PCCB Brake problems

[TopBear]

So they aren't that fantastic after all!
www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=46530

[GregE240]

Well documented on both here and Rennlist:

Eg:

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=68271&f=48&h=0&hw=pccb

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=90689&f=48&h=0&hw=pccb

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=79741&f=48&h=0&hw=pccb

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=68072&f=48&h=0&hw=pccb

Few there to keep you going!

[diver944]

I did a trackday at Donington yesterday where there was also a GT3RS with PCCB. Once I realised this I kept a close eye on them after every session

We both did over 200 track miles and visually his looked identical at the end of the day, and he wasn't pussy footing around. I'm glad I don't have to pay the replacement cost when they do wear out though

[trampas]

I have pccbs on my GT3RS, which has now done 9500 miles including 7 trackdays...as yet no problems...and i must say they outperfom any other brakes I've had.
In the same sort of mileage and track use on my M3 i got through three lots of front discs,one rear set...and god knows how many sets of pads....so dare i say it but so far the pccbs are working for me!

[diver944]

Excellent news Trampas, we don't get many posts saying that PCCB are lasting well.

Purely me speculating but I wonder if 'some' of the problems have been caused by people over braking purely because they know they have PCCB, and hence accelerating the wear?

[trampas]

what i was told...not by porsche....but by parrs(who should know what they are on about)was that high temps weren't a problem but quick temp changes are...so i've always been wary to spend a lap or two bringing them up to temp properly...then used them hard....and it seems to have worked for me....the guy at parrs did also tell me....what any sane minded person should realise...and that is nothing is indestructible....abuse them and you lose them!.....

As a comparison at bedford in my M3 after 5 0r 6 lively laps of the GT circuit the brakes would have had enough and need cooling right off.....in the GT3RS with pccb....i get tired before the brakes do...15/20 laps would not be a problem...so i feel i'm getting value out of my car on trackdays.....but i'm very aware...that going fast costs me money...it always has...and it always will, be it brakes,tyres whatever...

[dazren]

trampas said:

....the guy at parrs did also tell me....what any sane minded person should realise...and that is nothing is indestructible....abuse them and you lose them!.....

Trampas, I am delighted that you are not experiencing problems with your PCCB discs, with the useage you are putting them under. However when I bought my 996 turbo I was advised that the PCCB system was the mutts nuts, that they would outperform standard brakes and last the life of the car. At the time of speccing the car, knowing I would be doing the occasional trackday, I ordered them. Porsche then refused to fit them to my car as they had a shortage of supply which was holding up production of GT2s. Having been through the number of steel discs that I have done, I am clearly a lunatic and thank christ Porsche wouldn't let me have the PCCB system which would have cost £14k per axle to replace.

I am glad that Porsche are at the forefront of technology and offering their customers options on their braking systems, but I am annoyed at the number of my fellow enthusiasts that have been told they are indestrucable, bought them and finding they are now falling apart. The words of someone at Parr are an irrelevance, in comparison to the Porsche literature and their salesmen at the time these people ordered/specced their cars.

DAZ

Ps - This post wasn't meant to sound pi$$y, merely pointing out many people bought cars with the system and were told at the time of purchase that they were indestructable.

>> Edited by dazren on Sunday 9th May 00:32

[Butzi]

Don't mean to be ignorant but nothing is indistructable if not used as intended. PCCB are specially designed for a very specific function, and if used properly and as designed, I'm sure Trampas can witness the effectiveness of it. Porsche tries to make a car that's good for most things, but at the end of the day it's a high performance sports car. A highly specialised tool needs some knowledge to make it work. Just because one spends enough mony on it dosen't mean one can do whatever and however, and still expect 100% performance. Just my personal view with no experience of PCCB whatsoever, so don't shoot me!!

[trampas]

I can understand fully how cheated some people would feel...Porsche definately over sold some of the benefits of the pccb....all i can lend to the discussion is my personal experience and that so far has been positive...it may be that when they do need replacing my opinion might change.....but so far they are perfoming well and allowing me to do what i love and thats driving the car like a hooligan

[danhay]

dazren said:

Having been through the number of steel discs that I have done, I am clearly a lunatic and thank christ Porsche wouldn't let me have the PCCB system which would have cost £14k per axle to replace.

There was an article in last week's Autocar about the PCCB problems and they quoted the replacement cost as £27k all round!
...and I had thought this was a misprint!

Does anyone know if this is a generic problem with carbon brakes so would affect a 360CS for instance?
Or is it just the PCCB system?

[trampas]

The front pads for my car are less than a friends GT3RS fitted with steels and running pagid pads.....the pccb discs are now available through porsche at £2200+vat service exchange each.....still not cheap but not as horrific as some of the prices bandied about....

[GuyR]

The recent reduction in price and the availability of cheaper exchange discs has helped, but they are still £5k per pair including VAT.

As for GT3RS discs, how do they differ from ordinary GT3 discs, which cost about £600 per pair?

Guy (whose 2nd set of PCCB seem to be wearing better)

PS The £27,000 was what Porsche quoted me personally when they replaced my PCCBs last year (that used to be their list price for new parts)..........

>> Edited by GuyR on Monday 10th May 17:37

[trampas]

GuyR said:

The recent reduction in price and the availability of cheaper exchange discs has helped, but they are still £5k per pair including VAT. As for GT3RS discs, how do they differ from ordinary GT3 discs, which cost about £600 per pair? Guy (whose 2nd set of PCCB seem to be wearing better) PS The £27,000 was what Porsche quoted me personally when they replaced my PCCBs last year (that used to be their list price for new parts).......... Not sure if there is any difference between an RS and standard GT3 disc....it was the pads that struck me as cheap(ish) 190 quid for the pccbs...against 300 odd for porsche fitment pagids >> Edited by GuyR on Monday 10th May 17:37

[GetCarter]

As many here know, I was on the point of fitting PCCB's to my 2003 X50 - but was told in no uncertain terms by Porsche that they were experiencing some big problems, so I bottled out (and had several weeks in the Seychelles for the same cost).

Having today done coast to coast and back in the Highlands on std discs, I'm can't fault the setup for road. Brakes were as sharp after 170 miles of 'spirited' driving as they were at the start.

Thanks to Z rated tyres (and the 1100 cc bike that kept me company).

Only done one track trash, so can't really comment on fade - a 'track mate' has a 996 GT3 and after several track days he seems happy - says they get VERY hot, but I think one would really have to hoon to break them up.

I really hope the PCCB's do the biz. As has been said, Porsche deserve credit for the punt.

Steve