How to approach employer regarding wage rise etc?
Discussion
Look for the PH masses opinions and advice on this situation. I will try and keep it short and simple.
I used to be classed as a metering/measurement Technician and I used to go out doing jobs with someone else whilst being trained. However, for the past year and a bit I have been out in the field on my own, carrying out the work to a very high standard and being praised by clients. I have been over to Qatar and Dubai in the past 6 months, along with a few offshore jobs and numerous onshore jobs. I am now a lead engineer, as quoted by my company. I am also expected to be training the trainee that comes on jobs with me.
Now here is the problem, the company are still only paying me a technician rate. I am £10k a year under-paid (salary), Our offshore allowance is laughable, trainee's get more than what I get. I don't get paid for working weekends, overtime or a standby rate, yet I am expected to work 12-16 hour shifts 7 days a week when on a job. We only get 1 day back if we work a full weekend. WE only get this because of the working time directive. If I get home on a sunday then I get no time back. Our daily/offshore allowance is per night - not day. Take today as an example; I am currently offshore waiting on a chopper home. I have worked all day so far. Our chopper isn't due out until 7pm so I won't get home until about 9pm. I won't get any offshore allowance for today since I get home tonight, yet I will have worked a full 12 hour shift offshore.
Now, how do I approach my employer about this? I have requested a "chat" once I return to the office - tomorrow. I already lost my temper with them before I came offshore due to them wanting me to give up my weekend to load equipment which "may" turn up and claimed as lead engineer it is my responsibility etc etc. I replied with an angry email stating that I am only an engineer when it suits the company and that if they want me to carry out an engineers role then they need to start paying me an engineers rate. I didn't get any response to it and have spoken with them since and nothing has been said.
The company is very small. Just 4 of us fully trained to do the job and I think they would be up sh*t creek if I left, although I won't tell them I'm leaving unless I have another job lined up. My employers are also a complete bunch of a
holes and are not of the reasonable, approachable type. This just gets my back up even more and I'm past the stage of backing down now. I have had enough of being taken for a ride.
So, what's the best way to approach this? Write a list of my grievences and how I would like them resolved? Compile evidence of other companies T&C's and salaries etc?
Any help/advice would be greatfully appreciated.
Cheers,
Jamie
I used to be classed as a metering/measurement Technician and I used to go out doing jobs with someone else whilst being trained. However, for the past year and a bit I have been out in the field on my own, carrying out the work to a very high standard and being praised by clients. I have been over to Qatar and Dubai in the past 6 months, along with a few offshore jobs and numerous onshore jobs. I am now a lead engineer, as quoted by my company. I am also expected to be training the trainee that comes on jobs with me.
Now here is the problem, the company are still only paying me a technician rate. I am £10k a year under-paid (salary), Our offshore allowance is laughable, trainee's get more than what I get. I don't get paid for working weekends, overtime or a standby rate, yet I am expected to work 12-16 hour shifts 7 days a week when on a job. We only get 1 day back if we work a full weekend. WE only get this because of the working time directive. If I get home on a sunday then I get no time back. Our daily/offshore allowance is per night - not day. Take today as an example; I am currently offshore waiting on a chopper home. I have worked all day so far. Our chopper isn't due out until 7pm so I won't get home until about 9pm. I won't get any offshore allowance for today since I get home tonight, yet I will have worked a full 12 hour shift offshore.
Now, how do I approach my employer about this? I have requested a "chat" once I return to the office - tomorrow. I already lost my temper with them before I came offshore due to them wanting me to give up my weekend to load equipment which "may" turn up and claimed as lead engineer it is my responsibility etc etc. I replied with an angry email stating that I am only an engineer when it suits the company and that if they want me to carry out an engineers role then they need to start paying me an engineers rate. I didn't get any response to it and have spoken with them since and nothing has been said.
The company is very small. Just 4 of us fully trained to do the job and I think they would be up sh*t creek if I left, although I won't tell them I'm leaving unless I have another job lined up. My employers are also a complete bunch of a
holes and are not of the reasonable, approachable type. This just gets my back up even more and I'm past the stage of backing down now. I have had enough of being taken for a ride. So, what's the best way to approach this? Write a list of my grievences and how I would like them resolved? Compile evidence of other companies T&C's and salaries etc?
Any help/advice would be greatfully appreciated.
Cheers,
Jamie
From my own experience, I have only ever got a payrise by proving that I am worth it, by getting another job offer, or changing roles within the company and taking the payrise that came with it.
Especially in these tough times, it may come down to you getting another job offer from elsewhere with more money, and if you want to stay, use it as bargaining or take the new job.
As much as they may be screwed without you in the short term, they will find someone else, such is the current job market.
Especially in these tough times, it may come down to you getting another job offer from elsewhere with more money, and if you want to stay, use it as bargaining or take the new job.
As much as they may be screwed without you in the short term, they will find someone else, such is the current job market.
Ask your employer for a performance review. If that sounds a little too formal for such a small company, then ask your boss how he feels that you are doing in your new role.
If you can get the boss to say that you are coping well with your new responsibilities, then you can ask for a pay rise with a good chance of success.
Whatever you do, try to avoid being confrontational and don't sound like a victim.
Don
--
If you can get the boss to say that you are coping well with your new responsibilities, then you can ask for a pay rise with a good chance of success.
Whatever you do, try to avoid being confrontational and don't sound like a victim.
Don
--
Would you be happy in the job if your wage doubled? I think not, or maybe you will for a few months until you realise your bosses are still aholes. I would try and get another job offer. A great way to jump the salary up or to get an audience with the current boss for a heart to heart. Be prepared to talk about money when talking to other companies - identify what salary you want and why. You may be able to bargain with new employers "take me on at my current wage and, if I perform as promised, we can agree a proper salary of £xxxx after a four month evaluation period."
While you plod on it sounds like the current bosses are head-in-the-sand types who will do nothing to address the problem.
holes. I would try and get another job offer. A great way to jump the salary up or to get an audience with the current boss for a heart to heart. Be prepared to talk about money when talking to other companies - identify what salary you want and why. You may be able to bargain with new employers "take me on at my current wage and, if I perform as promised, we can agree a proper salary of £xxxx after a four month evaluation period."While you plod on it sounds like the current bosses are head-in-the-sand types who will do nothing to address the problem.
I felt this way before, you just have to be firm without being a knob. You must set out what salary you want and why you are worththat. You need to justify everything you say about yourself. If you do this and they say they won't give you extra money then explain you will only do the work explicitly set out in your contract, as you are effectively not being paid for the extra work you're doing.
As for being expected to work weekends that a 10% pay rise pro rota straight away as far as I'm concerned, so working a Saturday as well as mon-fri works out a 32% pay rise. Or 54% if your working 7 days a week.
As for being expected to work weekends that a 10% pay rise pro rota straight away as far as I'm concerned, so working a Saturday as well as mon-fri works out a 32% pay rise. Or 54% if your working 7 days a week.
TurricanII said:
You may be able to bargain with new employers "take me on at my current wage and, if I perform as promised, we can agree a proper salary of £xxxx after a four month evaluation period."
Maybe this works in engineering, but I would say this is a high risk strategy in my kind of work. Being in a new role with 1 weeks notice puts you in a weak position to bargai anything. My advice would be to find the new job at a salary that you're happy with and get in there and show you're worth it from day 1...Thanks for the advice so far guys. I have a bit of an update. Had a chat with my "Team Leader" (I use that term lightly, very lightly) and apparently I am going to be given a wage rise and that they recognise that I am doing the job to the same standard, if not better than the other guy who is being paid 12k more than me. He said he has suggested a figure to the general manager and it's his call as to what I get and he will give me an appraisal with a wage rise to follow. So far so good huh?
Well, lets say that, hypothetically, I seen some emails that I wasn't supposed to see. These emails may have contained comms, regarding me, between the general manager and team leader. To say that I am not very well thought of is an understatement. Apparently I have an attitude problem and they are fed up of me spitting the dummy. The team leader suggested that I be paid the same as my colleague but the GM quicly dismissed that by saying I will be paid nowhere near that much. Apparently my colleague could start up a company doing something completely irrelevent to what we do(Valve testing might have been the example used) for us whereas I can't. Basically they are going to give me a 3k rise as a sweetener as they can't have me leaving at the moment "wether we like it or not he may have helped "carry" us forward this year" and they'd be up sts creek without me. I am getting no more money untill I "learn to keep my gob shut".
The above is just purely hypothetical of course. Now if this was to happen, obviously I was never supposed to see the emails and none of what was said in the mails will be said to me and they will come up with some bullst excuse. Where do I go from here? I am actively job seeking but unfortunately finding a job in my field isn't all that easy. Do I just suck it up and get on with it until I can find something else?
Well, lets say that, hypothetically, I seen some emails that I wasn't supposed to see. These emails may have contained comms, regarding me, between the general manager and team leader. To say that I am not very well thought of is an understatement. Apparently I have an attitude problem and they are fed up of me spitting the dummy. The team leader suggested that I be paid the same as my colleague but the GM quicly dismissed that by saying I will be paid nowhere near that much. Apparently my colleague could start up a company doing something completely irrelevent to what we do(Valve testing might have been the example used) for us whereas I can't. Basically they are going to give me a 3k rise as a sweetener as they can't have me leaving at the moment "wether we like it or not he may have helped "carry" us forward this year" and they'd be up s
ts creek without me. I am getting no more money untill I "learn to keep my gob shut". The above is just purely hypothetical of course. Now if this was to happen, obviously I was never supposed to see the emails and none of what was said in the mails will be said to me and they will come up with some bulls
t excuse. Where do I go from here? I am actively job seeking but unfortunately finding a job in my field isn't all that easy. Do I just suck it up and get on with it until I can find something else?fergywales said:
SplatSpeed said:
hi mate
same boat, got a payrise last week but decided to walk as i was told i have a communication problem as i don't like being micro managed!
good luck on what you decide!
Did the communication problem involve calling the boss a same boat, got a payrise last week but decided to walk as i was told i have a communication problem as i don't like being micro managed!
good luck on what you decide!
at anytime? 
Easty-5 said:
Apparently I have an attitude problem and they are fed up of me spitting the dummy.
Easty-5 said:
I am getting no more money untill I "learn to keep my gob shut".
Easty-5 said:
Where do I go from here?
Sounds to me like they think you are 'high maintenance'. A starting point would be to sit back, try and put yourself in their shoes, and see if you can see why. Regardless of whether you can or not it looks like you need to have a change of attitude if you want to progress there, regardless of whether you think that is justified.GeraldSmith said:
Sounds to me like they think you are 'high maintenance'. A starting point would be to sit back, try and put yourself in their shoes, and see if you can see why. Regardless of whether you can or not it looks like you need to have a change of attitude if you want to progress there, regardless of whether you think that is justified.
That's the thing, there is nothing wrong with my attitude. Everyone else in the company I have spoken to agrees with me. I have sat back for 12months doing a job I'm not being paid to do, and as soon as I open up and ask for a chat I am deemed to have an attitude problem. I know what you are saying though and instead of biting the bait when they announce my measely 3k wage rise I will just smile and say thanks. That will problem annoy them even more as they think I am going to "whinge" about it.
You said its a small company. Its really tough out there for all companies, and many are living a very hand to mouth existance- cashflow is a real problem these days, and a number of businesses I know have folded recently simply because the money they are owed did not arrive in time- presumably the people that owe them are waiting for monies owed to them, and so on and so on.
You may also be surpised to hear that company owners might not have paid themselves for the past few months to keep cashflow in the company.
It might be that tight.
And you asking for a pay rise might have been the straw which could break the camles back. Remember that senior staff discuss things- everything- outside of company hours, and they might forget that you dont know how tight things are, and then here you are asking for a payrise- hence the "attitude" issue
I may be wrong, but its very rare for an SME these days to be rolling in money. The cashflow is often very tight
I could be wrong of course, but this could be the reasdon why you havent got a payrise, and why they think you have an attitude problem.
You may also be surpised to hear that company owners might not have paid themselves for the past few months to keep cashflow in the company.
It might be that tight.
And you asking for a pay rise might have been the straw which could break the camles back. Remember that senior staff discuss things- everything- outside of company hours, and they might forget that you dont know how tight things are, and then here you are asking for a payrise- hence the "attitude" issue
I may be wrong, but its very rare for an SME these days to be rolling in money. The cashflow is often very tight
I could be wrong of course, but this could be the reasdon why you havent got a payrise, and why they think you have an attitude problem.
Easty-5 said:
Look for the PH masses opinions and advice on this situation. I will try and keep it short and simple.
I used to be classed as a metering/measurement Technician and I used to go out doing jobs with someone else whilst being trained. However, for the past year and a bit I have been out in the field on my own, carrying out the work to a very high standard and being praised by clients. I have been over to Qatar and Dubai in the past 6 months, along with a few offshore jobs and numerous onshore jobs. I am now a lead engineer, as quoted by my company. I am also expected to be training the trainee that comes on jobs with me.
Now here is the problem, the company are still only paying me a technician rate. I am £10k a year under-paid (salary), Our offshore allowance is laughable, trainee's get more than what I get. I don't get paid for working weekends, overtime or a standby rate, yet I am expected to work 12-16 hour shifts 7 days a week when on a job. We only get 1 day back if we work a full weekend. WE only get this because of the working time directive. If I get home on a sunday then I get no time back. Our daily/offshore allowance is per night - not day. Take today as an example; I am currently offshore waiting on a chopper home. I have worked all day so far. Our chopper isn't due out until 7pm so I won't get home until about 9pm. I won't get any offshore allowance for today since I get home tonight, yet I will have worked a full 12 hour shift offshore.
Now, how do I approach my employer about this? I have requested a "chat" once I return to the office - tomorrow. I already lost my temper with them before I came offshore due to them wanting me to give up my weekend to load equipment which "may" turn up and claimed as lead engineer it is my responsibility etc etc. I replied with an angry email stating that I am only an engineer when it suits the company and that if they want me to carry out an engineers role then they need to start paying me an engineers rate. I didn't get any response to it and have spoken with them since and nothing has been said.
The company is very small. Just 4 of us fully trained to do the job and I think they would be up sh*t creek if I left, although I won't tell them I'm leaving unless I have another job lined up. My employers are also a complete bunch of aholes and are not of the reasonable, approachable type. This just gets my back up even more and I'm past the stage of backing down now. I have had enough of being taken for a ride.
So, what's the best way to approach this? Write a list of my grievences and how I would like them resolved? Compile evidence of other companies T&C's and salaries etc?
Any help/advice would be greatfully appreciated.
Cheers,
Jamie
E-Mail him a link to this thread? I used to be classed as a metering/measurement Technician and I used to go out doing jobs with someone else whilst being trained. However, for the past year and a bit I have been out in the field on my own, carrying out the work to a very high standard and being praised by clients. I have been over to Qatar and Dubai in the past 6 months, along with a few offshore jobs and numerous onshore jobs. I am now a lead engineer, as quoted by my company. I am also expected to be training the trainee that comes on jobs with me.
Now here is the problem, the company are still only paying me a technician rate. I am £10k a year under-paid (salary), Our offshore allowance is laughable, trainee's get more than what I get. I don't get paid for working weekends, overtime or a standby rate, yet I am expected to work 12-16 hour shifts 7 days a week when on a job. We only get 1 day back if we work a full weekend. WE only get this because of the working time directive. If I get home on a sunday then I get no time back. Our daily/offshore allowance is per night - not day. Take today as an example; I am currently offshore waiting on a chopper home. I have worked all day so far. Our chopper isn't due out until 7pm so I won't get home until about 9pm. I won't get any offshore allowance for today since I get home tonight, yet I will have worked a full 12 hour shift offshore.
Now, how do I approach my employer about this? I have requested a "chat" once I return to the office - tomorrow. I already lost my temper with them before I came offshore due to them wanting me to give up my weekend to load equipment which "may" turn up and claimed as lead engineer it is my responsibility etc etc. I replied with an angry email stating that I am only an engineer when it suits the company and that if they want me to carry out an engineers role then they need to start paying me an engineers rate. I didn't get any response to it and have spoken with them since and nothing has been said.
The company is very small. Just 4 of us fully trained to do the job and I think they would be up sh*t creek if I left, although I won't tell them I'm leaving unless I have another job lined up. My employers are also a complete bunch of a
holes and are not of the reasonable, approachable type. This just gets my back up even more and I'm past the stage of backing down now. I have had enough of being taken for a ride. So, what's the best way to approach this? Write a list of my grievences and how I would like them resolved? Compile evidence of other companies T&C's and salaries etc?
Any help/advice would be greatfully appreciated.
Cheers,
Jamie
Carrot said:
From my own experience, I have only ever got a payrise by proving that I am worth it, by getting another job offer, or changing roles within the company and taking the payrise that came with it.
Especially in these tough times, it may come down to you getting another job offer from elsewhere with more money, and if you want to stay, use it as bargaining or take the new job.
As much as they may be screwed without you in the short term, they will find someone else, such is the current job market.
Oil industry isn't in tough times!Especially in these tough times, it may come down to you getting another job offer from elsewhere with more money, and if you want to stay, use it as bargaining or take the new job.
As much as they may be screwed without you in the short term, they will find someone else, such is the current job market.
Easty-5 said:
they can't have me leaving at the moment "wether we like it or not he may have helped "carry" us forward this year" and they'd be up sts creek without me.
If I was in your situation and I hypothetically saw this, I would respond to the £3k offer with a written request for £3k more than the other guy. (i.e. they take the piss, I take the piss).ts creek without me.If there is a cashflow/profitability issue in the company, in my opinion this should be communicated to you and either an additional review in 3-6 months offered or a profit related bonus as a sweetener.
On the issue of attitude, there is quite a gulf between your "no attitude at all" and their "he needs to keep his gob shut and stop spitting the dummy" analysis. Your ill advised previous email doesn't exactly lend weight to your description of your attitude.
You may have reached a stage where you will get no significant progression without a period of time with no moaning. They know it is difficult for you to find a similar position at other companies, perhaps due to the market or for whatever reason, perhaps because your field is too specialized, thus you may have to start on even LESS money somewhere else in order to superseed your current peers / (engineers).
Failing that, if they are really going to play hardball, perhaps an investigation by HR of salaries V's same 'JOB DESCRIPTION' functions. Good idea to check the legalities of this one with someone HR not from your company.
Are you well qualified? If you are, you shouldn't have an issue moving on.
I know there is a line between being a moaning bd and being st on, and it is a difficult one for you to find, due to you being younger and probably makes it slightly difficult to form strong bonds (as the odler chaps) with the GM, and other management?
You also have the option of getting 'what you think you you are worth' and if you would like to stay with the company, use this are your bargaining. Remember though, it is a very small world and the company that you do this to will remember and I have a strong feeling it will be difficult to get back with them (the company you USED to get your money up).
Good luck. 3k isn't too bad. Many people have struggled to get f' all in the last few years. Although this should be changing now as most companies I know of are out the door with work.
Failing that, if they are really going to play hardball, perhaps an investigation by HR of salaries V's same 'JOB DESCRIPTION' functions. Good idea to check the legalities of this one with someone HR not from your company.
Are you well qualified? If you are, you shouldn't have an issue moving on.
I know there is a line between being a moaning b
d and being st on, and it is a difficult one for you to find, due to you being younger and probably makes it slightly difficult to form strong bonds (as the odler chaps) with the GM, and other management?You also have the option of getting 'what you think you you are worth' and if you would like to stay with the company, use this are your bargaining. Remember though, it is a very small world and the company that you do this to will remember and I have a strong feeling it will be difficult to get back with them (the company you USED to get your money up).
Good luck. 3k isn't too bad. Many people have struggled to get f' all in the last few years. Although this should be changing now as most companies I know of are out the door with work.
GT03ROB said:
Maybe a silly question but any chance your employer is forming his opinion of you as a moaner based on your 1st post? IE: Do they lurk on here? 
No he doesn't lurk on here and if asking to be paid the correct ammount for a job I am doing makes me a moaner then so be it. I have had 2 confrontations regarding salary and other conditions with the team leader in the past year so I guess this is where he has formed the opinion of me being a moaner.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff