shunting/leaning out on cruise
shunting/leaning out on cruise
Author
Discussion

tvrkev

Original Poster:

4 posts

188 months

Thursday 17th March 2011
quotequote all
can anyone put me in the right direction. i have a 2000 model 450. when cruising at all speeds mainly lower though 35-45 mph is worst she is what appears to going lean, the only other way i can discribe it is this, if it was a carburettor car then i would feel as if it were a blocked air jet making it surge on cruise. when i just tickle throttle lean out goes, back to cruise and fault is back, being in the trade i am reluctent to throw lots of parts at it, have replaced plugs,caps,leads,rotor,coil already but i need to dig further i think. i have been told this can be normal, no way is this normal.any help would be appreciated.

scruggs

419 posts

197 months

Thursday 17th March 2011
quotequote all
Not exactly clear as to what the problem is but the usual answer around here is 'clean the stepper motor'.

I did this for the first time a few days ago and it made a world of difference to the smooth running and response of the car.

(My stepper was completely black with soot and looked like it had never been touched in the cars life)

A real quick and easy job provided you have a big enough spanner to unscrew it!

phillpot

17,523 posts

214 months

Friday 18th March 2011
quotequote all
tvrkev said:
I have been told this can be normal.
Not normal but is a common problem, if you search "shunting" you'll find
heaps of advice, suggestions and cures that work for some and not for others.

blitzracing

6,422 posts

251 months

Friday 18th March 2011
quotequote all
Its basically down to the use of a plenum chamber with a long duration cam, so exhaust gets pumped back up into the plenum during the valve overlap and contaminates the fresh air being drawn into the cylinders. All the various "cures" involve reducing this effect, be it forcing the engine to run a bit richer, (not running the catalyst fuel map), adding plenum volume with a spacer, improving spark and / or timing to improve the burn with better HT components, or replacing the whole ECU and removing the AFM that does not work well with a longer duration cam at low speed. Mind you not even this is guaranteed to cure the issue, as ultimately you would be better off with separate throttle bodies so you dont get the cross contamination in the first place.

TVR Beaver

2,874 posts

211 months

Friday 18th March 2011
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biggrin

nigelb450

14 posts

222 months

Friday 18th March 2011
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I had this problem when I bought my 450 last year. After looking at most other things it turned out to be my Vacuum Advance on the distributor leaking. I've replaced that and its much better now. May be worth a look and there are insructions on checking the vac advance if you search on here.

Cheers,
Nigel

dog man

552 posts

233 months

Friday 18th March 2011
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what is that custom intake!! I want one!

tvrkev

Original Poster:

4 posts

188 months

Friday 18th March 2011
quotequote all
have cleaned the steeper which i must say quite clean too. will check all the other bits and pieces you guys have advised me on to do. I try to overlook it but it gets annoying when cruising

tvrkev

Original Poster:

4 posts

188 months

Friday 18th March 2011
quotequote all
TVR BEAVER. you have placed a pic of a plenum and two fuel bodies, are you saying this is a fix to the fault.

carsy

3,019 posts

196 months

Friday 18th March 2011
quotequote all
From what i can gather the only real cure for shunting is to fit after market ecu which can be properly mapped, fuel and spark.

I have also read that fitting a carb such as the Webber 500 can sort things. I know several on here have done and have good things to say about it. I know many are going to say fitting a carb is a step back 20yrs, but an aweful lot of threads on here are about running problems associated with the ecu and injection system. After all these componenets are a good few years old now and probably past their best.

blitzracing

6,422 posts

251 months

Friday 18th March 2011
quotequote all
A good part of the gains from fitting an after market ECU is you can remove the emission compliance that the 14CUX sticks to rigidly, and set the mixture thats best for the engine, not minimum pollutants. The Pre 1992 ECU set up did just this, but without the modern use of wide band lambda feedback, so it wont adapt if its mapping is not correct to start with, and it does need the correct chip to get the best out of it. As a simple test you can change the tune resistor under the dash to 470 ohms to switch fuel maps to the non catalyst mode, and then set a suitable idle / low speed mixture with the CO trim adjustment on the side of the AFM. This controls the mixture up to around 2400 rpm. Its OK for low speed testing, but you are likely to switch to a Range Rover fuel map so you do need to check the mixture at higher loads, or get an after market chip. I would think TVR power should have a range on non catalyst chips, or there is the Mark Adams Tornado range for more pennies. I don't know how well the physical catalysts will respond ( as in overheating) to the wider mixture ranges however if you run in non cat mode.

TVR Beaver

2,874 posts

211 months

Saturday 19th March 2011
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tvrkev said:
TVR BEAVER. you have placed a pic of a plenum and two fuel bodies, are you saying this is a fix to the fault.
Yes.. as Mark said above... It's overlap on cam's usualy feeding back into the Plenum and cross-contamination to other cylinders.... The option I pictured would solve it for sure... as your seperating the two banks
laugh

seriously... there are a few threads running on this now on here and the Griff section... good luck,, shunting is a pain!!

tvrkev

Original Poster:

4 posts

188 months

Monday 21st March 2011
quotequote all
thanks to everyone for all the info that has been given. i have found a local guy who deals in remapping & programming of ecu,s. gonna get in contact with him this week. your help has pointed me in the right direction for my problem too.

kev

v8 racing

2,064 posts

282 months

Monday 21st March 2011
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seperating the runners is the biggest improvement you can do on driveability, without being silly you can run a stupid race cam on individual runners and it will drive like a 1.0 fiesta!

Pupp

13,022 posts

303 months

Monday 21st March 2011
quotequote all
TVR Beaver said:
The option I pictured would solve it for sure... as your seperating the two banks
It's about as good as you'll get short of individual throttle bodies but it won't fully remove the problem assuming the firing order and angles remain as is. Top bit of lateral thinking 'though and the owner, and fabricator, are both regulars here smile

Did anyone ever develop out the RV8 throttle body setup that Jools/Raceproved were working on? That looked sweet...

v8 racing

2,064 posts

282 months

Monday 21st March 2011
quotequote all
Pupp said:
TVR Beaver said:
The option I pictured would solve it for sure... as your seperating the two banks
It's about as good as you'll get short of individual throttle bodies but it won't fully remove the problem assuming the firing order and angles remain as is. Top bit of lateral thinking 'though and the owner, and fabricator, are both regulars here smile

Did anyone ever develop out the RV8 throttle body setup that Jools/Raceproved were working on? That looked sweet...
to be honest that was actually done back in the eigthies by nck, original builders of the tvr engine, downside was the cost and nobody really wanted to pay for it, i think times have changed a bit and maybe there is a market for it?

Pupp

13,022 posts

303 months

Monday 21st March 2011
quotequote all
v8 racing said:
to be honest that was actually done back in the eigthies by nck, original builders of the tvr engine, downside was the cost and nobody really wanted to pay for it, i think times have changed a bit and maybe there is a market for it?
Well, short of a mackled up bike donored set-up, it looks like about £3k+ is the TB cost of entry with a decent inlet manifold. Something that sits where the normal trumpet base lives but incorporates either butterflies or guillotine slides for maybe half(ish) that would walk out the door I'd say.

'til then, I'll just drive round the shunts smile

blitzracing

6,422 posts

251 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2011
quotequote all
tvrkev said:
thanks to everyone for all the info that has been given. i have found a local guy who deals in remapping & programming of ecu,s. gonna get in contact with him this week. your help has pointed me in the right direction for my problem too.

kev
Id be very surprised if he can do the 14CUX mapping, as its pretty unique,and Im certainly only aware of a couple of places in the UK that can do it, and even then mapping is unlikely to be the answer, or a suitable map would have been done years ago.

blitzracing

6,422 posts

251 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2011
quotequote all
TVR Beaver said:


biggrin
I tried using silicon rubber hoses for home made manifolds when fitting bike carbs to Fiat engines but the problem was the pipe used to collapse on the overun, so I had to fit a number of internal metal bands to hold it open. Once that was sorted it worked well enough.smile