4 x old Army watches / stopwatches - any ideas?
Discussion
Having a clearout - any ideas on value was going to put them on Ebay.
3 are ex Army and have an arrow stamped on the back.
The one with the roman numerals looks the most expensive as the case is silver hallmarked & dated 1937, says 'Ain' Watch Co inside.
2 are 'working' as in they are ticking but the hands etc have fallen off.
thought someone may want them for spares?
3 are ex Army and have an arrow stamped on the back.
The one with the roman numerals looks the most expensive as the case is silver hallmarked & dated 1937, says 'Ain' Watch Co inside.
2 are 'working' as in they are ticking but the hands etc have fallen off.
thought someone may want them for spares?
The GSTP (General Service Trade/Temporary Pattern) ones have an interesting, albeit niche, history:
http://www.knirim.homepage.t-online.de/taylor.htm
Good thread with some similar ones in better condition here - http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic...
I'd do a bit of digging first just in case you've got a rare one, chances are you haven't but it's a strange world and you never know.
Hopefully someone more useful will be along shortly, if not I'd post this in a more relevant forum perhaps?
ETA - here's a good thread; 'modest sum' is the critical part I think.
knirim said:
"Watches G.S.T.P. Or G.S./T.P.
Any collector of British issue watches will have several 19'" jewelled lever pocket instruments with their plated snap-on case-back engraved G.S.T.P. or G.S./T.P. Not uncommonly (and in a different style) some have also been later engraved with the name of one of the High Street jewellers. 'Bravingtons London', 4. I believe that practice to date from 1946-48, when the of Ministry of Supply sold off various surplus watches and clocks to a value exceeding £ 2.000.000. Opinions differ as to the meaning of 'T.P.' Röhner prefers 'Temporary Pattern'. My own preference is for Mr. W. P. Roseman's 'Trade Pattern'.
As carlier mentioned, the door had opened in 1903 to issue of watches "... of ordinary Trade Patterns...", but specific reference to Watches, G.S.T.P. Or G.S./T.P, was very uncommon in the literature I studied. Indeed, I remain uncertain as to which of the Swiss factories should be listed as suppliers of the movements. In supposing that the £ 3.664 spent overseas in Financial Year l936-37 was for G.S.T.P. Or G.S./T.P., the relevant report is not helpful. The entry reads: "Watches....Swiss. British supplies in excess of preference limits or unobtainable".
About all it seems safe to state here is, that Watches, G.S.T.P., 4, were collectively deleted from the 1954 List at February 3rd 1957, when Watches, G.S./T.P. branded Omega, Record, Cortebert, Lemania, Thommen, Recta, Buren, Doxa, Unitas and F.E.F. Were individually struck out, also.
However, bearing in mind that apparent discrepancies may be no more than the result of someone re-casing a movement, it seems worthwhile to mention that I have also encountered G.S.T.P, and GS/T.P. watches branded Damas (Beguelin), Cymy (Tavannes), Enicar (Fontainemelon), Helvetia (General Watch), Jaeger le Coultre, Montilier, Revue (Thommen) and Tissot (S.S.I.H.). In addition, of course there are also some American Waltham and Elgin pocket watches requiring explanation, whose only case-marking is a Broad Arrow, accompanied either by the movement number, or by a smaller secondary number, or by both. Movement numbers suggest a production in 1943 and 1944, but I have so far failed to trace any mention of them in my sources."
Interesting roll call of familiar names in there.Any collector of British issue watches will have several 19'" jewelled lever pocket instruments with their plated snap-on case-back engraved G.S.T.P. or G.S./T.P. Not uncommonly (and in a different style) some have also been later engraved with the name of one of the High Street jewellers. 'Bravingtons London', 4. I believe that practice to date from 1946-48, when the of Ministry of Supply sold off various surplus watches and clocks to a value exceeding £ 2.000.000. Opinions differ as to the meaning of 'T.P.' Röhner prefers 'Temporary Pattern'. My own preference is for Mr. W. P. Roseman's 'Trade Pattern'.
As carlier mentioned, the door had opened in 1903 to issue of watches "... of ordinary Trade Patterns...", but specific reference to Watches, G.S.T.P. Or G.S./T.P, was very uncommon in the literature I studied. Indeed, I remain uncertain as to which of the Swiss factories should be listed as suppliers of the movements. In supposing that the £ 3.664 spent overseas in Financial Year l936-37 was for G.S.T.P. Or G.S./T.P., the relevant report is not helpful. The entry reads: "Watches....Swiss. British supplies in excess of preference limits or unobtainable".
About all it seems safe to state here is, that Watches, G.S.T.P., 4, were collectively deleted from the 1954 List at February 3rd 1957, when Watches, G.S./T.P. branded Omega, Record, Cortebert, Lemania, Thommen, Recta, Buren, Doxa, Unitas and F.E.F. Were individually struck out, also.
However, bearing in mind that apparent discrepancies may be no more than the result of someone re-casing a movement, it seems worthwhile to mention that I have also encountered G.S.T.P, and GS/T.P. watches branded Damas (Beguelin), Cymy (Tavannes), Enicar (Fontainemelon), Helvetia (General Watch), Jaeger le Coultre, Montilier, Revue (Thommen) and Tissot (S.S.I.H.). In addition, of course there are also some American Waltham and Elgin pocket watches requiring explanation, whose only case-marking is a Broad Arrow, accompanied either by the movement number, or by a smaller secondary number, or by both. Movement numbers suggest a production in 1943 and 1944, but I have so far failed to trace any mention of them in my sources."
http://www.knirim.homepage.t-online.de/taylor.htm
Good thread with some similar ones in better condition here - http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic...
I'd do a bit of digging first just in case you've got a rare one, chances are you haven't but it's a strange world and you never know.
Hopefully someone more useful will be along shortly, if not I'd post this in a more relevant forum perhaps?
ETA - here's a good thread; 'modest sum' is the critical part I think.
horological said:
"Most experts believe the GS/TP stands for 'General Service/Trade Pattern' though you do find a reference here and there suggesting it could stand for 'General Service/Temporary Pattern' The Trade Pattern refers to the grade of the movement being a basic commercial design of the day rather than a design made for specific military standards and requirements. As you have found out, it is a British military watch. In addition to the GS/TP marking, it has the broad arrow marking. That is what the three line 'crow foot' symbol represents - an arrowhead. The broad arrow has been used on all sorts of British military equipment for a very long time.
GS/TP watches were made in very large quantities during the war (1939 - 1945) and on any given day you can find many for sale at modest prices on Ebay and in dealer's stocks.
These were made for and used by the British Army as a basic pocket watch for soldiers. The RAF and the Royal Navy watches have different markings for their services and while they also are not rare, they are not as plentiful as the Army watches.
GS/TP watches were supplied to the British by a many makers. I believe that the number below the GS/TP marking is the manufacturer's code letter followed by the serial number for that maker's production. All of the Helvetia ones I have seen have a P in the first position of the serial number so your's fits in and it should be the 26,813th (I think they started at 101 rather than 1) GS/TP pocket watch supplied by Helvetica to the UK Ministry of Defense. These were also issued by British Commonwealth countries' militaries, though most of those have an additional marking to indicate which Commonweath country issued it. For example, India would have a letter I above the GS/TP marking.
If you work on your watch, be careful not to disturb the yellow/brown luminous material on the hands or dial. It is radium and you do not want to inhale any dust. It will not glow in the dark, not because it is no longer almost as strong at it was the day it was made, but because the zinc sulphide it is mixed with has been oxidized by the energy in the radium over the years. It was the zinc sulphide that glowed and it was the tiny bit of radium mixed in with it that provided the energy to make it glow brightly. Even though there is very little radium in the paint, you do not want to get it down inside your body such as in your lungs by breathing its dust or ingesting it by getting some on your fingers then using your fingers to eat some food later."
http://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/990103944/m/8761037033GS/TP watches were made in very large quantities during the war (1939 - 1945) and on any given day you can find many for sale at modest prices on Ebay and in dealer's stocks.
These were made for and used by the British Army as a basic pocket watch for soldiers. The RAF and the Royal Navy watches have different markings for their services and while they also are not rare, they are not as plentiful as the Army watches.
GS/TP watches were supplied to the British by a many makers. I believe that the number below the GS/TP marking is the manufacturer's code letter followed by the serial number for that maker's production. All of the Helvetia ones I have seen have a P in the first position of the serial number so your's fits in and it should be the 26,813th (I think they started at 101 rather than 1) GS/TP pocket watch supplied by Helvetica to the UK Ministry of Defense. These were also issued by British Commonwealth countries' militaries, though most of those have an additional marking to indicate which Commonweath country issued it. For example, India would have a letter I above the GS/TP marking.
If you work on your watch, be careful not to disturb the yellow/brown luminous material on the hands or dial. It is radium and you do not want to inhale any dust. It will not glow in the dark, not because it is no longer almost as strong at it was the day it was made, but because the zinc sulphide it is mixed with has been oxidized by the energy in the radium over the years. It was the zinc sulphide that glowed and it was the tiny bit of radium mixed in with it that provided the energy to make it glow brightly. Even though there is very little radium in the paint, you do not want to get it down inside your body such as in your lungs by breathing its dust or ingesting it by getting some on your fingers then using your fingers to eat some food later."
Edited by andy_s on Tuesday 22 March 20:41
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