Do you think motorbikes and scooters will return to replace the 'second car'?
Discussion
What I mean is... From what I have read and heard, it would appear that due to reasons of cost, the motorbike/moped/scooter was usually the second mode of transport for members of many families around Britain from the 1940's right up to say, the 1980's. But after this, there appears to have been an explosion in families replacing the bike with a second car, and perhaps a third and a forth and so on.
People in my Dad's age group seem to talk about most families using 2 wheels to get about when they were younger. The mother would usually use the car, the father would go to work on the bike, and the teenage son would get to work/college on a scooter or moped of some kind. Then at weekends, the whole family would use the car.
Nowadays that just doesn't happen, everyone in the house seems to want/need a car.
Now that our roads are more crowded than ever, parking is at a premium, and petrol is going to keep on rising to quite painful levels, plus tax and insurance costs, do you think we might see a return to people taking to two wheels?
Bikes are generally cheaper to buy, insure, run, MOT, tax and maintain, plus the savings in parking costs and associated items.
Especially seen as how younger people now seem virtually unable to insure first cars, when a scooter/bike is still actually quite reasonable.
I'm asking this because within the last year, two of the blokes at my work have ditched the 'second family car' and got themselves motorbikes for the commute, leaving the wife/girlfriend to take the car to work.
Now, I live in a semi rural area and not the centre of London, so you would have throught the savings are minimal, but even so, these guys swear they are saving loads. Especially since they now park for free, whereas a town centre monthly parking charge for a car is £80.
Can you see an increase in bikes coming, or are people to used to having their own warm comfortable car?
People in my Dad's age group seem to talk about most families using 2 wheels to get about when they were younger. The mother would usually use the car, the father would go to work on the bike, and the teenage son would get to work/college on a scooter or moped of some kind. Then at weekends, the whole family would use the car.
Nowadays that just doesn't happen, everyone in the house seems to want/need a car.
Now that our roads are more crowded than ever, parking is at a premium, and petrol is going to keep on rising to quite painful levels, plus tax and insurance costs, do you think we might see a return to people taking to two wheels?
Bikes are generally cheaper to buy, insure, run, MOT, tax and maintain, plus the savings in parking costs and associated items.
Especially seen as how younger people now seem virtually unable to insure first cars, when a scooter/bike is still actually quite reasonable.
I'm asking this because within the last year, two of the blokes at my work have ditched the 'second family car' and got themselves motorbikes for the commute, leaving the wife/girlfriend to take the car to work.
Now, I live in a semi rural area and not the centre of London, so you would have throught the savings are minimal, but even so, these guys swear they are saving loads. Especially since they now park for free, whereas a town centre monthly parking charge for a car is £80.
Can you see an increase in bikes coming, or are people to used to having their own warm comfortable car?
[quote=NinjaPower Bikes are generally cheaper to buy, insure, run, MOT, tax and maintain, plus the savings in parking costs and associated items.
[/quote]
I am not so sure about the savings. My bike costs more to run than my diesel car by the time I include tyres and servicing on top of fuel costs. However, the scooters and smaller commuter bikes would work out much cheaper.
[/quote]
I am not so sure about the savings. My bike costs more to run than my diesel car by the time I include tyres and servicing on top of fuel costs. However, the scooters and smaller commuter bikes would work out much cheaper.
Over the last week or so I have seriously been thinking about doing my bike test.
I was into bikes about 10 years ago but never did do a test, it was all offroad.
The daily 60 mile round trip to work has finally cracked me after about 8 years. I have had eough of sitting in traffic and fuel prices, althouh I understand some big bikes are pretty thirsty.
So as soon as funds permit, I'm going to sell my s
tty old van and buy a stty old DR350 or suchlike.
I'm pretty sure more people will be thinking along these lines with the way the fuel prices are going.
Especially if they have a short commute, to me its madness for people in a city to drive 5 miles to work where it probably takes them 30 minutes.
I was into bikes about 10 years ago but never did do a test, it was all offroad.
The daily 60 mile round trip to work has finally cracked me after about 8 years. I have had eough of sitting in traffic and fuel prices, althouh I understand some big bikes are pretty thirsty.
So as soon as funds permit, I'm going to sell my s
tty old van and buy a stty old DR350 or suchlike.I'm pretty sure more people will be thinking along these lines with the way the fuel prices are going.
Especially if they have a short commute, to me its madness for people in a city to drive 5 miles to work where it probably takes them 30 minutes.
I would certainly think so, i reckon the car as a standard option for young drivers is actually a relatively recent development. When I started riding motorcycles in 1976 nearly all my mates had bikes of one form or another, I can only recall one of the gang who started out with a car at 17. I didn't actually buy a car until I was 24, until then it was bikes all the way. They were cheaper to buy than cars, cheaper to insure, they went faster, and you didn't get stuck in traffic.
One of the factors that I believe started putting people off bikes was the over-emphasis on safety protection. When I started, standard biking gear was boots, jeans, and a leather jacket. You could just jump on and ride. When someone decided that you had to wear full armoured leathers, it all became a bit of a chore, you couldn't exactly pop into town and do a bit of shopping looking like you just finished a Moto GP.
If people go back to using bikes as an everyday means of transport rather than a weekend toy, then we'll probably see a growth in protective gear that looks a bit more normal than the usual dayglo Dainese stuff.
One of the factors that I believe started putting people off bikes was the over-emphasis on safety protection. When I started, standard biking gear was boots, jeans, and a leather jacket. You could just jump on and ride. When someone decided that you had to wear full armoured leathers, it all became a bit of a chore, you couldn't exactly pop into town and do a bit of shopping looking like you just finished a Moto GP.
If people go back to using bikes as an everyday means of transport rather than a weekend toy, then we'll probably see a growth in protective gear that looks a bit more normal than the usual dayglo Dainese stuff.
I've been commuting by bike for over 4 years.
Reasons:
1] Cheaper on fuel whilst still maintaining [ahem]good motorway speeds (50mpg).
2] It's quicker by around 30 minutes a day (including getting kitted up).
3] No traffic jams to worry about.
4] Biking totally erases the stresses of the day so you arrive home completely stress free.
5] It's just better.
6] Despite what people think, biking isn't dangerous. Leave the statistics to the idiots with sports bikes who come out only when the sun shines and ride like morons.
Downsides:
1] You need to be pretty dedicated when the weather is rubbish.
2] Bikes need a fair bit of maintenance/tinkering, especially if you're doing 70 miles a day like me on a bike with 120'000 miles on the clock.
3] Tyres need replacing every 10-15'000 miles.
4] Getting kitted out with bike gear can be expensive. You will need summer and winter gear if you're commuting all year round.
Reasons:
1] Cheaper on fuel whilst still maintaining [ahem]good motorway speeds (50mpg).
2] It's quicker by around 30 minutes a day (including getting kitted up).
3] No traffic jams to worry about.
4] Biking totally erases the stresses of the day so you arrive home completely stress free.
5] It's just better.
6] Despite what people think, biking isn't dangerous. Leave the statistics to the idiots with sports bikes who come out only when the sun shines and ride like morons.
Downsides:
1] You need to be pretty dedicated when the weather is rubbish.
2] Bikes need a fair bit of maintenance/tinkering, especially if you're doing 70 miles a day like me on a bike with 120'000 miles on the clock.
3] Tyres need replacing every 10-15'000 miles.
4] Getting kitted out with bike gear can be expensive. You will need summer and winter gear if you're commuting all year round.
I am one who will be commuting by bike - well if you call what I do commuting that is.
The final straw was at the weekend - my car was hit while parked outside my house. I dont use it that much and the added hassle of having to sort out hire cars, repairs and insurance claims - for simply having it outside meant I need to find an alternative. I have been struggling to figure out what to do and a bike totally fits the bill...
Sorted out a school for the test and I will book the first stage in the next couple of weeks - off for the half-term with the kids, so probably after then. Just a case of getting the bike from there.
I am lucky though - garage space with an electric door means that I can store the bike in relative safety and in the dry without hassle. I tend to drive to Heathrow only, so can even park it in the dry too. Would struggle to break 6000 miles a year, so fits perfectly.
Stroll on bike license and picking up a bike
:-)
The final straw was at the weekend - my car was hit while parked outside my house. I dont use it that much and the added hassle of having to sort out hire cars, repairs and insurance claims - for simply having it outside meant I need to find an alternative. I have been struggling to figure out what to do and a bike totally fits the bill...
Sorted out a school for the test and I will book the first stage in the next couple of weeks - off for the half-term with the kids, so probably after then. Just a case of getting the bike from there.
I am lucky though - garage space with an electric door means that I can store the bike in relative safety and in the dry without hassle. I tend to drive to Heathrow only, so can even park it in the dry too. Would struggle to break 6000 miles a year, so fits perfectly.
Stroll on bike license and picking up a bike
:-)
jkh112 said:
NinjaPower said:
Bikes are generally cheaper to buy, insure, run, MOT, tax and maintain, plus the savings in parking costs and associated items.
I am not so sure about the savings. My bike costs more to run than my diesel car by the time I include tyres and servicing on top of fuel costs. However, the scooters and smaller commuter bikes would work out much cheaper.I not only save money. But after I have bought the bike, paid for CBT, bought gear, It took me 12 months to get to evens, and if I keep it up for another year I will be at around £1400 and a bike better off.
My ybr125 does 100mpg, my beamer does low 20s on the commute.
commuting on the bike enables me to limit the mileage of the car policy much much more, saving money. and though I haven't taken this into consideration, allows me to buy a car far cheaper with much worse mpg, because no-one else wants them these days. I'm even tempted to get a huge 4x4 for dirt cheap just because I can!
I got all my gear for around £150, and its not rubbish either, i'm fully padded+kitted up, helmet is 4*rated.
Bike Insurance is a quarter of my Car insurance,
£15 tax :P
MOTs are only £25 rather than £35
Maintenance is unbelievably easy, (touch wood) there is very little I would need to take it into a garage for, and garage work on a bike is much much cheaper than a car, as labour costs are low due to not needing to take the whole thing apart for hours, and parts are cheaper because they are all smaller:P
The bike only cost a grand, and as its a ybr125, will hold it's value until I sell it. he depreciation on them is almost nothing.
The only downside, is now I want something bigger and faster :P
Yes - and it's arriving tomorrow! 
Mpg pretty decent but access to performance for the money is unbeatable!
Hornet: 140mph+,
0-60 less than 4 sec,
45mpg,
£230 (26 year old male) insurance and cost £1500
Instead of: fiesta:
110mph(maybe),
0-60 in about 12,
40mpg,
£650 insurance,
cost me £4000
Mpg pretty decent but access to performance for the money is unbeatable!
Hornet: 140mph+,
0-60 less than 4 sec,
45mpg,
£230 (26 year old male) insurance and cost £1500
Instead of: fiesta:
110mph(maybe),
0-60 in about 12,
40mpg,
£650 insurance,
cost me £4000
Tempted by a 125cc bike, fast enough for my commute through a town then down a (usually busy, so slow to cars) A road. Fuel should be better, insurance should be better, but I'd imagine I'd st myself everytime the weather wasn't great, or a car over took me when the traffic was clear.
Only problem is the wife loves her car, I love my car, neither of us would chop out car in, and that would make it pointless.
In the mean time, I'm just happy to be 53 miles each way closer to work than I was.
t myself everytime the weather wasn't great, or a car over took me when the traffic was clear.Only problem is the wife loves her car, I love my car, neither of us would chop out car in, and that would make it pointless.
In the mean time, I'm just happy to be 53 miles each way closer to work than I was.
I'm now commuting most days on my CB600FAA Hornet, its my 1st ever bike (id DAS in September) and a few things to note.
First it is good on fuel but its not amazing, I have not worked it out properly but somewhere between 40 / 45mpg, sure a small diesel car would be similar. Second, I save time on the road for sure, however all the safety kit delays leaving work and means I need to arrive a bit sooner - I intend on buying some more gear such as the trousers that look like normal ones but are kevlar lined etc to save changing - more cost and I think i've already paid about £500 on kit. You could do it cheaper but if you are attached its likely you'll get nagged unless you get yourself kitted out.
I do find it a lot less stressfull than the car as you don't have to put up with idiots, you can whip past almost any car you should want to, bikes are fast, filtering is also great.
Overall I can see blokes who are into cars in a petrol head way, or outdoor type stuff going for bikes. I can see youngsters getting scooters. I can't see many women getting out of cars, they like the security / safety of the metal box too much - lets face it most would have a Land Cruiser or Range Rover if they could.
First it is good on fuel but its not amazing, I have not worked it out properly but somewhere between 40 / 45mpg, sure a small diesel car would be similar. Second, I save time on the road for sure, however all the safety kit delays leaving work and means I need to arrive a bit sooner - I intend on buying some more gear such as the trousers that look like normal ones but are kevlar lined etc to save changing - more cost and I think i've already paid about £500 on kit. You could do it cheaper but if you are attached its likely you'll get nagged unless you get yourself kitted out.
I do find it a lot less stressfull than the car as you don't have to put up with idiots, you can whip past almost any car you should want to, bikes are fast, filtering is also great.
Overall I can see blokes who are into cars in a petrol head way, or outdoor type stuff going for bikes. I can see youngsters getting scooters. I can't see many women getting out of cars, they like the security / safety of the metal box too much - lets face it most would have a Land Cruiser or Range Rover if they could.
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Tuesday 29th March 22:58
deveng said:
Tempted by a 125cc bike, fast enough for my commute through a town then down a (usually busy, so slow to cars) A road. Fuel should be better, insurance should be better, but I'd imagine I'd st myself everytime the weather wasn't great, or a car over took me when the traffic was clear.
Only problem is the wife loves her car, I love my car, neither of us would chop out car in, and that would make it pointless.
In the mean time, I'm just happy to be 53 miles each way closer to work than I was.
a standard 125 still does 60mph. unless you're on a NSL, you are unlikely to be overtaken by a car. a more sporty 125 will do 70.t myself everytime the weather wasn't great, or a car over took me when the traffic was clear.Only problem is the wife loves her car, I love my car, neither of us would chop out car in, and that would make it pointless.
In the mean time, I'm just happy to be 53 miles each way closer to work than I was.
rain isn't an issue, snow is though:P
Agreed it depends on the bike, but I think when you add all the costs together it does sense.
Especially from a service/repair/MOT point of view. There is so much less to check on a bike and so much less to fail an MOT on!
I asked the bloke at work who has been commuting for a year now and this is a summary of what he said:
Commutes 12 miles each way, so 24 miles a day, 5 days a week.
Bike is a 1995 Kawasaki ZZR600. He paid £1500 for it about 3-4 years ago.
He gets 50+mpg out of his bike, on average, despite it being a bit on the old side.
He says he goes through a set of tyres and a chain once per year, and he does the service/tyres/MOT all at once.
He's 40 year old so his insurance is quite cheap.
Combined Bike costs for the Tyres, Chain/Sprocket, Service, MOT, Tax, Insurance: £430
Total for car (a 1.2 Fiesta and assuming nothing needs any attention during service/MOT) £630
I have disregarded the fuel costs because there wasn't that much between them, but the big is getting about 5mpg more than the car.
Plus he said he is saving £70 a month in parking which is a biggie.
All in all he is saving about £1040 a year in costs, the bike has only depreciated by £500 in 4 years, but he says the main thing is not sitting in traffic jams in and out of town for an hour each day.
Worth thinking about I guess!
Especially from a service/repair/MOT point of view. There is so much less to check on a bike and so much less to fail an MOT on!
I asked the bloke at work who has been commuting for a year now and this is a summary of what he said:
Commutes 12 miles each way, so 24 miles a day, 5 days a week.
Bike is a 1995 Kawasaki ZZR600. He paid £1500 for it about 3-4 years ago.
He gets 50+mpg out of his bike, on average, despite it being a bit on the old side.
He says he goes through a set of tyres and a chain once per year, and he does the service/tyres/MOT all at once.
He's 40 year old so his insurance is quite cheap.
Combined Bike costs for the Tyres, Chain/Sprocket, Service, MOT, Tax, Insurance: £430
Total for car (a 1.2 Fiesta and assuming nothing needs any attention during service/MOT) £630
I have disregarded the fuel costs because there wasn't that much between them, but the big is getting about 5mpg more than the car.
Plus he said he is saving £70 a month in parking which is a biggie.
All in all he is saving about £1040 a year in costs, the bike has only depreciated by £500 in 4 years, but he says the main thing is not sitting in traffic jams in and out of town for an hour each day.
Worth thinking about I guess!
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