Employment Agencies - Sigh...
Discussion
They really don't help their own image much do they?
I run a small electronics design and development business, which mainly consists of me and (occasionally) some blokes that I have known for years and who specialise in various niche areas. I am (or rather the business is) a member of various trade organisations who produce annual directories which seem only to get picked up by people who want to sell me things.
Anyway, yesterday I received a phone call from a recruitment agency who will remain nameless, but are quite progressive. The rather eager voice on the other end gave the standard spiel and said they were the "preferred agency" of a particular local trade body (I checked - they are) and asked if I were recruiting etc etc. Usually when an agency phones it is with the chance of work somewhere so, when I got over the brief disappointment, I said that I wasn't, as I am only a small business who doesn't recruit via agencies and couldn't foresee a time when I would take anyone else on. He couldn't get off the phone fast enough. Fine, no problem there. So imagine my surprise when, at just past 9am, I received an email from the agency marked "AVAILABLE ELECTRONICS ENGINEER" and with an attached CV!
The CV had immediate personal details removed but, in these days of Google, it isn't that difficult to identify people from their job history. Nor is it difficult to find the history of the keen new agent (University College London, 2:1, Classics 2007 – 2010) Activities and Societies: Investment Society, Theatre. Recruitment agency February 2011 – Present.
I imagine this wet behind the ears 21 year old has been been told about all the bonuses he can make and is eager to try his best, but aside from what the hell a classics grad knows about engineering recruitment, I thought it was against professional guidelines and rules to submit CVs unsolicited, and firmly in the grey area when it comes to data protection?
I don't want to stop them sending potential work my way, so I am sending him a polite reply repeating what I said on the phone. Should I drop an equally polite line to his line manager, or is that poking the hornet's nest? Chances are he will be gone in 6 months anyway, most agencies seem to have a phenomenal burn-out rate.
Mike
I run a small electronics design and development business, which mainly consists of me and (occasionally) some blokes that I have known for years and who specialise in various niche areas. I am (or rather the business is) a member of various trade organisations who produce annual directories which seem only to get picked up by people who want to sell me things.
Anyway, yesterday I received a phone call from a recruitment agency who will remain nameless, but are quite progressive. The rather eager voice on the other end gave the standard spiel and said they were the "preferred agency" of a particular local trade body (I checked - they are) and asked if I were recruiting etc etc. Usually when an agency phones it is with the chance of work somewhere so, when I got over the brief disappointment, I said that I wasn't, as I am only a small business who doesn't recruit via agencies and couldn't foresee a time when I would take anyone else on. He couldn't get off the phone fast enough. Fine, no problem there. So imagine my surprise when, at just past 9am, I received an email from the agency marked "AVAILABLE ELECTRONICS ENGINEER" and with an attached CV!
The CV had immediate personal details removed but, in these days of Google, it isn't that difficult to identify people from their job history. Nor is it difficult to find the history of the keen new agent (University College London, 2:1, Classics 2007 – 2010) Activities and Societies: Investment Society, Theatre. Recruitment agency February 2011 – Present.
I imagine this wet behind the ears 21 year old has been been told about all the bonuses he can make and is eager to try his best, but aside from what the hell a classics grad knows about engineering recruitment, I thought it was against professional guidelines and rules to submit CVs unsolicited, and firmly in the grey area when it comes to data protection?
I don't want to stop them sending potential work my way, so I am sending him a polite reply repeating what I said on the phone. Should I drop an equally polite line to his line manager, or is that poking the hornet's nest? Chances are he will be gone in 6 months anyway, most agencies seem to have a phenomenal burn-out rate.
Mike
Fairly typical. A certain IT specialising agency (named after a royal leader) frequently spam out CVs to us, offering all kinds of software developers, PMs, BAs etc. Often they don't even bother blanking out personal details! They get ignored, and any agency that does this will never get hold of my CV. I don't want my CV (and personal details) spammed out to every company the agency has managed to get an email address for!
When I sent my CV to an agency (being a stupid 19yr old), I saw a pile of CV's within a couple of days from the agency - on my boss's desk. The cheeky t**ts were pre-emptively sending CV's for my replacement. As an employer I have used and will never again use agencies - costs too much wonga for sod all. And I thought they were not supposed to send a CV out without checking with the candidate..
http://www.rec.uk.com/about-recruitment/standards/...
http://www.rec.uk.com/about-recruitment/standards/...
Thanks for the advice folks. I did rather wonder why a UCL Classics grad was working for an employment agency up in Manchester. I guess big bonus numbers were mentioned, just like they do to mobile phone sales people. I will be polite and express my surprise that a CV was forwarded and leave it at that. The important thing is that I now know how that particular agency operate, and if nothing else I have picked up some handy tips from the CV they sent.
Cheers!
Cheers!
I remember a while back an agent called me asking if I was available for a role in wireless networking setups and configuration.
She called and asked "What do you know about wireless?"
I replied, "Depends what area of wireless, are we talking protocols, rewriting wireless router embedded software, configuring clients to work with wireless networking, packet analysis?"
She replied "working with something called 802.11 errrrr b or n"
I hung up. I really feel sorry for anyone dealing on the other side with that. If you are going to be in IT recruitment, I would not expect the agent to be as skilled as the person they are looking to recruit, but they should at least understand the basic concepts.
I used to get endless calls from one agency asking if I could fix MRI scanners at hospitals. Because it was on my CV that I used to fix Storagetek robot silos, they assumed that I could fix MRI scanners...
She called and asked "What do you know about wireless?"
I replied, "Depends what area of wireless, are we talking protocols, rewriting wireless router embedded software, configuring clients to work with wireless networking, packet analysis?"
She replied "working with something called 802.11 errrrr b or n"
I hung up. I really feel sorry for anyone dealing on the other side with that. If you are going to be in IT recruitment, I would not expect the agent to be as skilled as the person they are looking to recruit, but they should at least understand the basic concepts.
I used to get endless calls from one agency asking if I could fix MRI scanners at hospitals. Because it was on my CV that I used to fix Storagetek robot silos, they assumed that I could fix MRI scanners...
Interesting thread. I am involved in a start-up in this area, a recruitment website of sorts. It was born out of a sheer frustration at how poor the job boards and many agencies are. To be fair, there are some great agencies who do work hard, vet candidates properly and generally do a damn fine job but they are few and far between. We have created a totally new model, our own technology and there is, to the best of our knowledge, nothing like what we have.
What would be interesting is to know what your pet peevs are with agencies and job boards other than lousy service, poor communication and in-appropriate roles or CV's depending on whether one is a candidate or a company seeking to fill a role.
I think we know and have addressed these concerns very effectively and our clients seem to agree but always good to have as much information as possible. Should anyone wish to, I would appreciate knowing what you want from an agency or website, and what you don't. Sorry for slightly hijacking the thread!
What would be interesting is to know what your pet peevs are with agencies and job boards other than lousy service, poor communication and in-appropriate roles or CV's depending on whether one is a candidate or a company seeking to fill a role.
I think we know and have addressed these concerns very effectively and our clients seem to agree but always good to have as much information as possible. Should anyone wish to, I would appreciate knowing what you want from an agency or website, and what you don't. Sorry for slightly hijacking the thread!
Pappa Lurve said:
Interesting thread. I am involved in a start-up in this area, a recruitment website of sorts. It was born out of a sheer frustration at how poor the job boards and many agencies are. To be fair, there are some great agencies who do work hard, vet candidates properly and generally do a damn fine job but they are few and far between. We have created a totally new model, our own technology and there is, to the best of our knowledge, nothing like what we have.
What would be interesting is to know what your pet peevs are with agencies and job boards other than lousy service, poor communication and in-appropriate roles or CV's depending on whether one is a candidate or a company seeking to fill a role.
I think we know and have addressed these concerns very effectively and our clients seem to agree but always good to have as much information as possible. Should anyone wish to, I would appreciate knowing what you want from an agency or website, and what you don't. Sorry for slightly hijacking the thread!
My issues What would be interesting is to know what your pet peevs are with agencies and job boards other than lousy service, poor communication and in-appropriate roles or CV's depending on whether one is a candidate or a company seeking to fill a role.
I think we know and have addressed these concerns very effectively and our clients seem to agree but always good to have as much information as possible. Should anyone wish to, I would appreciate knowing what you want from an agency or website, and what you don't. Sorry for slightly hijacking the thread!
1) Callbacks. I only think I have ever been called back by an agency once - and that was to tell me that I got the job. Don't bother promising a callback if you don't intend to give one.
2) Don't advertise technical roles that you cannot understand yourself. Nothing is more annoying when an agency says "So you know Active Directory?" Silly question. Are we talking general overview, query programming etc...
Those are my only two hangups really, I know recruitment is a very broad and highly competitive environment (especially at the moment), but sometimes they seem to forget that they are dealing with people. And it is people that will get their money in ultimately.
Carrott, agree with both those points 100%. Other than those, let me ask a very slightly different question, what makes a really good agency or website assuming that they stay in touch and also that they understand what they are recruiting for?
Appreciate you taking the time to answer, very good of you.
Appreciate you taking the time to answer, very good of you.
In a nutshell, communication. I want to know if my feedback is good, or bad. I want to be kept informed of new jobs, and feel like someone is actively looking for opportunities for me, rather than just being a lucky cv on the top of the pile.
However I know this is a very difficult thing to accomplish, not only because of the sheer number of applicants, but also the amount of unqualified people that apply for everything.
Crack that balance and I believe its a winner imo.
However I know this is a very difficult thing to accomplish, not only because of the sheer number of applicants, but also the amount of unqualified people that apply for everything.
Crack that balance and I believe its a winner imo.
In my experience, the best agencies tend to be quite small ones with only a handful of employees. They take a bit of time to get to know you and understand your personality as much as your experience and skills. They also don't spam you when a keyword on your CV matches with one on a job description, and they do keep in touch. Rather than let your CV fall off the database after 3 or 6 months, they will give you a ring or email to check your status. They will also be honest with you, and not insist everything is "really good yeah yeah" etc.
Despite it being illegal, many agencies still advertise jobs that either don't exist, or which they have themselves have seen advertised (but are not contracted for), in the hope that they will be able to jump in and sell one of their people. The big driving force seems to be to acquire as many CVs as possible so they can claim massive databases to pimp around.
Try not to shoehorn people into roles. In my IT support days, I used to get sent to interviews for jobs that were just not suitable, just so the agency could make up the interview numbers. It costs people time and money to go to interviews, don't abuse their good will. One of the first agencies I enrolled with after finishing my masters insisted that all I was qualified and experienced for was repairing fruit machines. Guess what jobs he had on his list...
An agent should have a good knowledge of the field in which he is working. They don't have to be an expert, but they should at least read the trade magazines to keep up with current technologies. They should not be Apprentice types, in it to make fast money to pay their coke habit, and who mysteriously disappear after less than a year. I would rather talk with a 50 year old ex engineer than a 23 year old classics graduate who clearly couldn't find anything else to do, and to whom being an estate agent was too difficult; maturity and professionalism counts for a lot.
Despite it being illegal, many agencies still advertise jobs that either don't exist, or which they have themselves have seen advertised (but are not contracted for), in the hope that they will be able to jump in and sell one of their people. The big driving force seems to be to acquire as many CVs as possible so they can claim massive databases to pimp around.
Try not to shoehorn people into roles. In my IT support days, I used to get sent to interviews for jobs that were just not suitable, just so the agency could make up the interview numbers. It costs people time and money to go to interviews, don't abuse their good will. One of the first agencies I enrolled with after finishing my masters insisted that all I was qualified and experienced for was repairing fruit machines. Guess what jobs he had on his list...
An agent should have a good knowledge of the field in which he is working. They don't have to be an expert, but they should at least read the trade magazines to keep up with current technologies. They should not be Apprentice types, in it to make fast money to pay their coke habit, and who mysteriously disappear after less than a year. I would rather talk with a 50 year old ex engineer than a 23 year old classics graduate who clearly couldn't find anything else to do, and to whom being an estate agent was too difficult; maturity and professionalism counts for a lot.
Common mistakes that recruitment businesses make:
1) Not listening
2) Not actually being an "expert" in their field
3) Not being honest
4) Not doing what they say they are going to do
It is so simple to address the above and actually have some form of value for your candidates and clients, it astounds me that s
te businesses are still operating in tight markets.
1) Not listening
2) Not actually being an "expert" in their field
3) Not being honest
4) Not doing what they say they are going to do
It is so simple to address the above and actually have some form of value for your candidates and clients, it astounds me that s
te businesses are still operating in tight markets.I would urge any employment agency to employ at least 1 person who actually reads the emails they receive. This would instantly put them at an advantage in comparison with A Certain Agency, who have just sent me...
Wait for it...
Another person's CV!
Yes, I replied with a polite, concise, yet abundantly clear email last week. It seems to have been as effective as a Daily Mail reporter in a nuclear power plant.
I'm quite enjoying reading the CVs to be honest, lots of tips in there about what I can put in mine. One tip I have learned from the latest CV (all 5 pages of it) is that the word 'engineer' is actually spelled 'enigneer' (hark at Mr Perfect here). He/she has written it 3 times so it must be true. I think I am going to track down the owner of this CV and contact them, see what the agency said to them.
Wait for it...
Another person's CV!
Yes, I replied with a polite, concise, yet abundantly clear email last week. It seems to have been as effective as a Daily Mail reporter in a nuclear power plant.
I'm quite enjoying reading the CVs to be honest, lots of tips in there about what I can put in mine. One tip I have learned from the latest CV (all 5 pages of it) is that the word 'engineer' is actually spelled 'enigneer' (hark at Mr Perfect here). He/she has written it 3 times so it must be true. I think I am going to track down the owner of this CV and contact them, see what the agency said to them.
to be honest I'm getting sick of recruitment agencies full stop.
Too busy to give feedback, return calls or emails etc....
I appreciate it is a candidate rich market particularly in my field of finance btu they do seem to be forgetting that candidates of today are the recruiting managers of tomorrow - and I WILL remember who called me back...
just a thought...
Too busy to give feedback, return calls or emails etc....
I appreciate it is a candidate rich market particularly in my field of finance btu they do seem to be forgetting that candidates of today are the recruiting managers of tomorrow - and I WILL remember who called me back...
just a thought...
Just to weigh in again - just had an email through asking me if I was interested in a job that required
3 years of solid Redhat Linux experience (the ONLY mention of Linux is "User level Ubuntu" and nothing listed in my job experience", French speaking (nothing in my CV to suggest that I can speak another language).
This should never have been sent to me, another example of throwing out stuff based on random keywords they remember in a CV.
3 years of solid Redhat Linux experience (the ONLY mention of Linux is "User level Ubuntu" and nothing listed in my job experience", French speaking (nothing in my CV to suggest that I can speak another language).
This should never have been sent to me, another example of throwing out stuff based on random keywords they remember in a CV.
I beleive I have had dealings with this agency as well. I dislike their methods and have told them in the past to not send me CV's. They ignored me so I informed them I would charge them for my time if they continued. They did so I sent them a bill which they paid. 6 months down the line and it started again with the next grad .... repeted till they got the message I am not going to give them my business.
I won't give recruitment work to any business unless they make the effort to get to know me and my business.... I don't find spamming CV's the correct way to go about getting my attention.
I won't give recruitment work to any business unless they make the effort to get to know me and my business.... I don't find spamming CV's the correct way to go about getting my attention.
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