Usb ocilloscopes
Discussion
sparkybean said:
Im looking at getting hold of an oscilloscope for use on the car, but the amount of choice and different specs is bewildering to say the least.
Ive found this on ebay, is 100MS/s enough? And i cant seem to decipher what voltages it will measure. Any advice would be much appreciated
Get a DS1052E.Ive found this on ebay, is 100MS/s enough? And i cant seem to decipher what voltages it will measure. Any advice would be much appreciated
sparkybean said:
Im looking at getting hold of an oscilloscope for use on the car, but the amount of choice and different specs is bewildering to say the least.
Ive found this on ebay, is 100MS/s enough? And i cant seem to decipher what voltages it will measure. Any advice would be much appreciated
What level of functionality do you require ?Ive found this on ebay, is 100MS/s enough? And i cant seem to decipher what voltages it will measure. Any advice would be much appreciated
Picoscope seems to be the daddy of all USB scopes for automotive use.
I bought a Stingray USB scope a while back....but damned if I really know how to use it lol
Tried it on some things and it did work...tried it on others that should yield a signal, but didnt.
I'd say that's more down to me not knowing how to work the software more than anything
http://www.easysync-ltd.com/product/520/ds1m12.htm...
I've got something similar to this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PICOSCOPE-ADC212-AUTOMOTIVE-...
That one looks like it needs a power supply, mine is fully USB, but no square wave output for setting up the probes.
The automotive spec ones get access to a fancier software with sample waveforms, the regular ones are on their own.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PICOSCOPE-ADC212-AUTOMOTIVE-...
That one looks like it needs a power supply, mine is fully USB, but no square wave output for setting up the probes.
The automotive spec ones get access to a fancier software with sample waveforms, the regular ones are on their own.
You might want to consider a data logger instead. I can thoroughly recommend this very low cost 4 channel unit, as you can record signal data as the car is being driven and study it afterwards. Its fine for DC sensor signals, but it is too slow for studying the waveform of ignition signals.
http://www.esr.co.uk/velleman/pcs10.htm
http://www.esr.co.uk/velleman/pcs10.htm
Edited by blitzracing on Sunday 27th March 09:19
I'd personally steer clear of anything that isn't a proper scope.
Even if you've not used one before, once you've had a proper scope and understand how to use it, you'd never want to use anything of a "lesser" nature.
The bottom line here is that you want the scope to be better than the technology you use it on. The USB scopes usually aren't.
Even if you've not used one before, once you've had a proper scope and understand how to use it, you'd never want to use anything of a "lesser" nature.
The bottom line here is that you want the scope to be better than the technology you use it on. The USB scopes usually aren't.
I use one of these for site work (don't worry about the price, shop around, I paid £200 2nd hand for mine):
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fluke-123-Industrial-ScopeMe...
What exactly do you want to do on a car that warrants 100Mhz ?
About the only thing I've ever used any scope for on my cars is checking sensors.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fluke-123-Industrial-ScopeMe...
What exactly do you want to do on a car that warrants 100Mhz ?
About the only thing I've ever used any scope for on my cars is checking sensors.
For automotive you're unlikely to need 100MHz bandwidth, but 100MSa/s is not really up to the job. Yes you can do many things, but there will be stuff that leaves you wanting.
The nice thing about a proper scope, is that it has knobs. It may sound daft, but rotary controls that you can actually hold, are better by miles than an area of pixels that you're trying to manipulate with a mouse.
The nice thing about a proper scope, is that it has knobs. It may sound daft, but rotary controls that you can actually hold, are better by miles than an area of pixels that you're trying to manipulate with a mouse.
dilbert said:
I'd personally steer clear of anything that isn't a proper scope.
Even if you've not used one before, once you've had a proper scope and understand how to use it, you'd never want to use anything of a "lesser" nature.
The bottom line here is that you want the scope to be better than the technology you use it on. The USB scopes usually aren't.
But surely a standalone scope isnt going to offer the the same range or use and abilities of something like Picoscope. On many levels.Even if you've not used one before, once you've had a proper scope and understand how to use it, you'd never want to use anything of a "lesser" nature.
The bottom line here is that you want the scope to be better than the technology you use it on. The USB scopes usually aren't.
The backup support, multiple channels, logging, ability to output signals etc
stevieturbo said:
But surely a standalone scope isnt going to offer the the same range or use and abilities of something like Picoscope. On many levels.
The backup support, multiple channels, logging, ability to output signals etc
I suppose it depends on what you're doing, but decent test kit is available for doing all those things too. If you spend some more money still, you can get all the functionality you describe in a single box, but I'd not recommend that for other reasons.The backup support, multiple channels, logging, ability to output signals etc
Frankly, I'd say you were a bit nutty to think that something like picoscope is more versatile than a standalone scope. Like I said, once you've had a standalone scope, you won't go back. Perhaps you have, but I know I wouldn't.
A really good example of how painful it really is.... So your laptop has a bigger display, but when you have two virtual instruments on the same display; one always obscures the other.
Not only is the performance spec poorer, but when you finally get to a unit that has good performance, a standalone scope is actually cheaper. (Because they sell more of them)
To me it's a no-brainer, get the Rigol, apply the firmware upgrade and get a bloody decent bit of kit for less than you'd pay for a crappy usb scope. I mean... my Rigol, I can even use it as a USB scope if I want to.
The other thing I guess I ought to point out is that for a while there Agilent (who used to be HP)... They were selling the Rigol, rebadging it at £300 more.
No brainer.
Edited by dilbert on Sunday 27th March 16:14
I'm not used to either, and as I said even the stingray USB I bought...well, hasnt been much use to me.
Ive no doubt a unit with rotary knobs would be far far easier to use than its software.
But given the Picoscope is directed solely at automotive diagnostiscs, it does make sense if that is your main use.
As they have all the kit and adaptors for diagnosing various aspects, as well as a multitude of waveforms of how things should be for you to compare to.
Ive no doubt a unit with rotary knobs would be far far easier to use than its software.
But given the Picoscope is directed solely at automotive diagnostiscs, it does make sense if that is your main use.
As they have all the kit and adaptors for diagnosing various aspects, as well as a multitude of waveforms of how things should be for you to compare to.
Serious question chaps, I'm not taking the piss !
I've had scopes (analogue & digital storage) at my fingertips of for the last 30 years or so.
I've been playing with cars and motorbikes for just a little bit longer.
What are you chaps measuring ...... and why ?
Other than checking sensors of one kind or another under load, or very occasionally the odd dynamo (in the olden days), or alternator (these days), I never use the scope anywhere near the car.
I've had scopes (analogue & digital storage) at my fingertips of for the last 30 years or so.
I've been playing with cars and motorbikes for just a little bit longer.
What are you chaps measuring ...... and why ?
Other than checking sensors of one kind or another under load, or very occasionally the odd dynamo (in the olden days), or alternator (these days), I never use the scope anywhere near the car.
Nigel Worc's said:
Serious question chaps, I'm not taking the piss !
I've had scopes (analogue & digital storage) at my fingertips of for the last 30 years or so.
I've been playing with cars and motorbikes for just a little bit longer.
What are you chaps measuring ...... and why ?
Other than checking sensors of one kind or another under load, or very occasionally the odd dynamo (in the olden days), or alternator (these days), I never use the scope anywhere near the car.
The amount of things that modern cars use that require a scope..well, it's plenty.I've had scopes (analogue & digital storage) at my fingertips of for the last 30 years or so.
I've been playing with cars and motorbikes for just a little bit longer.
What are you chaps measuring ...... and why ?
Other than checking sensors of one kind or another under load, or very occasionally the odd dynamo (in the olden days), or alternator (these days), I never use the scope anywhere near the car.
Testing any rotational speed sensor. ( Crank, Cam, ABS/wheel speed etc ) Testing injector or coil outputs. Measuring current of said items for example ( or higher current stuff like glow plugs or starter motor )
And being able to view and log how voltage or current changes over time when operating these various devices is much easier on a scope, than with any other method.
Even measuring something as simple as voltage on a scope has advantages. I worked on a car a while back that after fitting an aftermarket ecu, struggled to start. But with the OEM ecu, it appeared perfect.
It actually turned out to be an alarm fault. For some reason, momentarily after the starter was engaged and key returned to ign on position. It caused the main power relay to drop out for a split second. The OEM ecu could handle this ok. The aftermarket could not.
But it was only when testing power with the scope the dropout could be seen. It really was only a split second. With a multimeter, it would never have been picked up.
Also, testing the signal from say a lambda sensor. A voltmeter only goes so far. A scope gives the true picture of how it is performing.
I tend to use them for rotational sensors, like checking that cam and crank sensors are working ok, and you'd even be ale to spot things like misalignments and weak spots.
With a bit of setting up, you could also use one to look for weak cylinders by watching the push on each ignition, but diagnostics often has something like that in there for it's own misfire detection.
With a bit of setting up, you could also use one to look for weak cylinders by watching the push on each ignition, but diagnostics often has something like that in there for it's own misfire detection.
Nigel Worc's said:
Serious question chaps, I'm not taking the piss !
I've had scopes (analogue & digital storage) at my fingertips of for the last 30 years or so.
I've been playing with cars and motorbikes for just a little bit longer.
What are you chaps measuring ...... and why ?
Other than checking sensors of one kind or another under load, or very occasionally the odd dynamo (in the olden days), or alternator (these days), I never use the scope anywhere near the car.
Sounds like you are seriously under-utilising your scope! There is a massive amount you can observe and diagnose with a scope on a modern car; injector and coil waveforms, crank and cam sensors, some airflow sensors with pulse frequency outputs, ABS sensors, oxygen sensors, speed sensors, knock sensors, CAN bus operation etc..etc..I've had scopes (analogue & digital storage) at my fingertips of for the last 30 years or so.
I've been playing with cars and motorbikes for just a little bit longer.
What are you chaps measuring ...... and why ?
Other than checking sensors of one kind or another under load, or very occasionally the odd dynamo (in the olden days), or alternator (these days), I never use the scope anywhere near the car.
On the subject of USB scopes, what I would say is ANY scope is better than no scope, but the USB scopes can't hope to match the convenience and usability of a decent self contained scope in most circumstances.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Monday 28th March 16:33
I recently bought one of these rather splendid Velleman rechargeable pocket oscilloscopes to troubleshoot a non-car related thing I was building. It was on special offer, so I only paid £80 but it seems to work very well - better than I was expecting for the money.
I haven't used it on the car yet, but I can see it being very useful indeed. I was particularly impressed with a rather natty memory function whereby you can set it to automatically log readings taken at intervals over a period of up to 48 hours. That'll come in handy for diagnosing something or other, I'm sure!
I haven't used it on the car yet, but I can see it being very useful indeed. I was particularly impressed with a rather natty memory function whereby you can set it to automatically log readings taken at intervals over a period of up to 48 hours. That'll come in handy for diagnosing something or other, I'm sure!
Mr2Mike said:
Sounds like you are seriously under-utilising your scope! There is a massive amount you can observe and diagnose with a scope on a modern car; injector and coil waveforms, crank and cam sensors, some airflow sensors with pulse frequency outputs, ABS sensors, oxygen sensors, speed sensors, knock sensors, CAN bus operation etc..etc..
On the subject of USB scopes, what I would say is ANY scope is better than no scope, but the USB scopes can't hope to match the convenience and usability of a decent self contained scope in most circumstances.
Maybe I've just been lucky by having cars that haven't needed anything more than an abs sensor checking !On the subject of USB scopes, what I would say is ANY scope is better than no scope, but the USB scopes can't hope to match the convenience and usability of a decent self contained scope in most circumstances.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Monday 28th March 16:33
I use scopes every working day, I'm aware of what they can measure if needed, I guess it's just not been needed, the car adjusts everything it want to itself.
I just wondered what you chaps were measuring, and as for can bus, apart from telling you it isn't dc (so there is some oscillation), you ain't going to see much !
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