Non-Law Graduate - Routes Into Law?
Discussion
Evening all,
Bit of background: Coming to the end of my BSc (Hons) in Biology and have been predicted a 2:1 or higher (from a Russell Group University). Decent GCSE/A-Levels coupled with various extra-curricular interests and hobbies. Right, that's the really dull stuff out the way.
I've been looking at routes into the various city law firms over the last few months. It appears as though GDL/LPC is the standard route.
I'm applying for TC's with a number of firms, but feel as though my lack of any law work experience may count against me. I have work experience (both full time job and unpaid shadowing), but it's in the Market Research and Pharmaceutical arena. Therefore, I'm not all that hopeful that I'll secure a TC (and hence GDL/LPC funding) at this time. I think that were I to get to the interview stage, I could give a good account of myself and demonstrate an interest coupled with the mandatory 'commercial awareness'. It's just getting to the interview stage that presents the problem.
So the question is, if (as I suspect), a TC (and hence GDL/LPC sponsorship) is not forthcoming at this stage, is it worth doing the GDL/LPC off my own back? I believe I'd be sufficiently motivated to do well, and the funding isn't a huge issue. But, would the top firms be interested in a pure science graduate who's gone on to convert? Or, would it be the case that I'd spend two years and a heap of money on the GDL/LPC, to be in for a rather unpleasant surprise when it comes to looking for jobs afterwards?
Any tips on what's particularly 'sought after' at the moment graduate wise? Any insider tips on the best ways in? Any things I really should or should not be doing?
As always, Pistonheads' wisdom and advice much appreciated!
Bit of background: Coming to the end of my BSc (Hons) in Biology and have been predicted a 2:1 or higher (from a Russell Group University). Decent GCSE/A-Levels coupled with various extra-curricular interests and hobbies. Right, that's the really dull stuff out the way.
I've been looking at routes into the various city law firms over the last few months. It appears as though GDL/LPC is the standard route.
I'm applying for TC's with a number of firms, but feel as though my lack of any law work experience may count against me. I have work experience (both full time job and unpaid shadowing), but it's in the Market Research and Pharmaceutical arena. Therefore, I'm not all that hopeful that I'll secure a TC (and hence GDL/LPC funding) at this time. I think that were I to get to the interview stage, I could give a good account of myself and demonstrate an interest coupled with the mandatory 'commercial awareness'. It's just getting to the interview stage that presents the problem.
So the question is, if (as I suspect), a TC (and hence GDL/LPC sponsorship) is not forthcoming at this stage, is it worth doing the GDL/LPC off my own back? I believe I'd be sufficiently motivated to do well, and the funding isn't a huge issue. But, would the top firms be interested in a pure science graduate who's gone on to convert? Or, would it be the case that I'd spend two years and a heap of money on the GDL/LPC, to be in for a rather unpleasant surprise when it comes to looking for jobs afterwards?
Any tips on what's particularly 'sought after' at the moment graduate wise? Any insider tips on the best ways in? Any things I really should or should not be doing?
As always, Pistonheads' wisdom and advice much appreciated!
davepoth said:
If you really want to be a solicitor then you need an LPC, end of. If someone won't pay you to do it you'll need to fund it yourself. Try and get some work experience in a legal office first though.
Yeah, pretty much accepted that I need GDL/LPC (be it though sponsorship or my own funding). But, I want to ensure that, given my educational history, employment prospects will be favourable at the end of it. Perfectly prepared to put in the time/effort/cash, provided the top firms will be interested in a Biology graduate who's converted. If it's a case of "top law firms aren't interested in life science graduates", then I'd probably best focus my efforts elsewhere.Have been (indirectly) offered some law work experience this summer, so am looking to take that up to strengthen any future apps.
Sensible firms and chambers are interested in good graduates regardless of their undergraduate degree subject. A science degree is almost a requisite for specialist practice in hard IP (patents and trademarks). Another option to consider is training as a Patent Attorney.
You will need a first or a good 2.1 to be competitive in applications for City firms or Premier League chambers.
You will need a first or a good 2.1 to be competitive in applications for City firms or Premier League chambers.
Breadvan73 said:
Sensible firms and chambers are interested in good graduates regardless of their undergraduate degree subject. A science degree is almost a requisite for specialist practice in hard IP (patents and trademarks). Another option to consider is training as a Patent Attorney.
You will need a first or a good 2.1 to be competitive in applications for City firms or Premier League chambers.
Encouraging stuff. I had considered patent law (been doing a bit of it in my final year project), but need to examine it further to ensure that I wouldn't become "bored" by it.You will need a first or a good 2.1 to be competitive in applications for City firms or Premier League chambers.
Should be fine (*touches wood*) grades wise - averaging high 2:1 half way through final year exams, with strongest modules yet to come.
OP, I don't think a science background will put off employers as the skills needed are beneficial in law as well.
Additionally, the GDL is quite comprehensive so you'll pick up the grounding you need at this point.
Regarding the training contracts, the majority of people will be self funded, as its only really the larger firms who will sponsor you through the professional stages, the remainder will usually recruit people who are LPC qualified.
I'll be honest though, the legal graduate recruitment market is extremely tough at present. One chap I know had a training contract with a regional firm, had completed his gdl and lpc and they then decided to slash their intake by 75% after having made offers. Poor chap was basically made redundant before his first day in the office, as were 12-15 others!
It's well paid if you can get into a decent firm, but as above, bloody tough to do so.
Additionally, the GDL is quite comprehensive so you'll pick up the grounding you need at this point.
Regarding the training contracts, the majority of people will be self funded, as its only really the larger firms who will sponsor you through the professional stages, the remainder will usually recruit people who are LPC qualified.
I'll be honest though, the legal graduate recruitment market is extremely tough at present. One chap I know had a training contract with a regional firm, had completed his gdl and lpc and they then decided to slash their intake by 75% after having made offers. Poor chap was basically made redundant before his first day in the office, as were 12-15 others!
It's well paid if you can get into a decent firm, but as above, bloody tough to do so.
Thanks for the advice chaps.
Tonker:
Already applied for various summer placements with the big firms (although most deadlines have now passed for this year). If nothing comes of them, I'll seek experience at some of the smaller, local firms. Any law experience is better than no law experience, right? Leeds? In the current climate, I'd consider Bradford.
From what I've heard from a couple of friends currently enrolled on it, the GDL is serious amounts of work (not necessarily stupidly mentally taxing, but sheer volume of information). They've informed me that a part time job whilst undertaking the GDL would be "unwise", considering the time pressures. But, us students do effectively get three month long summer holidays, so I should hopefully be able to build up a decent amount of relevant work experience by the time I finish the LPC.
H_Kan:
Good to know the Life Science background hopefully won't be a stumbling block.
As for the graduate job market - I'm not too disheartened/shocked by that; seems to be the case in pretty much every industry at the moment. Have looked at graduate positions in the pharmaceutical market - almost nobody is recruiting and prospects are terrible. I know friends who've been offered cash not to take up the position they were offered and to defer entry for a year. Having been invited to a couple of assessment days for various industries, I'm well aware of just how tough it is out there and just how strong the competition is (despite various segments of the media asserting that all graduates are now mouth breathers!)
Tonker:
Already applied for various summer placements with the big firms (although most deadlines have now passed for this year). If nothing comes of them, I'll seek experience at some of the smaller, local firms. Any law experience is better than no law experience, right? Leeds? In the current climate, I'd consider Bradford.
From what I've heard from a couple of friends currently enrolled on it, the GDL is serious amounts of work (not necessarily stupidly mentally taxing, but sheer volume of information). They've informed me that a part time job whilst undertaking the GDL would be "unwise", considering the time pressures. But, us students do effectively get three month long summer holidays, so I should hopefully be able to build up a decent amount of relevant work experience by the time I finish the LPC.
H_Kan:
Good to know the Life Science background hopefully won't be a stumbling block.
As for the graduate job market - I'm not too disheartened/shocked by that; seems to be the case in pretty much every industry at the moment. Have looked at graduate positions in the pharmaceutical market - almost nobody is recruiting and prospects are terrible. I know friends who've been offered cash not to take up the position they were offered and to defer entry for a year. Having been invited to a couple of assessment days for various industries, I'm well aware of just how tough it is out there and just how strong the competition is (despite various segments of the media asserting that all graduates are now mouth breathers!)
I did a BSc degree in Chemistry at Bath University and I am now a trainee solicitor.
Go for it, but apply early for sponsorship through the GDL and LPC or it will be a costly move with no guaranteed job at the end of it.
With your back ground, have a look into IP law or firms with strong life sciences background - A science degree has been known to put people in good stead. Consider an in house training contract as well, some pharma companies do this.
You should get all your options for the GDL, from what I've heard - if your willing to pay, you have a place. I went for College of Law (Birmingham), I couldnt fault it.
Go for it, but apply early for sponsorship through the GDL and LPC or it will be a costly move with no guaranteed job at the end of it.
With your back ground, have a look into IP law or firms with strong life sciences background - A science degree has been known to put people in good stead. Consider an in house training contract as well, some pharma companies do this.
You should get all your options for the GDL, from what I've heard - if your willing to pay, you have a place. I went for College of Law (Birmingham), I couldnt fault it.
Edited by StephenDJM on Tuesday 22 March 13:32
wiffmaster said:
From what I've heard from a couple of friends currently enrolled on it, the GDL is serious amounts of work (not necessarily stupidly mentally taxing, but sheer volume of information). They've informed me that a part time job whilst undertaking the GDL would be "unwise", considering the time pressures. But, us students do effectively get three month long summer holidays, so I should hopefully be able to build up a decent amount of relevant work experience by the time I finish the LPC.
I would agree with this, none of it is mentally taxing, but it is purely the volume that can get to some people. The LPC is a holiday in comparison.Most of the schools you have listed have pro-bono activities. Get involved in these, helps for the CV. Mentoring schemes are offered aswell, such schemes got me some good placements at top firms and contacts I still have today.
StephenDJM said:
I did a BSc degree in Chemistry at Bath University and I am now a trainee solicitor.
Go for it, but apply early for sponsorship through the GDL and LPC or it will be a costly move with no guaranteed job at the end of it.
With your back ground, have a look into IP law or firms with strong life sciences background - A science degree has been known to put people in good stead.
You should get all your options for the GDL, from what I've heard - if your willing to pay, you have a place. I went for College of Law (Birmingham), I couldnt fault it.
This is all good to know. Although I've applied to do the GDL/LPC off my own back, I'm still applying to various firms in the hope of gaining sponsorship. Mainly targeting the firms that I know have a strong life sciences link, as I think they represent my best chance. Although in the current climate and with my lack of relevant work experience (to be rectified this summer, hopefully) I'm realistic about my chances of gaining GDL/LPC sponsorship at this stage. Go for it, but apply early for sponsorship through the GDL and LPC or it will be a costly move with no guaranteed job at the end of it.
With your back ground, have a look into IP law or firms with strong life sciences background - A science degree has been known to put people in good stead.
You should get all your options for the GDL, from what I've heard - if your willing to pay, you have a place. I went for College of Law (Birmingham), I couldnt fault it.
wiffmaster said:
This is all good to know. Although I've applied to do the GDL/LPC off my own back, I'm still applying to various firms in the hope of gaining sponsorship. Mainly targeting the firms that I know have a strong life sciences link, as I think they represent my best chance. Although in the current climate and with my lack of relevant work experience (to be rectified this summer, hopefully) I'm realistic about my chances of gaining GDL/LPC sponsorship at this stage.
http://www.legal500.com/c/london/tmt-technology-media-and-telecoms/pharmaceuticals-and-biotechnology#paragraph_12869Might be useful to know the leading firms in that area.
As for sponsorship, only about 10%(Max) of those on the GDL had sponsorship so i wouldnt worry about it.
Make use of the careers service at the college and they will help pad your CV out/tidy up applications...
StephenDJM said:
http://www.legal500.com/c/london/tmt-technology-me...
Might be useful to know the leading firms in that area.
As for sponsorship, only about 10%(Max) of those on the GDL had sponsorship so i wouldnt worry about it.
Make use of the careers service at the college and they will help pad your CV out/tidy up applications...
Top link and great advice - cheers.Might be useful to know the leading firms in that area.
As for sponsorship, only about 10%(Max) of those on the GDL had sponsorship so i wouldnt worry about it.
Make use of the careers service at the college and they will help pad your CV out/tidy up applications...
My old man worked in the pharmaceutical industry for decades, so I've been asking him which firms they used to use for legal work. Already had quite a few of those on that Legal 500 list in my sights, but have added a few more now.
wiffmaster said:
Top link and great advice - cheers.
My old man worked in the pharmaceutical industry for decades, so I've been asking him which firms they used to use for legal work. Already had quite a few of those on that Legal 500 list in my sights, but have added a few more now.
No problem.My old man worked in the pharmaceutical industry for decades, so I've been asking him which firms they used to use for legal work. Already had quite a few of those on that Legal 500 list in my sights, but have added a few more now.
Get in touch with your old man, see what connections he has, Law is a career where 'who you know' can make a massive difference. Exploit your contacts. If you have any other questions let me know but I wouldn't worry about non law degrees, they are very highly regarded.
Edited by StephenDJM on Tuesday 22 March 22:32
StephenDJM said:
No problem.
Get in touch with your old man, see what connections he has, Law is a career where 'who you know' makes a massive difference. Exploit your contacts. If you have any other questions let me know but I wouldn't worry about non law degrees, they are very highly regarded.
Already exploiting those contacts and they're already proving useful. The other day, he was talking with one of his friends from a firm mentioned in that Legal 500 list. The subject of kids/university came up and Dad casually mentioned that I was looking into law. The chap said "if he wants a bit of work experience, I can sort him out". Which was nice - planning on taking it up this summer. He's also worked closely with a fair few of the largish London firms over the years and still works with a couple of them - maybe something will come of that if I'm lucky.Get in touch with your old man, see what connections he has, Law is a career where 'who you know' makes a massive difference. Exploit your contacts. If you have any other questions let me know but I wouldn't worry about non law degrees, they are very highly regarded.
I feel like such a numpty using "daddy's contacts" to try and get ahead of the competition. But, seeing as it's so tough out there at the moment (coupled with the fact that everyone who has those contacts will also be attempting to exploit them), means that it has to be done.
Breadvan73 said:
I disagree with the idea that "who you know" or nepotism are influential in the best law firms and chambers. My place operates a strict and fiercely competitive meritocracy, as do most of our competitors.
This is actually reassuring to know. Provided I continue to work/achieve as I have historically, I would hope to make it under a 100% meritocratic system. Still, some of these firms don't seem to have conventional 'vacation schemes' and the like. If contacts mean I can spend a few days shadowing somebody, then so much the better.Breadvan73 said:
I disagree with the idea that "who you know" or nepotism are influential in the best law firms and chambers. My place operates a strict and fiercely competitive meritocracy, as do most of our competitors.
I was referring to exploiting contacts in order to gain work experience to flesh out the CV for the formal application process.One more question if I may chaps:
Looking at all the major firms, they're recruiting two years in advance. In other words, if I apply now with just a BSc under my belt, my TC would start in 2013 after they've funded the GDL/LPC. But, there's not a huge chance of them wanting me at this current stage, with my lack of relevant work experience.
So, how does this work if I were to apply in 2013 after having completed my GDL/LPC and gaining relevant experience? Since none of the major firms seem to recruit to "start this year", does it mean that I'd just have to sit around for two years doing other jobs and waiting for my TC to start?
Cheers.
Looking at all the major firms, they're recruiting two years in advance. In other words, if I apply now with just a BSc under my belt, my TC would start in 2013 after they've funded the GDL/LPC. But, there's not a huge chance of them wanting me at this current stage, with my lack of relevant work experience.
So, how does this work if I were to apply in 2013 after having completed my GDL/LPC and gaining relevant experience? Since none of the major firms seem to recruit to "start this year", does it mean that I'd just have to sit around for two years doing other jobs and waiting for my TC to start?
Cheers.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Don't get me wrong - I'm still applying this year in the hope of securing something. Always wise to have a backup though, so was just wondering what happens TC wise if you do the GDL/LPC without sponsorship. In that scenario, surely there's a way into the big firms that doesn't involve me doing odd jobs for two years?Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff