MG ZS (The warm 120 model, not the 180)
Discussion
Okay as the Saab is going soon to be replaced with a diesel for work I've also been contemplating getting a second car for non work stuff and just general running around and the ZS is pushing all the right buttons for me.
Other than obviously checking the the HG upgrade has been done do has anybody got any other information worth considering on the ZS? Or experince with them? Or suggestions for alternatives on a max budget of £1500?
Cheers Guys
Stu
Other than obviously checking the the HG upgrade has been done do has anybody got any other information worth considering on the ZS? Or experince with them? Or suggestions for alternatives on a max budget of £1500?
Cheers Guys
Stu
Even if the head gasket has been replaced, budget for another one anyway (around 600 quid to get it done properly). Yes, use of the more modern components in fixing it helps, but the work also has to be done correctly and most garages wont know what needs to be done or have the equipment for doing it even if they did. It's also not beyond the realms of possibility that a repair would end up costing more than that if the head is soft/porous and needs to be replaced.
Good value cars, but as with anything K-series powered, you need to go in with your eyes open.
Good value cars, but as with anything K-series powered, you need to go in with your eyes open.
kambites said:
Even if the head gasket has been replaced, budget for another one anyway (around 600 quid to get it done properly). Yes, use of the more modern components in fixing it helps, but the work also has to be done correctly and most garages wont know what needs to be done or have the equipment for doing it even if they did. It's also not beyond the realms of possibility that a repair would end up costing more than that if the head is soft/porous and needs to be replaced.
Good value cars, but as with anything K-series powered, you need to go in with your eyes open.
Oh yes am well prepped for the possible need to have the Head Gasket done again and know all the horror stories, even had the conversation with the other half whose first response was "You're going to Bankrupt us....but at least you'll be happy" so thats all good. I just feel the need for something different to the Saab and the soon to be day car (an Avensis diesel....yes a little bit of me has died inside as well) and although I would love the 2.5 V6 I have a strange feeling I would need a big tub of Vaseline at Insurance quote time.Good value cars, but as with anything K-series powered, you need to go in with your eyes open.
From reviews I have read and cars I have been in, they were rated as being very good handling cars and they are comfy and quite spacious inside when I ahve been sat in them. The 120 isn't going to set the world alight performance-wise with 0-60 in around 9.5 seconds but its still pretty nippy.
Main thing is to look at them with an open mind, look at the derv version(able to hit 150bhp for less than £300) and check the quotes on the V6 as they are good value as long as you can deal with the economy! Ignore the crap about HGF going pop all the time and unreliability problems, get one which has had the MLS gasket fitted and dont rag the car from cold and it shouldn't ever fail(my K-series takes abuse most times I drive it and never complains).
Main thing is to look at them with an open mind, look at the derv version(able to hit 150bhp for less than £300) and check the quotes on the V6 as they are good value as long as you can deal with the economy! Ignore the crap about HGF going pop all the time and unreliability problems, get one which has had the MLS gasket fitted and dont rag the car from cold and it shouldn't ever fail(my K-series takes abuse most times I drive it and never complains).
I had a 1.6 ZS - they're a bit rarer than the 1.8 but a little easier to insure. Cracking cars though, the handling is pretty good and I have warm memories of exercising mine on the backroads, for all the lolrover comments it got the car was actually very capable for essentially a Rover 45 sport 
Mine had done 15,000 miles in 4 years when I bought it - I put about 18,000 on it in a year and I remember not being overly kind to it (revving it cold etc). Never had any trouble with the head gaskets, but I was told by a few dealers and mechanics that the 1.6 and 1.8 were slightly more resistant to HGF over the KV6.
If you can, try and find a car with the + spec - from memory it includes air con, leather seats and a cd player rather than a tape deck, and it also includes some of the fancier bodywork on the mk2 (the splitter, vents, skirts and spoiler).
ETA the cars aren't as slow as the specs say, mine was a standard 1.6, still hit 60 in just under 8 seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYdwK9GgU68
Alternatively you could have a look for a ZR, they're 1.4s (105bhp) or 1.8s (160?bhp) but they'll probably be a bit more to insure as well as being harder to find one that hasn't been abused.
I do think the ZS is a bit of an unloved car, for the slack it gets, the car actually is quite good. I do miss mine.
Mine had done 15,000 miles in 4 years when I bought it - I put about 18,000 on it in a year and I remember not being overly kind to it (revving it cold etc). Never had any trouble with the head gaskets, but I was told by a few dealers and mechanics that the 1.6 and 1.8 were slightly more resistant to HGF over the KV6.
If you can, try and find a car with the + spec - from memory it includes air con, leather seats and a cd player rather than a tape deck, and it also includes some of the fancier bodywork on the mk2 (the splitter, vents, skirts and spoiler).
ETA the cars aren't as slow as the specs say, mine was a standard 1.6, still hit 60 in just under 8 seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYdwK9GgU68
Alternatively you could have a look for a ZR, they're 1.4s (105bhp) or 1.8s (160?bhp) but they'll probably be a bit more to insure as well as being harder to find one that hasn't been abused.
I do think the ZS is a bit of an unloved car, for the slack it gets, the car actually is quite good. I do miss mine.
Edited by sebhaque on Wednesday 30th March 16:19
sebhaque said:
Alternatively you could have a look for a ZR, they're 1.4s (105bhp) or 1.8s (160?bhp) but they'll probably be a bit more to insure as well as being harder to find one that hasn't been abused.
Did contemplate the ZR for a little bit, but I will be honest (and yes maybe it's my inner snob talking) I can't help but think that they have more of a barry boy image to them than the ZS, and they seem to get molested by Halford addicted owners far to much for my liking. As for the comment about taking more of a look at the V6, I'm certainly considering it, as long as the jump up isn't hugely more than I'm currently paying it would be worth considering, however the 1.8 would be the good sensible choice (and all that usual stuff we use to justify getting the lesser example of anything that we really want)
My mate has one which I usually go in a few times a week. For the money and type of car it is I think you will struggle finding something that does the same for less money. They are very nice to drive, great handling really for what is a basic fwd hatch. Other than common k series issues there isn't anything major to worry about - just have a good check that everything in the car works when you view the car and once you budget for a head gasket repair you will have generally happy trouble-free motoring for quite some time I imagine.
To be honest, there isn't much to check in the 120. I'd definitely look for the + model as it does come with the extras as mentioned. The HG failures are usually caused by something else such as water pump failure or coolant system leaks, so check the pump was replaced when the HG was fixed last. I'd go with the hatch for more practicality. You could look at Clio 172's, but these will be more to insure than the ZS 120(probably around the same as a ZS 180).
The 120's are nippier than the 0-60 in 9 secs suggests. Economical too.
nb, the KV6 in the 180 does NOT suffer from HG issues like the K-series cars as mentioned in this thread. Certainly not more than any normal car.
The 120's are nippier than the 0-60 in 9 secs suggests. Economical too.
nb, the KV6 in the 180 does NOT suffer from HG issues like the K-series cars as mentioned in this thread. Certainly not more than any normal car.
farrendahl said:
kambites said:
Even if the head gasket has been replaced, budget for another one anyway (around 600 quid to get it done properly). Yes, use of the more modern components in fixing it helps, but the work also has to be done correctly and most garages wont know what needs to be done or have the equipment for doing it even if they did. It's also not beyond the realms of possibility that a repair would end up costing more than that if the head is soft/porous and needs to be replaced.
Good value cars, but as with anything K-series powered, you need to go in with your eyes open.
Oh yes am well prepped for the possible need to have the Head Gasket done again and know all the horror stories, even had the conversation with the other half whose first response was "You're going to Bankrupt us....but at least you'll be happy" so thats all good. I just feel the need for something different to the Saab and the soon to be day car (an Avensis diesel....yes a little bit of me has died inside as well) and although I would love the 2.5 V6 I have a strange feeling I would need a big tub of Vaseline at Insurance quote time.Good value cars, but as with anything K-series powered, you need to go in with your eyes open.
MGZRod said:
If your budgeting for HGF the going rate is about £800 -£1000 these days. It's ridiculous.
I'm having my gasket done (including pressure tests and skim if necessary), the coolant and oil systems flushed, all the belts and tensioners replaced, an annual service and a full geometry setup done for a grand in two weeks time, and that's a VVC which is awkward and an Elise which is even more awkward. If I'd been willing to wait a couple of months, DVA would have given me an extra 20bhp and 20lbft at the same time for 1500 quid (minus the suspension work).
ETA: All that work is costing a grand. Make the post a bit pointless without saying that.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 30th March 22:51
kambites said:
shaun442k said:
nb, the KV6 in the 180 does NOT suffer from HG issues like the K-series cars as mentioned in this thread. Certainly not more than any normal car.
It is extremely thirsty though, compared to the VVC 1.8. shaun442k said:
Having owned both... yes it is, but not a massive amount. Averaged around 40mpg in my (admittedly lighter MGF) compared to 31mpg in my ZS 180.
That's very good for the 180. When I've driven one, I struggled to better 30mpg however gently I drove. 25mpg was more typical. I'd say there's about 10-12mpg in it in the same car. The V6 is a nice engine though. I've often wondered if it would simply drop into the Elise, I assume it shares engine mounts with the I4.
kambites said:
shaun442k said:
Having owned both... yes it is, but not a massive amount. Averaged around 40mpg in my (admittedly lighter MGF) compared to 31mpg in my ZS 180.
That's very good for the 180. When I've driven one, I struggled to better 30mpg however gently I drove. 25mpg was more typical. I'd say there's about 10-12mpg in it in the same car. The V6 is a nice engine though. I've often wondered if it would simply drop into the Elise, I assume it shares engine mounts with the I4.
300bhp/ton said:
kambites said:
shaun442k said:
Having owned both... yes it is, but not a massive amount. Averaged around 40mpg in my (admittedly lighter MGF) compared to 31mpg in my ZS 180.
That's very good for the 180. When I've driven one, I struggled to better 30mpg however gently I drove. 25mpg was more typical. I'd say there's about 10-12mpg in it in the same car. The V6 is a nice engine though. I've often wondered if it would simply drop into the Elise, I assume it shares engine mounts with the I4.
I managed 28mpg in February including 20 mins on track. I do put my foot down regularly so don't drive like an oap all the time. Does make a very nice noise though, especially with a decent cold air induction.
shaun442k said:
My best is 36mpg on the weekly commute. Mostly clear A-roads.
I managed 28mpg in February including 20 mins on track. I do put my foot down regularly so don't drive like an oap all the time. Does make a very nice noise though, especially with a decent cold air induction.
Sounds like you've got a special one. I managed 28mpg in February including 20 mins on track. I do put my foot down regularly so don't drive like an oap all the time. Does make a very nice noise though, especially with a decent cold air induction.
kambites said:
MGZRod said:
If your budgeting for HGF the going rate is about £800 -£1000 these days. It's ridiculous.
I'm having my gasket done (including pressure tests and skim if necessary), the coolant and oil systems flushed, all the belts and tensioners replaced, an annual service and a full geometry setup done for a grand in two weeks time, and that's a VVC which is awkward and an Elise which is even more awkward. If I'd been willing to wait a couple of months, DVA would have given me an extra 20bhp and 20lbft at the same time for 1500 quid (minus the suspension work).
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 30th March 17:55
Gasket kit+bolts - £100
waterpump - £30
Coolent flush - Hosepipe/fairy liquid
Coolent - £15
Oil - £20
Oil filter - £5
Couple of hours work and its done, 1k is obscenely overpriced!
The gasket job is around 600 quid and even if I was doing it myself I'd have to pay a machine shop to pressure test the head and potentially skim it, which wouldn't be free. Plus I think two hours for changing a head on an Elise is very optimistic. Access is a bit of a nightmare.
The latest gasket kit is 215 quid +VAT on its own. It includes a new, stiffer, oil rail (which is what forms the bottom of the "sandwich"), which you have to take the sump off to fit; that extends the labour quite a bit. I don't know how long it would take a garage, but they want the car for three days and I think it would take me at least ten hours of work + the pressure test and skim to do it (and I have done head gaskets before).
If you just want the gasket replaced, you can get it done for under 400 quid. It would be something of a false economy to do so, though, IMO.
The latest gasket kit is 215 quid +VAT on its own. It includes a new, stiffer, oil rail (which is what forms the bottom of the "sandwich"), which you have to take the sump off to fit; that extends the labour quite a bit. I don't know how long it would take a garage, but they want the car for three days and I think it would take me at least ten hours of work + the pressure test and skim to do it (and I have done head gaskets before).
If you just want the gasket replaced, you can get it done for under 400 quid. It would be something of a false economy to do so, though, IMO.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 30th March 22:58
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