Snowdonia National Park Off-Limits to Cars!!!
Discussion
Not that we didn't see it coming, but
quote:Courtesy of ABD Mailing List...
"Snowdonia Green Key" strategy.
This includes the curtailment of roadside parking by forcing people to pay to leave their cars at one of the 'gateway towns' on the periphery of the National
Park and catch a bus to their destination inside the Park. It does not address the issue of oversize coaches that probably cause the only traffic jams in the area. Nor does it suggest how walkers and climbers who want to set off in the early morning or who get back to the bus routes late are to be transported. Nor how do you get your canoe or bicycle on the bus if you want to use those 'green' forms of transport in the Park. And what about passing traffic that just wants to stop to take a photograph or to buy something in a shop in Capel Curig or Beddgelert?
Mixed up with the 'green' ideas are proposals "to erect gateway structures on the approaches" and discussion of bus shelters. The Scheme is seeking a grant of £9million from a European Fund to carry out the proposals. A further grant application is to be made for new building on top of Snowdon itself.
Further details
Official site:
Gwynedd Council
www.gwynedd.gov.uk/adrannau/economaidd/Green_key/index.english.htm
Including response forms in Word and PDF format.
Local residents and visitors campaigning against this absurd scheme:
'Freedom to Choose' at www.snowdonia2002.fsnet.co.uk
Letters on the topic to:
Gwenllian Owens,
Project officer,
Snowdonia Green Key,
Planning and Economic Development Department,
Council Offices,
Caernarfon,
Gwynedd
LL55 1SH
mailto:GwenllianOwens@gwynedd.gov.uk
tel 01286 679513 fax 01286 673324
Mr G Iwan Huws,
Chief Executive,
Snowdonia National Park,
Penrhyndeudraeth,
Gwynedd
LL48 6LF
Sue Essex,
Minister for Environment,
The National Assembly for Wales,
Cardiff Bay,
Cardiff
CF99 1NA
mailto:sue.essex@wales.gov.uk
Also consider writing to your MP. www.faxyourmp.com
Brilliant! Absolute genius!
As you say - all good & well for those travelling at the right times, and spending more than a day trip in the place, but otherwise totally impractical.
So now when you're out there on the hills, running a little late, it's not just the fading daylight you've got to worry about, but missing the last bus too!
As you say - all good & well for those travelling at the right times, and spending more than a day trip in the place, but otherwise totally impractical.
So now when you're out there on the hills, running a little late, it's not just the fading daylight you've got to worry about, but missing the last bus too!
Does anyone know if this includes includes the parking near Llyn Ogwen on the A5?
I use the M54/A5 route from the South regularly to visit my parents on Anglesey. Although the route isn't quicker than the M56/A55 its much more scenic and provides a wonderful "top-down" motoring opportunity.
I like to top that off with a swift stop by the lakeside to take in the view and stretch the legs.
It would be an unbelievable shame if that was prevented...I think I might just put the "park anywhere" lights on and stop in the middle of the f****g road like everyone else will....
Mad mad mad.
I use the M54/A5 route from the South regularly to visit my parents on Anglesey. Although the route isn't quicker than the M56/A55 its much more scenic and provides a wonderful "top-down" motoring opportunity.
I like to top that off with a swift stop by the lakeside to take in the view and stretch the legs.
It would be an unbelievable shame if that was prevented...I think I might just put the "park anywhere" lights on and stop in the middle of the f****g road like everyone else will....
Mad mad mad.
I almost ran a story on this after seeing the same posting on an ABD mailing list.
However, I read the documents on the website and whilst they're not exactly pro-car, they're not calling for an outright ban on cars like the text infers.
Read the blurb. It's not park and ride. The crap thing they're suggesting is limiting parking facilities not a ban on cars.
IMHO it's knee-jerk reactions to proposals like this are in danger of discrediting us pro-car people. If we keep things in perspective we've more chance of gaining the support of the general public. Otherwise we'll just be seens as ill-informed reactionaries.
However, I read the documents on the website and whilst they're not exactly pro-car, they're not calling for an outright ban on cars like the text infers.
Read the blurb. It's not park and ride. The crap thing they're suggesting is limiting parking facilities not a ban on cars.
IMHO it's knee-jerk reactions to proposals like this are in danger of discrediting us pro-car people. If we keep things in perspective we've more chance of gaining the support of the general public. Otherwise we'll just be seens as ill-informed reactionaries.
Why would anyone want to park for two hours in the middle of nowhere? They are going to look like right muppets when their car parks are standing empty.
Nothing wrong with putting in a decent bus system, but if it is such a great scheme it will naturally attract people away from parking in the middle of the park. It doesn't need to be enforced by offering no all day parking in the area.
If they are suprised that no one spends any money in the area, they should look at the quality of the facilities and how they are marketed. They are shite. I love the area, but places like Betws y Coed have really dropped the ball. It looks nice, but there is bugger all there and the hotels are crap, ergo I don't spend much cash.
If this scheme is so great, why isn't used anywhere else?
Nothing wrong with putting in a decent bus system, but if it is such a great scheme it will naturally attract people away from parking in the middle of the park. It doesn't need to be enforced by offering no all day parking in the area.
If they are suprised that no one spends any money in the area, they should look at the quality of the facilities and how they are marketed. They are shite. I love the area, but places like Betws y Coed have really dropped the ball. It looks nice, but there is bugger all there and the hotels are crap, ergo I don't spend much cash.
If this scheme is so great, why isn't used anywhere else?
Sure ... that's what I do too, but they're failing to extract any money from me. I usually drive in, walk all day and then bugger off. Sometimes I'll check into a hotel for one night in Betws y Coes, but the experience is usually pants. Compared this to going to the Lakes. Many really excellent hotels with outstanding food that are also very reasonably priced. Spend far too long mooching around towns like Kendal looking in all the kit shops. Then drive down to somewhere like the Langdale valley where there is loads of parking, hidden behind trees and reasonably priced with a pub on hand should you choose to part with some more wedge ... which you tend to do.
quote:
It's not park and ride. The crap thing they're suggesting is limiting parking facilities not a ban on cars.
The problem with doing this is you just know that all the places *worth* a stop will be the places targeted to have parking removed. So people will just park up dangerously.
Sure..if you've got a lovely new Porsche or TVR you won't park up anywhere except where its safe to leave it - but others won't care.
A balance has to be found between preserving the beauty of the park and providing access to it. So...exactly what was wrong with the status quo? Just leave the amount of parking there is and don't add any more. Simple isn't it. Everybody's happy - and it doesn't cost a bean.
quote:
IMHO it's knee-jerk reactions to proposals like this are in danger of discrediting us pro-car people.
Agreed. Foaming at the mouth does no good at all. Look at how *we* react to the foaming greens...and they at least *do* have *some* good points!
quote:
IMHO it's knee-jerk reactions to proposals like this are in danger of discrediting us pro-car people. If we keep things in perspective we've more chance of gaining the support of the general public. Otherwise we'll just be seens as ill-informed reactionaries.
The answer to such things is to let them happen. then wait for the area to go tits up economically. The way to do your bit on this one is to just not go there. Have a look at the European funding criteria, then report any fraud that is evident and check to see which companies are involved as sponsors and boycott their products. Making a lot of noise will do no good, these muppets have to learn a bit of reality.
You're right Ted, and I hope you don't feel usurped by my posting .. 
OTOH, my experience is that the crowd here are by & large a reasonable and clever bunch who are capable of making their own judgement. Links are included to the pertinent regional sites for people to judge the information for themselves. However, there is an official response form available, which I suppose makes the ABD's publishing of all those email addresses rather heavy handed.
Really, I think it's one thing for people to rant on here about it - at best a good thing, at worst a necessary evil - but it's another thing altogether to enter into correspondence with the powers that be. I think we generally all realise that this requires a somewhat more delicate and informed touch....
So, I won't wear my PH jacket when I'm slinging leeks at their town hall windows
OTOH, my experience is that the crowd here are by & large a reasonable and clever bunch who are capable of making their own judgement. Links are included to the pertinent regional sites for people to judge the information for themselves. However, there is an official response form available, which I suppose makes the ABD's publishing of all those email addresses rather heavy handed.
Really, I think it's one thing for people to rant on here about it - at best a good thing, at worst a necessary evil - but it's another thing altogether to enter into correspondence with the powers that be. I think we generally all realise that this requires a somewhat more delicate and informed touch....
So, I won't wear my PH jacket when I'm slinging leeks at their town hall windows
I saw this somewhere else a while back and emailed the appropriate people. I questioned them as to whether their park and ride would be fully adapted for wheelchair use (being on four wheels more than most!).
I explained that I would need full access to get my wheels on and off their buses, also being able to stop whenever I felt ill, which happens often.
I have done a lot of years climbing in Snowdonia and still like to go back to see old friends now and again, if I am not to be allowed to use my car, I will insist on them making every facility fully accessible for me. That should cost the buggers enough to think again.
I seemed to have woken someone up, as after a couple of weeks I received replies explaining that the "consultation period" had been extended.
I explained that I would need full access to get my wheels on and off their buses, also being able to stop whenever I felt ill, which happens often.
I have done a lot of years climbing in Snowdonia and still like to go back to see old friends now and again, if I am not to be allowed to use my car, I will insist on them making every facility fully accessible for me. That should cost the buggers enough to think again.
I seemed to have woken someone up, as after a couple of weeks I received replies explaining that the "consultation period" had been extended.
This is pretty much what was in operation during last year whilst the Foot and Mouth epidemic was being dealt with. It seemed to work OK. There were lots of pick up points and seemed to be a lot of parking. The buses were running from very early to late as far as I could tell.
I found it pretty good for driving because their were less numpties at the passes. Also, I think the areas at the trailheads were safer, because without all the cars at jaunty angles the view was clearer and the carriageway clear. Also, there were less folks walking up the road from parking spots.
I don't see this as an anti-car measure per se, more as an opportunist cash generating scheme. By bringing the walkers in to the area towns, they hope to earn more cash.
North Wales is a poor area and Snowdonia is dependent on tourist income for much of its livelihood.TBH, I'm all for it, although I take onboard the points on access for all.
Justin
I found it pretty good for driving because their were less numpties at the passes. Also, I think the areas at the trailheads were safer, because without all the cars at jaunty angles the view was clearer and the carriageway clear. Also, there were less folks walking up the road from parking spots.
I don't see this as an anti-car measure per se, more as an opportunist cash generating scheme. By bringing the walkers in to the area towns, they hope to earn more cash.
North Wales is a poor area and Snowdonia is dependent on tourist income for much of its livelihood.TBH, I'm all for it, although I take onboard the points on access for all.
Justin
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