Another "can't get work" thread...
Discussion
After reading Steve's thread "Where is it that I am going wrong?" I reckon it's worth asking for a bit of help from The Collective aswell.
I'm in the same situ as Steve.
Been looking for work since December, and I'm moving out this weekend as me and the missus can't afford to stay where we are.
I have over 10 years IT Industry experience, ranging from small companies to the NHS and huge national companies.
Mainly doing 1st > 3rd line IT Support/service.
Over the past 3 weeks I have applied for no less than 60 jobs. I have had 3 "thanks but no thanks" and 8 interviews which turn out to be a waste of time. The feedback I get is mental... e.g. "We think you are to honest"
The rest just haven't bothered to get back to me.
I have a snazzy CV with all the correct "buzz words" than spans no more than 2 pages.
All items bullet pointed and not just big chunks of text.
My CV is honest and not full of lies saying things that I can't do.
Download it here > Clicky
Any advice?
cheers
Craig
I'm in the same situ as Steve.
Been looking for work since December, and I'm moving out this weekend as me and the missus can't afford to stay where we are.
I have over 10 years IT Industry experience, ranging from small companies to the NHS and huge national companies.
Mainly doing 1st > 3rd line IT Support/service.
Over the past 3 weeks I have applied for no less than 60 jobs. I have had 3 "thanks but no thanks" and 8 interviews which turn out to be a waste of time. The feedback I get is mental... e.g. "We think you are to honest"
The rest just haven't bothered to get back to me.
I have a snazzy CV with all the correct "buzz words" than spans no more than 2 pages.
All items bullet pointed and not just big chunks of text.
My CV is honest and not full of lies saying things that I can't do.
Download it here > Clicky
Any advice?
cheers
Craig
Have to say, not used to looking at this level of CV, but would suggest a couple of points
1) There are a lot of roles and they seem to say the same sort of thing
2) Its all about what you did -- not what you achieved. I think the reader needs to see what difference you have made.
e.g. "Supported 10k users".
How about "Team lead of XXX and managed the team to deliver against all SLAs and maintained an average ticket resolution time of under XXXX". The CIO was quoted as saying that "This allowed the front line business to deliver xx% more effective care services"
etc etc
All IMHO and as I said it might not be appropriate for this level of role. However that while you are a techie, you understand what the business does.
1) There are a lot of roles and they seem to say the same sort of thing
2) Its all about what you did -- not what you achieved. I think the reader needs to see what difference you have made.
e.g. "Supported 10k users".
How about "Team lead of XXX and managed the team to deliver against all SLAs and maintained an average ticket resolution time of under XXXX". The CIO was quoted as saying that "This allowed the front line business to deliver xx% more effective care services"
etc etc
All IMHO and as I said it might not be appropriate for this level of role. However that while you are a techie, you understand what the business does.
My immediate thought is that you'll be off again in a couple of months.
Looking at your employment history, you've averaged about 9 months in each job you've done since 2006, and for 5 years prior to that were contracted to "various companies".
On top of that, you've got unexplained holes of 3 months and 7 months since late 2007.
Add those two together, and it would be very easy for someone reading who doesn't know you to draw the conclusion that you didn't leave many of those jobs out of choice. This may be completely unfair and unfounded, but there's nothing in the CV to suggest otherwise, and given the number of CVs prospective employers are likely to be getting for any vacancy at the moment, there's frankly no chance of them taking the time to enquire further than what is in the CV in order to find out more.
Some might tell you to massage the dates to make it look like you've got a more stable employment record. Personally I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do this, but then I know that I've got a massively overactive honesty gland!
What you could do, however, is apply a bit of linguistic suggestion....
I'm not a contractor, nor have I particularly come into contact with contractors much, but if I were to look at the CV of a contractor, I would expect to see an employment record of short engagements similar to yours. Even if you weren't contracting after 2006, there's nothing to stop you allowing people to come to this conclusion for themselves.
As an example, everyone has a contract when they're employed, but generally only contractors will specfically refer to their employment as such. Try putting wording such as "duties on my contract included..." on some of the jobs, and put something for the unexplained gaps, even if it's just "looking for a new role following the end of my previous contract".
Lastly, I think it's critical for you to include a paragraph up front about your aspirations. If someone looks at your CV as is, they can very much be forgiven for thinking you'll get bored with them after 6 months and bugger off to the next sparkly offer. If, on the other hand, you put in something along the lines of "whilst you have appreciated the ability to learn a wide range of skills and working environments through your contracting experience, you are now keen to find a long term role in which to develop your future career."
Hope that helps?
Looking at your employment history, you've averaged about 9 months in each job you've done since 2006, and for 5 years prior to that were contracted to "various companies".
On top of that, you've got unexplained holes of 3 months and 7 months since late 2007.
Add those two together, and it would be very easy for someone reading who doesn't know you to draw the conclusion that you didn't leave many of those jobs out of choice. This may be completely unfair and unfounded, but there's nothing in the CV to suggest otherwise, and given the number of CVs prospective employers are likely to be getting for any vacancy at the moment, there's frankly no chance of them taking the time to enquire further than what is in the CV in order to find out more.
Some might tell you to massage the dates to make it look like you've got a more stable employment record. Personally I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do this, but then I know that I've got a massively overactive honesty gland!
What you could do, however, is apply a bit of linguistic suggestion....
I'm not a contractor, nor have I particularly come into contact with contractors much, but if I were to look at the CV of a contractor, I would expect to see an employment record of short engagements similar to yours. Even if you weren't contracting after 2006, there's nothing to stop you allowing people to come to this conclusion for themselves.
As an example, everyone has a contract when they're employed, but generally only contractors will specfically refer to their employment as such. Try putting wording such as "duties on my contract included..." on some of the jobs, and put something for the unexplained gaps, even if it's just "looking for a new role following the end of my previous contract".
Lastly, I think it's critical for you to include a paragraph up front about your aspirations. If someone looks at your CV as is, they can very much be forgiven for thinking you'll get bored with them after 6 months and bugger off to the next sparkly offer. If, on the other hand, you put in something along the lines of "whilst you have appreciated the ability to learn a wide range of skills and working environments through your contracting experience, you are now keen to find a long term role in which to develop your future career."
Hope that helps?
Agree fully with Kermit.
Plus, if you've had so many interviews and failed- there is obviously something wrong with your interview technique.
You are getting 'rubbish' feedback like "You are too honest". WHy are you dismissing that as crap?
Take everything Kermit has said- I can picture an interviewer trying to find out more about your job hopping for you to be say "Well- I left there because my manager was a right Hitler, I left there becasue the company seemed tinpot, I left there because" etc etc.
When I interview people like that I think immediately "Right- leaves every job he does. Never gets an extended contract. It's always someone elses fault. Nothing is ever good enough for him." I wouldn't even vaguely consider emplying someone like that.
I may be way off the mark here but Im amazed at how many people I have seen who blame everyone else for shoddy work history instead of saying "Look, I can see how it looks and I don't want to sit here moaning about previous emplyers. Heres a couple of reasons for leaving but the reality is that Im hard working, reliable and trustworthy contractor who will go to extra efforts adn I understand completely what I need to do to get my CV back on track.." etc etc.
Plus, if you've had so many interviews and failed- there is obviously something wrong with your interview technique.
You are getting 'rubbish' feedback like "You are too honest". WHy are you dismissing that as crap?
Take everything Kermit has said- I can picture an interviewer trying to find out more about your job hopping for you to be say "Well- I left there because my manager was a right Hitler, I left there becasue the company seemed tinpot, I left there because" etc etc.
When I interview people like that I think immediately "Right- leaves every job he does. Never gets an extended contract. It's always someone elses fault. Nothing is ever good enough for him." I wouldn't even vaguely consider emplying someone like that.
I may be way off the mark here but Im amazed at how many people I have seen who blame everyone else for shoddy work history instead of saying "Look, I can see how it looks and I don't want to sit here moaning about previous emplyers. Heres a couple of reasons for leaving but the reality is that Im hard working, reliable and trustworthy contractor who will go to extra efforts adn I understand completely what I need to do to get my CV back on track.." etc etc.
CaNsA said:
I have a snazzy CV with all the correct "buzz words" than spans no more than 2 pages.
All items bullet pointed and not just big chunks of text.
My CV is honest and not full of lies saying things that I can't do.
Download it here > Clicky
Any advice?
cheers
Craig
Despite being bullet pointed, your CV is still very hard to read and not easy on the eye at all. 16 bullet points for a position is overkill.All items bullet pointed and not just big chunks of text.
My CV is honest and not full of lies saying things that I can't do.
Download it here > Clicky
Any advice?
cheers
Craig
CV said:
Apr 2010 – Dec 2010 NHS Liverpool
2nd & 3rd Line Desktop Support Engineer
Main Duties:-
Would look better (and be more likely to be read) as:2nd & 3rd Line Desktop Support Engineer
Main Duties:-
- Providing IT support to over 10,000 staff split over 2 sites, Royal Liverpool & Broadgreen Hospital and Liverpool Heart & Chest Hospital.
- Managing and resolving 2nd & 3rd line incidents assigned to me by the Technical Support Resolver manager in accordance with the HIS Incident Management Process.
- Accurate and concise recording of incident actions within the service management software.
- Providing appropriate resolution details and submitting solutions to the HIS knowledge base.
- Identifying multiple instances of a similar nature and reporting to management with a solution.
- Remote administration, maintenance and support of clients units using SMS, Teamviewer, Logmein and VNC.
- Providing documentation for any project work carried out. eg. EPMA systems.
- Updating documentation to assist 1st line technicians in providing a more efficient service.
- Assisting in the rollout of upgraded systems and migration from Exchange 2003 to Exchange 2010
- Client-side Novell support/testing and fault resolution.
- Blackberry configuration.
- System administration assistance to the Server Team.
- Creation, and testing of, new images for new base units.
- Compatibility testing of bespoke NHS software and Windows 7.
- Installing new equipment.
alternative said:
Apr 2010 – Dec 2010 NHS Liverpool
2nd & 3rd Line Desktop Support Engineer
In this position I provided IT support to 10,000 staff over 2 NHS sites. I was responsible for managing, resolving and accurately reporting 2nd & 3rd line incidents.
Key Achievements:
Also your margins seem to be very small either side. I guess you were trying to make it all fit to 2 pages? Again, it just makes it very difficult to read. White space is your friend!2nd & 3rd Line Desktop Support Engineer
In this position I provided IT support to 10,000 staff over 2 NHS sites. I was responsible for managing, resolving and accurately reporting 2nd & 3rd line incidents.
Key Achievements:
- Updating documentation to assist 1st line technicians in providing a more efficient service. [can you quantify this?]
- Assisting in the rollout of upgraded systems and migration from Exchange 2003 to Exchange 2010
- Another key achievement
Edited by Stevenj214 on Friday 25th March 10:02
Edited by Stevenj214 on Friday 25th March 10:03
Getting some a couple of MCITPs may elevate you above the chaff - MS exams are only £100 a pop, probably worth the investment in your case? You don't appear to have much in the way of recent certification.
(Just an observation, I dont want to kick off the "experience vs qualifications" debate - both is always better
)
(Just an observation, I dont want to kick off the "experience vs qualifications" debate - both is always better
)We're recruiting 1st, 2nd and 3rd line Service Desk people right now (in London). Your CV wouldn't pass our screening because you have no Microsoft certifications. We look for 1 MCTS for first line, 2+ MCTS for second line and completed MCITP SA + an addition (e.g. CCNA) for third line (or an MCITP EA).
964Cup said:
We're recruiting 1st, 2nd and 3rd line Service Desk people right now (in London). Your CV wouldn't pass our screening because you have no Microsoft certifications. We look for 1 MCTS for first line, 2+ MCTS for second line and completed MCITP SA + an addition (e.g. CCNA) for third line (or an MCITP EA).
Luckily it is not every companies policy to do this though. I have worked with some utter useless idiots with more MS and CC qualifications than I could list on a forum sized page...OP - it wouldn't hurt in your case as you seem to be having trouble finding a role, I have never needed one and got a new job recently with no issues. As others have said, clean up the CV and make it punchier, and keep trying
MCSE certs will certainly help if you're struggling to get interviews. I know they are not a very good indicator of the true quality of the person but if you're recruiting on a tight schedule and get 100+ CV's then it's easy to get dumped into the "maybe" pile without them.
If you're going for more 3rd line jobs then I'd recommend highlighting projects\achievements\solutions rather than plain old tasks\duties.
If you're going for more 3rd line jobs then I'd recommend highlighting projects\achievements\solutions rather than plain old tasks\duties.
CoopR said:
If you're going for more 3rd line jobs then I'd recommend highlighting projects\achievements\solutions rather than plain old tasks\duties.
+1Also customise the CV per job so that your experience exactly matches what they are looking for. By that i dont mean lie...... but remove the bits that are not relevant for the job and expand on the bits that are.
I agree with everything above, but I'd also add that it would read better if columns were aligned properly (and consistently) and keep to one font - a bit of Times New Roman and slipped in at the and on the page numbers.
I'd also go to three pages, increase the margins, reduce the text and make it specific for each application you make.
Also, I'd ask what you have been doing since December, and also between August 09 and April 10, and October 07 to February 08. There is also an unexplained gap from 98 to 2001, and possibly from 2006 to July 2006. I'd make sure there are no gaps in your career.
I'd also go to three pages, increase the margins, reduce the text and make it specific for each application you make.
Also, I'd ask what you have been doing since December, and also between August 09 and April 10, and October 07 to February 08. There is also an unexplained gap from 98 to 2001, and possibly from 2006 to July 2006. I'd make sure there are no gaps in your career.
Your name is visible if you click File/Properties in word - I would suggest PDF-ing the CV for distribution.
I haven't seen many contractor C.V.'s but I find myself questioning whether you are quoting technologies for the sake of it. I see your roles being six months here and nine months there but you then list a very large and diverse list of products and technologies. It is impossible to master all these skills in depth in such short times.
If looking for a third line support bod I would be looking for at least four or five years solid support of Exchange, AD, Blackberries, etc.
I am not suggesting you don't have these skills of course, but I would ask you technical questions at Interview about them and see how fluent you are.
It might be worth a summary at the top of the CV, e.g.:
Various contracts in the last 10 years resulting in:
5 years Exchange 2000 to 2010 support and migration
8 years Windows 2000 - 2008 domain deployment and migration
2 years Novell 5.x network support including server configuration
10 years customer facing service provision
Certs would also be a bonus as previously mentioned.
I haven't seen many contractor C.V.'s but I find myself questioning whether you are quoting technologies for the sake of it. I see your roles being six months here and nine months there but you then list a very large and diverse list of products and technologies. It is impossible to master all these skills in depth in such short times.
If looking for a third line support bod I would be looking for at least four or five years solid support of Exchange, AD, Blackberries, etc.
I am not suggesting you don't have these skills of course, but I would ask you technical questions at Interview about them and see how fluent you are.
It might be worth a summary at the top of the CV, e.g.:
Various contracts in the last 10 years resulting in:
5 years Exchange 2000 to 2010 support and migration
8 years Windows 2000 - 2008 domain deployment and migration
2 years Novell 5.x network support including server configuration
10 years customer facing service provision
Certs would also be a bonus as previously mentioned.
Get some certs on there.
Vastly shorten the interest section.
Be honest about your levels of Exchange & server knowledge. If you're not confident - remove it. It doesn't read "confidence" to me - more speculative.
Make your bullets into "star" statements.
Situation
Task
Action
Result
Put some meaningful, quantifiable results in there. Remove anything that is too specific to a given environment as the chances are the next firm won't have it.
HTH
Vastly shorten the interest section.
Be honest about your levels of Exchange & server knowledge. If you're not confident - remove it. It doesn't read "confidence" to me - more speculative.
Make your bullets into "star" statements.
Situation
Task
Action
Result
Put some meaningful, quantifiable results in there. Remove anything that is too specific to a given environment as the chances are the next firm won't have it.
HTH
There are two areas you need to work on. Clearly, your CV is not getting you interviews so something is wrong. What is your covering letter like? It should convince the recruiter to want to read the CV because you're the guy they need. Not, "hi, this is my CV, enjoy, bye."
Also, your interview technique: by honest, do they mean that you're actually putting yourself down in the interview? Or dismissing stuff that sounds good as not being as good as it sounds? You don't have to lie but the way you say things can make something sound interesting and useful or something to ignore.
The replies above have very comprehensively covered the sorts of thing's I'd have questioned so here's some stuff on aesthetics in no particular order.
-It's pretty ugly, are you in IT?
-You need to make your linespacing consistent.
-The use of bold/arial black is... ugly... don't use it. Use a font size one or two bigger than the body of the text; make sure the font sizes are consistent for titles, sub-titles and sub-sub-titles. I found it difficult to group together the info in my head which makes it difficult to pick out info quickly.
-Can you organise the job title as follows:
Date / Job title / employer / location. Don't use tabs. It's messed up because the employer and job titles are differing lengths.
eg Apr 2010 – Dec 2010: 2nd & 3rd Line Desktop Support Engineer, NHS, Liverpool
-Name: don't underline it or use bold; centre it.
-contact details beneath Personal Information
-skills and technologies: don't use ampersand, don't use table. Make it a paragraph.
Also, your interview technique: by honest, do they mean that you're actually putting yourself down in the interview? Or dismissing stuff that sounds good as not being as good as it sounds? You don't have to lie but the way you say things can make something sound interesting and useful or something to ignore.
The replies above have very comprehensively covered the sorts of thing's I'd have questioned so here's some stuff on aesthetics in no particular order.
-It's pretty ugly, are you in IT?
-You need to make your linespacing consistent.
-The use of bold/arial black is... ugly... don't use it. Use a font size one or two bigger than the body of the text; make sure the font sizes are consistent for titles, sub-titles and sub-sub-titles. I found it difficult to group together the info in my head which makes it difficult to pick out info quickly.
-Can you organise the job title as follows:
Date / Job title / employer / location. Don't use tabs. It's messed up because the employer and job titles are differing lengths.
eg Apr 2010 – Dec 2010: 2nd & 3rd Line Desktop Support Engineer, NHS, Liverpool
-Name: don't underline it or use bold; centre it.
-contact details beneath Personal Information
-skills and technologies: don't use ampersand, don't use table. Make it a paragraph.
CaNsA said:
After reading Steve's thread "Where is it that I am going wrong?" I reckon it's worth asking for a bit of help from The Collective aswell.
I'm in the same situ as Steve.
Been looking for work since December, and I'm moving out this weekend as me and the missus can't afford to stay where we are.
I have over 10 years IT Industry experience, ranging from small companies to the NHS and huge national companies.
Mainly doing 1st > 3rd line IT Support/service.
Over the past 3 weeks I have applied for no less than 60 jobs. I have had 3 "thanks but no thanks" and 8 interviews which turn out to be a waste of time. The feedback I get is mental... e.g. "We think you are to honest"
The rest just haven't bothered to get back to me.
I have a snazzy CV with all the correct "buzz words" than spans no more than 2 pages.
All items bullet pointed and not just big chunks of text.
My CV is honest and not full of lies saying things that I can't do.
Download it here > Clicky
Any advice?
cheers
Craig
I'm in the same situ as Steve.
Been looking for work since December, and I'm moving out this weekend as me and the missus can't afford to stay where we are.
I have over 10 years IT Industry experience, ranging from small companies to the NHS and huge national companies.
Mainly doing 1st > 3rd line IT Support/service.
Over the past 3 weeks I have applied for no less than 60 jobs. I have had 3 "thanks but no thanks" and 8 interviews which turn out to be a waste of time. The feedback I get is mental... e.g. "We think you are to honest"
The rest just haven't bothered to get back to me.
I have a snazzy CV with all the correct "buzz words" than spans no more than 2 pages.
All items bullet pointed and not just big chunks of text.
My CV is honest and not full of lies saying things that I can't do.
Download it here > Clicky
Any advice?
cheers
Craig
back at ya taitablindswelledrat said:
Agree fully with Kermit.
Plus, if you've had so many interviews and failed- there is obviously something wrong with your interview technique.
That could be it.Plus, if you've had so many interviews and failed- there is obviously something wrong with your interview technique.
From my experience of having been looking for work for a few months is that there are a lot of people looking for jobs at the minute.
2 jobs going in local IKEA. 750 applicants.
Per job.
He could be interviewing fine, but there could be 5, 10, 15, 50 people who have interviewed better.
Carrot said:
Luckily it is not every companies policy to do this though. I have worked with some utter useless idiots with more MS and CC qualifications than I could list on a forum sized page...
OP - it wouldn't hurt in your case as you seem to be having trouble finding a role, I have never needed one and got a new job recently with no issues. As others have said, clean up the CV and make it punchier, and keep trying
As others have pointed out, it's a screening technique. Also, the new Microsoft partner programme means that companies like ours will be placing a premium on MS-qualified staff, as you now need many more of them to retain Gold Partner status across multiple competencies.OP - it wouldn't hurt in your case as you seem to be having trouble finding a role, I have never needed one and got a new job recently with no issues. As others have said, clean up the CV and make it punchier, and keep trying
[And please, spare me the "MS is rubbish, use Linux etc" comments. MS is still market-dominant and we have a livelihood to earn.]
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