Discussion
Can anyone help me out making the right choice ?
I'm looking at getting two at the front of the house to cover all angles auto recording on a loop, I don't want to buy a couple and find out that the picture quality is crap and you can't make anything out, fuzzy, pictulated etc
Reason being three vans on our road have been broken into this week having there tools, ladders stolen, one of which was my Dad's which fortunatly was empty, he's 'just' got to buy a new lock.
My car has also been tampered with, the window trim adjacent to the inner door handle has been snapped with a one inch piece now missing, also a few weeks ago my bonnet seems to have been levered up I assume to disconnect the alarm, both times the alarm went off, cue me running down the stairs half naked.
All doors on the ground floor are alarmed, they have to get through two doors from either the front or back of the house to get in which run on a separate alarm system (ie both outer doors run on a separate system to the two inner doors), all the doors have three bolts/locks (bar the UPVC porch at the front) with reinforced steel plating around the frame's.
I also have one of these placed behind my car
http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/ktarp-telesc...
Adding the camera's is the last thing we can do to protect (see who's doing it, yes I know you can get a Balaclava for £2 but it'll make me feel better) ourselves from the scum.
What's made me go for the camera's is today when washing the car two very dodgy looking f
kwits walked down the road looking (very obviously) at all the houses, they then walked back up the road again looking at all the houses, five times in total they did this, they actually stood on the opposite side of the road at one point and just watched me for a couple of minutes.
I phoned the police not expecting much and guess what, I didn't get much either, 'have they done anything' well no 'well we can't do anything', I understand that but it's just so fking annoying when you know what these s are up to.
My last car was stolen (hence the extra security, alarm, post etc), I'm beggining to think my premium is actually quite reasonable given the circumstances as oppose to fking horrendous.
Oh and budget for the camera's is around £250 top's, less if possible.
I'm looking at getting two at the front of the house to cover all angles auto recording on a loop, I don't want to buy a couple and find out that the picture quality is crap and you can't make anything out, fuzzy, pictulated etc
Reason being three vans on our road have been broken into this week having there tools, ladders stolen, one of which was my Dad's which fortunatly was empty, he's 'just' got to buy a new lock.
My car has also been tampered with, the window trim adjacent to the inner door handle has been snapped with a one inch piece now missing, also a few weeks ago my bonnet seems to have been levered up I assume to disconnect the alarm, both times the alarm went off, cue me running down the stairs half naked.
All doors on the ground floor are alarmed, they have to get through two doors from either the front or back of the house to get in which run on a separate alarm system (ie both outer doors run on a separate system to the two inner doors), all the doors have three bolts/locks (bar the UPVC porch at the front) with reinforced steel plating around the frame's.
I also have one of these placed behind my car
http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/ktarp-telesc...
Adding the camera's is the last thing we can do to protect (see who's doing it, yes I know you can get a Balaclava for £2 but it'll make me feel better) ourselves from the scum.
What's made me go for the camera's is today when washing the car two very dodgy looking f
kwits walked down the road looking (very obviously) at all the houses, they then walked back up the road again looking at all the houses, five times in total they did this, they actually stood on the opposite side of the road at one point and just watched me for a couple of minutes.I phoned the police not expecting much and guess what, I didn't get much either, 'have they done anything' well no 'well we can't do anything', I understand that but it's just so f
king annoying when you know what these s are up to. My last car was stolen (hence the extra security, alarm, post etc), I'm beggining to think my premium is actually quite reasonable given the circumstances as oppose to f
king horrendous. Oh and budget for the camera's is around £250 top's, less if possible.
frosted said:
May I ask where do you live ?
So you know never to move here 
Birmingham.
May aswell be Beirut.
Quite a few insurance companys wouldn't even quote me last year due to the post code.
frosted said:
On the security front , I'm not sure a camera would be decent enough at night , maybe some sort if proximity sensor ?
I've heard/read that a black and white camera is much better for night time though we have two lights at the front that light up the whole driveway if anyone comes about three ft within the driveway, wether this would make a colour camera worthwhile I don't know.When you say proximity sensor what is that ?, a quiet alarm that goes off when someone enters the grounds of the property ?
remember if you are installing cameras then make sure you put up sign saying they are there, as if you do get the little fkwits on camera doing something full faces etc and want to use it in court to convict them. If you havent got the warning cctv in use sign then you cant use it to convict them as in this mad PC world you have to warn crooks!!!
kwits on camera doing something full faces etc and want to use it in court to convict them. If you havent got the warning cctv in use sign then you cant use it to convict them as in this mad PC world you have to warn crooks!!!Effective CCTV out of your price range
I use one of these with 2 beams trained on my car; if anyone goes near, I get a visible and / or audible warning in doors.
Wireless, so easy to fit.
http://www.ultrasecuredirect.com/acatalog/Wireless..._Perimeter_Alarm_Alert_System.html
I use one of these with 2 beams trained on my car; if anyone goes near, I get a visible and / or audible warning in doors.
Wireless, so easy to fit.
http://www.ultrasecuredirect.com/acatalog/Wireless..._Perimeter_Alarm_Alert_System.html
Hi there Christopher
Firstly the bad news. I know exactly what you are trying to achieve and you won't be able to do it for £200. Just the DVR recorder with Hard drive is going to cost you that give or take.
Now for some slightly better news. What about clubbing together with a few neighbours and buying a system between you? We have been working on a particular community CCTV project over the past year or so which uses private residential CCTV systems and pools the information captured so that when a crime is committed the members of the scheme use footage from a number of different CCTV systems to try and identify the culprits. Even at this early stage the results have been staggering. Vehicle theft, extortion, aggravated burglary, criminal damage - people have been arrested and are in the process of being prosecuted as I type.
To be fair the resident behind the scheme is really passionate and works hard to ensure people's CCTV is correctly specified and set up. As people who sell CCTV it's been really thrilling to see the results. As for Police apathy, all I can say is in this case they act very quickly on the evidence given to them. 9 times out of 10 the quality of domestic CCTV is such there is simply nothing they can do, we have worked with the group to ensure that isn't the case here.
Your suspicious individuals are a perfect example, if you can get a good image of them on disc then should something happen later on you can try to identify them. It might be that another system records their illegal act but doesn't film them in enough detail for a positive ID, the footage filmed elsewhere does that. This is the power of using different CCTV Systems co-ordinated throughout the community. They also incorporate cameras capable of recording vehicle number plates, particularly at night and that information proves invaluable.
As to what you need for your set up. DVR wise you need a proper DVR recorder recording in what's called D1 or 4 CIF resolution. Camera wise you need cameras that will record in sufficient detail at the distances required. Once you get more than 4-6 metres from a camera that means quite specific cameras with good speciality lenses fitted to them.
Forget the quoted distances in a camera's blurb. CCTV technical info in sales patter is notoriously useless but the distances quoted of 20 metres, 30 metres and so on refer to a theoretical range of built in Infra red illumination. You would rarely if ever be able to film any useful footage at those distances.
The vast majority of domestic CCTV equipment on the market are little more than toys, all be it packaged up using wonderful language. It's very much like domestic fireworks, a far cry from the public display products on offer. Our aim as a company is to supply CCTV more along the lines of those public fireworks products but at an affordable price for what it is.
Here is a CCTV guide covering CCTV cameras, CCTV DVR recorders and CCTV Accessories - power supplies, cables, connectors etc
Finally make sure wherever you decide to buy from provides good back up and support, not just in case the stuff stops working but also for any set up problems you might encounter.
Feel free to give me a call via the website link and I will have a chat and try and work out what cameras etc you need.
All the best & keep smiling
Henry
Firstly the bad news. I know exactly what you are trying to achieve and you won't be able to do it for £200. Just the DVR recorder with Hard drive is going to cost you that give or take.
Now for some slightly better news. What about clubbing together with a few neighbours and buying a system between you? We have been working on a particular community CCTV project over the past year or so which uses private residential CCTV systems and pools the information captured so that when a crime is committed the members of the scheme use footage from a number of different CCTV systems to try and identify the culprits. Even at this early stage the results have been staggering. Vehicle theft, extortion, aggravated burglary, criminal damage - people have been arrested and are in the process of being prosecuted as I type.
To be fair the resident behind the scheme is really passionate and works hard to ensure people's CCTV is correctly specified and set up. As people who sell CCTV it's been really thrilling to see the results. As for Police apathy, all I can say is in this case they act very quickly on the evidence given to them. 9 times out of 10 the quality of domestic CCTV is such there is simply nothing they can do, we have worked with the group to ensure that isn't the case here.
Your suspicious individuals are a perfect example, if you can get a good image of them on disc then should something happen later on you can try to identify them. It might be that another system records their illegal act but doesn't film them in enough detail for a positive ID, the footage filmed elsewhere does that. This is the power of using different CCTV Systems co-ordinated throughout the community. They also incorporate cameras capable of recording vehicle number plates, particularly at night and that information proves invaluable.
As to what you need for your set up. DVR wise you need a proper DVR recorder recording in what's called D1 or 4 CIF resolution. Camera wise you need cameras that will record in sufficient detail at the distances required. Once you get more than 4-6 metres from a camera that means quite specific cameras with good speciality lenses fitted to them.
Forget the quoted distances in a camera's blurb. CCTV technical info in sales patter is notoriously useless but the distances quoted of 20 metres, 30 metres and so on refer to a theoretical range of built in Infra red illumination. You would rarely if ever be able to film any useful footage at those distances.
The vast majority of domestic CCTV equipment on the market are little more than toys, all be it packaged up using wonderful language. It's very much like domestic fireworks, a far cry from the public display products on offer. Our aim as a company is to supply CCTV more along the lines of those public fireworks products but at an affordable price for what it is.
Here is a CCTV guide covering CCTV cameras, CCTV DVR recorders and CCTV Accessories - power supplies, cables, connectors etc
Finally make sure wherever you decide to buy from provides good back up and support, not just in case the stuff stops working but also for any set up problems you might encounter.
Feel free to give me a call via the website link and I will have a chat and try and work out what cameras etc you need.
All the best & keep smiling
Henry
Hello, I have system £450 goes to a video link and TV got a 500 watt light near the camera so at night you get a nice picture if movement sets it off. My one works on movement then light goes on and the camera. If also bought a driveway alarm system £25.00 . This makes a sound to let me know if someone comes up the driveway.
I have the sign in the window which you need by law ?. I also got the Yale house alarm as well which is very good.
I have the sign in the window which you need by law ?. I also got the Yale house alarm as well which is very good.
Edited by SEE YA on Friday 25th March 09:34
I have just installed a CCTV at my home, it's got H.264 quality cameras with very good night vision and records on a hard drive in different modes, all the time, by time and date or by motion which also pre-records before motion is detected by a certain time you set. I can view the cameras on my iPhone or via any computer from anywhere, I also have them connected to my TV via the AV connection and can view all cameras in an instant. If you wish you can use PTZ cameras and control them remotely too but these are a bit pricey.
All this for a couple of hundred quid. More a precucion than anything but it's maintenance free so fit and forget but if you have any problems then you just go back in time and look at the footage and save if necessary. All for two and half hundred quid.
All this for a couple of hundred quid. More a precucion than anything but it's maintenance free so fit and forget but if you have any problems then you just go back in time and look at the footage and save if necessary. All for two and half hundred quid.
Forget CCTV cameras. I have them all round my house. They are expensive sony day night versions.
Quick chat with your local plod will tell you how useless they are. The comment we got were that the face must be head on and take up more than 50% of the area of the camera to be definitive evidence for a prosecution.
In other words forget it. The system by which they alert you is also pants because you have to have overlap on cameras to tell the size of objects. If you just do it on one camera at an object it can't tell the difference between an elephant walking into your garden and a small fly on the lens.
Thirdly if you incorporate any sort of IR for night vision anywhere near the camera itself the lens will immediately be a home for spiders and no matter what you spray the cameras with or what you do the spiders will return the day after.
The only security is something that alerts you to the problem for you to investigation with as little false alarms as possible. That rules out dog and perimeter sensing IR/ultrasounic device, or even combined devices.
My advice to you is to use an infrared beam across the front of your garden above dog height but below man height where the public would never go.
We have one stretching across the front and back of our garden. There are no false positives, and unlike other security, if it goes off you'd better be running.
Quick chat with your local plod will tell you how useless they are. The comment we got were that the face must be head on and take up more than 50% of the area of the camera to be definitive evidence for a prosecution.
In other words forget it. The system by which they alert you is also pants because you have to have overlap on cameras to tell the size of objects. If you just do it on one camera at an object it can't tell the difference between an elephant walking into your garden and a small fly on the lens.
Thirdly if you incorporate any sort of IR for night vision anywhere near the camera itself the lens will immediately be a home for spiders and no matter what you spray the cameras with or what you do the spiders will return the day after.
The only security is something that alerts you to the problem for you to investigation with as little false alarms as possible. That rules out dog and perimeter sensing IR/ultrasounic device, or even combined devices.
My advice to you is to use an infrared beam across the front of your garden above dog height but below man height where the public would never go.
We have one stretching across the front and back of our garden. There are no false positives, and unlike other security, if it goes off you'd better be running.
julian64 said:
Forget CCTV cameras. I have them all round my house. They are expensive sony day night versions.
Quick chat with your local plod will tell you how useless they are. The comment we got were that the face must be head on and take up more than 50% of the area of the camera to be definitive evidence for a prosecution.
In other words forget it. The system by which they alert you is also pants because you have to have overlap on cameras to tell the size of objects. If you just do it on one camera at an object it can't tell the difference between an elephant walking into your garden and a small fly on the lens.
Thirdly if you incorporate any sort of IR for night vision anywhere near the camera itself the lens will immediately be a home for spiders and no matter what you spray the cameras with or what you do the spiders will return the day after.
The only security is something that alerts you to the problem for you to investigation with as little false alarms as possible. That rules out dog and perimeter sensing IR/ultrasounic device, or even combined devices.
My advice to you is to use an infrared beam across the front of your garden above dog height but below man height where the public would never go.
We have one stretching across the front and back of our garden. There are no false positives, and unlike other security, if it goes off you'd better be running.
Oh dear you clearly haven't had the best of experiences. Sadly I suspect every one of your issues are easily cured:Quick chat with your local plod will tell you how useless they are. The comment we got were that the face must be head on and take up more than 50% of the area of the camera to be definitive evidence for a prosecution.
In other words forget it. The system by which they alert you is also pants because you have to have overlap on cameras to tell the size of objects. If you just do it on one camera at an object it can't tell the difference between an elephant walking into your garden and a small fly on the lens.
Thirdly if you incorporate any sort of IR for night vision anywhere near the camera itself the lens will immediately be a home for spiders and no matter what you spray the cameras with or what you do the spiders will return the day after.
The only security is something that alerts you to the problem for you to investigation with as little false alarms as possible. That rules out dog and perimeter sensing IR/ultrasounic device, or even combined devices.
My advice to you is to use an infrared beam across the front of your garden above dog height but below man height where the public would never go.
We have one stretching across the front and back of our garden. There are no false positives, and unlike other security, if it goes off you'd better be running.
The fact your cameras are "Sony" doesn't mean very much I'm afraid, merely that the CCD part of the electronics is made by Sony. Usually people's cameras are too wide angle to capture sufficient detail at distance. The 50% thing isn't actually a hard and fast rule. Courts and the authorities take a sensible approach to these matters. We currently have quite a significant case pending with one of our systems and the person came to be interviewed accompanied by a very well qualified brief to be shown the CCTV evidence. He had obviously told his client not to worry, CCTV footage is always rubbish and there will be no problem getting you off. Apparently the colour drained from both their faces when they were shown the footage
I'm not sure what you mean by alerting you and the size thing. If you mean motion detected recording then you can minimise false triggers by careful selection of your trigger area. Ultimately you will get false triggers but it's not like an alarm where the police come running round and get very annoyed with false alarms. You are merely trying to create a series of bookmarks with which to search footage by.
The spider issue is cured with £8.50 plus Vat of your great British pounds. Spider spray I was amazed when we first tested our spider spray. We did half and half tests on door frames, left some cameras untreated then treated others. The results were great, so we stock the product, (everything we sell we either have made to our spec or we test thoroughly first).
I think you are trying to use CCTV for something it is not intended to be used for ie as an alarm. That said, our DVR recorders do take alarm inputs which can be used to trigger recording so you could use a combined pir / microwave detector or even your "magic eye" beam. CCTV is designed to be used as an evidence tool after the event, and hopefully a deterrent to prevent things happening in the first place.
You sound like the very reason I set up my business !!
Henry
It is true that camera motion detection is flaky at the best of times. Those infra-red beams are very good. There are also some very good professional grade dedicated external PIRs that can be used from the likes of Optex, GJD etc
These (and the infra-red beams too) can be wired into the DVR so that when the detectors detect something you get a photo from the relevant camera sent to you on your phone/pc so you know what set it off.
These are nothing like the crappy PIRs found in those metal garden halogens that get set off at the drop of a hat.
Don't know about the IR camera and spiders problem as I have true day/night cameras with artificial lighting on detection which is better TBH.
These (and the infra-red beams too) can be wired into the DVR so that when the detectors detect something you get a photo from the relevant camera sent to you on your phone/pc so you know what set it off.
These are nothing like the crappy PIRs found in those metal garden halogens that get set off at the drop of a hat.
Don't know about the IR camera and spiders problem as I have true day/night cameras with artificial lighting on detection which is better TBH.
I never know what people mean by the term "true day / night".
One of the great things about CCTV is you seem to be able to make phrases up at the drop of a hat. It gets even better because the manufacturers in Asia simply cobble together a load of phrases when marketing something and whack it on the packaging. Retailers in the UK then repeat them parrot fashion in their marketing
The best I can assume is that it refers to cameras which have 2 distinct settings, a daytime mode and a black and white night time mode. Which would be pretty much most CCTV cameras !!
We don't generally specify IR cut filters in our cameras because as a moving part they are prone to failure. Re: the spiders they tend to get in the way of cameras regardless of whether they are fitted with IR or not due to the nature of where CCTV cameras are fitted.
Before trying to get too clever 99% of people just need to get the basics right first.
As ever, keep smiling
Henry
One of the great things about CCTV is you seem to be able to make phrases up at the drop of a hat. It gets even better because the manufacturers in Asia simply cobble together a load of phrases when marketing something and whack it on the packaging. Retailers in the UK then repeat them parrot fashion in their marketing
The best I can assume is that it refers to cameras which have 2 distinct settings, a daytime mode and a black and white night time mode. Which would be pretty much most CCTV cameras !!
We don't generally specify IR cut filters in our cameras because as a moving part they are prone to failure. Re: the spiders they tend to get in the way of cameras regardless of whether they are fitted with IR or not due to the nature of where CCTV cameras are fitted.
Before trying to get too clever 99% of people just need to get the basics right first.
As ever, keep smiling
Henry
Henry-F said:
The best I can assume is that it refers to cameras which have 2 distinct settings, a daytime mode and a black and white night time mode. Which would be pretty much most CCTV cameras !!
We don't generally specify IR cut filters in our cameras because as a moving part they are prone to failure. Re: the spiders they tend to get in the way of cameras regardless of whether they are fitted with IR or not due to the nature of where CCTV cameras are fitted.
Before trying to get too clever 99% of people just need to get the basics right first.
As ever, keep smiling
Henry
I've noticed you give pretty good advice to folk about CCTV on these forums Henry.We don't generally specify IR cut filters in our cameras because as a moving part they are prone to failure. Re: the spiders they tend to get in the way of cameras regardless of whether they are fitted with IR or not due to the nature of where CCTV cameras are fitted.
Before trying to get too clever 99% of people just need to get the basics right first.
As ever, keep smiling
Henry
Yes, I did in fact mean the presence of an IR cut filter with reference to "true day/night". As such this is the accepted description of which in the professional CCTV world.
As opposed to a "software day/night" camera which has no such filter and which attempts to correct image problems at night by using software algorithms, rather like "digital zoom" verses a true "optical zoom" on a digital camera.(ETA This is an analogy!)
Not rubbishing software day/night cameras but as ever you get what you pay for.
Any decent camera which has such a filter is not going to have problems, there are far more complicated things that could go wrong in any camera.
Not sure if you include me in that 99%, sounds like you do, correct me if I'm wrong. As far as "getting it right" goes quality gear and a decent installation would be the required minimum.
Keep on smiling? Is that like "McDonalds -- I'm Lovin It"
I (genuinely) am confused about your cameras. You said that you can't comment about spiders because your cameras don't have I/R, instead they use PIR triggered lights. But then why would you need an I/R cut filter on the camera? The cameras are using "white" light.
The only reason you need an I/R filter is to compensate for the the different wavelength of infra red light so if you are using an artificial white light there should be no problems
Having an I/R cut filter isn't an expensive option when we are specifying our cameras with the manufacturer. We make a conscious decision not to use them because of their failure rate. Although you say there are far more complicated things that can go wrong with a camera, actually there aren't, because there aren't many mechanical components like the I/R cut filter (a mechanical iris would be a typical example of another such component). Mechanical components are more likely to fail than electronic ones. This is especially the case with outdoor cameras which might be exposed to freezing conditions.
When I talked about getting the basics right I wasn't having a dig at you so please don't think I was. I was merely trying to say that I don't necessarily think good CCTV is about technical features on cameras and DVRs. I think it's about the basics of camera positioning, framing, basic resolution settings and so on. I appreciate I'm generalising and being unfair to experts but I think people asking for advice on here wouldn't consider themselves CCTV experts.
We had an email question on our website this week from a chap looking to upgrade his CCTV system and he listed a load of CCTV camera features asking if ours had them. Some were features every single camera has, others were really obscure features which I've seen kicking around recently and which will no doubt be adopted by vendors in the near future as they try to jump on bandwagons. All these features will pale into insignificance (some are already there now ), if the guy buys a camera with the wrong lens for his job. Ladybird book 1 stuff.
It really is a minefield out there. I set CCTV42 up as a result of trying to buy CCTV for our Porsche business and the more I see of the industry the more it frustrates me seeing people making mistakes. Every week we get get calls from people with problems that are the result of poor selling, lack of knowledge, no customer support - guess what happens when you buy from several thousand miles away in China / Hong Kong !! and so on. If nothing else hopefully my chunterings make people think before just going out and buying Christmas cracker technology CCTV in a box.
You have to keep smiling to remind yourself it's only an Internet forum, nobody died and you never know who anyone is if they upset you anyway
Henry
The only reason you need an I/R filter is to compensate for the the different wavelength of infra red light so if you are using an artificial white light there should be no problems
Having an I/R cut filter isn't an expensive option when we are specifying our cameras with the manufacturer. We make a conscious decision not to use them because of their failure rate. Although you say there are far more complicated things that can go wrong with a camera, actually there aren't, because there aren't many mechanical components like the I/R cut filter (a mechanical iris would be a typical example of another such component). Mechanical components are more likely to fail than electronic ones. This is especially the case with outdoor cameras which might be exposed to freezing conditions.
When I talked about getting the basics right I wasn't having a dig at you so please don't think I was. I was merely trying to say that I don't necessarily think good CCTV is about technical features on cameras and DVRs. I think it's about the basics of camera positioning, framing, basic resolution settings and so on. I appreciate I'm generalising and being unfair to experts but I think people asking for advice on here wouldn't consider themselves CCTV experts.
We had an email question on our website this week from a chap looking to upgrade his CCTV system and he listed a load of CCTV camera features asking if ours had them. Some were features every single camera has, others were really obscure features which I've seen kicking around recently and which will no doubt be adopted by vendors in the near future as they try to jump on bandwagons. All these features will pale into insignificance (some are already there now
), if the guy buys a camera with the wrong lens for his job. Ladybird book 1 stuff.It really is a minefield out there. I set CCTV42 up as a result of trying to buy CCTV for our Porsche business and the more I see of the industry the more it frustrates me seeing people making mistakes. Every week we get get calls from people with problems that are the result of poor selling, lack of knowledge, no customer support - guess what happens when you buy from several thousand miles away in China / Hong Kong !! and so on. If nothing else hopefully my chunterings make people think before just going out and buying Christmas cracker technology CCTV in a box.
You have to keep smiling to remind yourself it's only an Internet forum, nobody died and you never know who anyone is if they upset you anyway
Henry
Edited by Henry-F on Saturday 26th March 20:03
Henry-F said:
I (genuinely) am confused about your cameras. You said that you can't comment about spiders because your cameras don't have I/R, instead they use PIR triggered lights. But then why would you need an I/R cut filter on the camera? The cameras are using "white" light.
The only reason you need an I/R filter is to compensate for the the different wavelength of infra red light so if you are using an artificial white light there should be no problems
I'm surprised you are confused quite honestly as I know you've done a lot of research into cameras. I feel like I'm teaching grandma to suck eggs here!The only reason you need an I/R filter is to compensate for the the different wavelength of infra red light so if you are using an artificial white light there should be no problems
The whole point of the IR filter is to cut the IR duing the day in colour mode to give better colour images. Without the filter images can look washed out because there is IR in sunlight. A camera designed to operate in low and normal lighting conditions shouldn't be as sensitive to IR during the day if it is too perform well.
There are differences in "chroma" needs as well between day and night viewing but if we start talking about that we won't do anything else for a few days.
As you've said yourself one of the uses of CCTV is evidence gathering. With a floodlight lighting up the intruder and the camera dropping back to colour the can get a lot more information. Much more useful to say to the police that the intruder was wearing green trousers, a red top and a blue and white hat rather than he was wearing trousers, a top and a hat. The floodlight also acts as a deterrent of course.
True, decent external PIRs come at a premium.
Henry-F said:
Having an I/R cut filter isn't an expensive option when we are specifying our cameras with the manufacturer. We make a conscious decision not to use them because of their failure rate.
What can I say? All the major manufacturers (Panasonic, Samsung, Honeywell, Sony, JVC etc) have IR pass/cut filters in their day/night cameras. I have never heard of this kind of failure. I have 8 of these cameras and in 5 years I've never had a problem.Please understand I'm not saying software day/night is s
te, some of those makes above have some software day/nights in their range and I've seen perfectly acceptable images with it and as we've said there are other more important things to consider. But true day/night is better. Henry-F said:
When I talked about getting the basics right I wasn't having a dig at you so please don't think I was. I was merely trying to say that I don't necessarily think good CCTV is about technical features on cameras and DVRs. I think it's about the basics of camera positioning, framing, basic resolution settings and so on. I appreciate I'm generalising and being unfair to experts but I think people asking for advice on here wouldn't consider themselves CCTV experts.
We had an email question on our website this week from a chap looking to upgrade his CCTV system and he listed a load of CCTV camera features asking if ours had them. Some were features every single camera has, others were really obscure features which I've seen kicking around recently and which will no doubt be adopted by vendors in the near future as they try to jump on bandwagons. All these features will pale into insignificance (some are already there now ), if the guy buys a camera with the wrong lens for his job. Ladybird book 1 stuff.
Absolutely. I said "quality gear and a good installation" before which includes all of the above.We had an email question on our website this week from a chap looking to upgrade his CCTV system and he listed a load of CCTV camera features asking if ours had them. Some were features every single camera has, others were really obscure features which I've seen kicking around recently and which will no doubt be adopted by vendors in the near future as they try to jump on bandwagons. All these features will pale into insignificance (some are already there now
), if the guy buys a camera with the wrong lens for his job. Ladybird book 1 stuff.Henry-F said:
You have to keep smiling to remind yourself it's only an Internet forum, nobody died and you never know who anyone is if they upset you anyway
He, he, fair enough Edited by Driller on Sunday 27th March 12:48
Sorry, to correct my initial post I meant to say mechanical IR filter. Obviously if the camera has built in IR it needs to have the filter move away during non IR filming and then move back when the IR comes on.
We have to make a lot of choices when speccing our cameras and we went down the route of most reliability. We have seen Mechanical filters fail and wanted to avoid this. We even looked at dual CCD cameras which in theory is the perfect solution but again ruled them out at this stage.
I'm out in Asia again next month and one of the things I'm specifically looking at are some new electronics which are supposed to compensate even better. The problem is we often find that a gain in one area sees a loss in another with all the components of a CCTV system so we test things in real life situations and go from there.
As ever keep smiling & enjoy the rest of your weekend
Henry.
We have to make a lot of choices when speccing our cameras and we went down the route of most reliability. We have seen Mechanical filters fail and wanted to avoid this. We even looked at dual CCD cameras which in theory is the perfect solution but again ruled them out at this stage.
I'm out in Asia again next month and one of the things I'm specifically looking at are some new electronics which are supposed to compensate even better. The problem is we often find that a gain in one area sees a loss in another with all the components of a CCTV system so we test things in real life situations and go from there.
As ever keep smiling & enjoy the rest of your weekend
Henry.
Well even non-IR day night cameras need the filter for when they drop in and out of colour/bw mode to get the best picture. As you rightly say the best thing is to have two seperate CCDs but I think as far as bang for buck this doesn't work out to be viable given the small amount of improvement given over IR filters.
You say you have seen IR filter failures, presumably this is on "Sony CCD" type cameras?
Obviously this is not my job but I find all this stuff absolutely fascinating. I quite envy you going to the East all the time and speaking directly to the manufacturers of these machines.
Bon fin de weekend
You say you have seen IR filter failures, presumably this is on "Sony CCD" type cameras?
Obviously this is not my job but I find all this stuff absolutely fascinating. I quite envy you going to the East all the time and speaking directly to the manufacturers of these machines.
Bon fin de weekend
Henry-F said:
Oh dear you clearly haven't had the best of experiences. Sadly I suspect every one of your issues are easily cured:
The fact your cameras are "Sony" doesn't mean very much I'm afraid, merely that the CCD part of the electronics is made by Sony. Usually people's cameras are too wide angle to capture sufficient detail at distance. The 50% thing isn't actually a hard and fast rule. Courts and the authorities take a sensible approach to these matters. We currently have quite a significant case pending with one of our systems and the person came to be interviewed accompanied by a very well qualified brief to be shown the CCTV evidence. He had obviously told his client not to worry, CCTV footage is always rubbish and there will be no problem getting you off. Apparently the colour drained from both their faces when they were shown the footage
I'm not sure what you mean by alerting you and the size thing. If you mean motion detected recording then you can minimise false triggers by careful selection of your trigger area. Ultimately you will get false triggers but it's not like an alarm where the police come running round and get very annoyed with false alarms. You are merely trying to create a series of bookmarks with which to search footage by.
The spider issue is cured with £8.50 plus Vat of your great British pounds. Spider spray I was amazed when we first tested our spider spray. We did half and half tests on door frames, left some cameras untreated then treated others. The results were great, so we stock the product, (everything we sell we either have made to our spec or we test thoroughly first).
I think you are trying to use CCTV for something it is not intended to be used for ie as an alarm. That said, our DVR recorders do take alarm inputs which can be used to trigger recording so you could use a combined pir / microwave detector or even your "magic eye" beam. CCTV is designed to be used as an evidence tool after the event, and hopefully a deterrent to prevent things happening in the first place.
You sound like the very reason I set up my business !!
Henry
I applaud your enthusiasm, but unfortunately I've had various cameras on my property for seven years. I also had all manner of security consultants, CCTV experts tell me they have the answer to my problems. After a number of problems the sonys were eventually recommended to us ats the best.The fact your cameras are "Sony" doesn't mean very much I'm afraid, merely that the CCD part of the electronics is made by Sony. Usually people's cameras are too wide angle to capture sufficient detail at distance. The 50% thing isn't actually a hard and fast rule. Courts and the authorities take a sensible approach to these matters. We currently have quite a significant case pending with one of our systems and the person came to be interviewed accompanied by a very well qualified brief to be shown the CCTV evidence. He had obviously told his client not to worry, CCTV footage is always rubbish and there will be no problem getting you off. Apparently the colour drained from both their faces when they were shown the footage
I'm not sure what you mean by alerting you and the size thing. If you mean motion detected recording then you can minimise false triggers by careful selection of your trigger area. Ultimately you will get false triggers but it's not like an alarm where the police come running round and get very annoyed with false alarms. You are merely trying to create a series of bookmarks with which to search footage by.
The spider issue is cured with £8.50 plus Vat of your great British pounds. Spider spray I was amazed when we first tested our spider spray. We did half and half tests on door frames, left some cameras untreated then treated others. The results were great, so we stock the product, (everything we sell we either have made to our spec or we test thoroughly first).
I think you are trying to use CCTV for something it is not intended to be used for ie as an alarm. That said, our DVR recorders do take alarm inputs which can be used to trigger recording so you could use a combined pir / microwave detector or even your "magic eye" beam. CCTV is designed to be used as an evidence tool after the event, and hopefully a deterrent to prevent things happening in the first place.
You sound like the very reason I set up my business !!
Henry
The cameras were supposidly top of the range, each has a tailor made FOV to try and maximise their usefullness. This is accounting for the fact we live in a bungalow so you'd think the cameras were mounted far more favourably than on a normal house.
The advice on cameras being virtually usless as uncorroberated evidence was from a police architect we got in. Unless you have a method of alerting (we don't use cameras to alert because of the obvious false positives problem as stated above) and catch the crook using the cameras as corroboration you can forget a conviction. (almost a direct quote)
The spider spray you mention we have been recommended a number of times, tried and its useless I'm afraid. Spiders return within a few days. The only solution to this, and its a partial one is to mount independant IR floodlights and disconnect the ones in the cameras.
I'm afraid my advice to the op stands. Forget CCTV, or at least only but it if you can afford it. But absolutely get the IR beam sensors. Its the only thing that can be relied upon. If the op wants to email me, I'll get him the details of the sensors we found that work well.
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