Here we go again - Being targeted for redundancy

[stevieb]

I am likley to be put at risk again.. 4th time in 20months. To be honest i am not that bothered if work for the comapny or not. But i would prefer to put effort in to support my family rather than rely on state handouts.

But this time i am only at risk due to the my department hiring a new guy in at a slightly higher level. But have reallocated 90% of my longterm workload to him. They have asked me to work along side this guy to facilitate a hand over.

To cut a long story short i applied for the job didnt get it. I did challenge this but the interview scores were then passed on i scored 84% the other guy 86%

The who situation smells like they are trying there hardest to get me out the door. I am so tempted to resign, but with a wife and family i want to secure a new job first.

Other than being squeeky clena and not putting a foot wrong, anything i can do to protect my backside

[DanoS4]

My only thoughts (as I'm going through the same type of thing at the moment) is to hang in for redundancy - at least then you get a pay-off.....

This may not help with the satisfaction of telling them to "do one", but the money will help your family....

Good luck either way

[stevieb]

Im holding back for the redundancy payout.. But i want something lined up to go to aswell.

I have scaled back my work as have others who are in the same situation. I amonly doing my contractedhours no more and noless.

My ultimate satisfaction would be for this new guy to come in and crash and burn.. But he is trying to tap me up for my contact in the industry, but he is not getting them.

[johnfm]

No doubt they will have to go through the full consultation process etc etc.

Make sure they follow procedures bang on.

If not, get good employment lawyer.

Secure payout.

[rog007]

stevieb said:

Im holding back for the redundancy payout.. But i want something lined up to go to aswell.

I have scaled back my work as have others who are in the same situation. I amonly doing my contractedhours no more and noless.

My ultimate satisfaction would be for this new guy to come in and crash and burn.. But he is trying to tap me up for my contact in the industry, but he is not getting them.

Some would say that that is not a sound strategy because the workplace is a small world where reputations can be easily tarnished and everyone can know about it. Why not give your support to the new guy, tell him everything you know and ensure he is as successful as he can be. Who knows, your positive actions may be noticed and that could come in to play at any time in the future for your benefit. I know it's easier said than done when your future is on the line, but doing the right thing must surely be the best strategy? One day you could be the new guy.

[robemcdonald]

Nothing really to add apart from good luck i went through a similar situation a couple of years ago. Hope it works out for you.

[johnfm]

rog007 said:

stevieb said:

Im holding back for the redundancy payout.. But i want something lined up to go to aswell.

I have scaled back my work as have others who are in the same situation. I amonly doing my contractedhours no more and noless.

My ultimate satisfaction would be for this new guy to come in and crash and burn.. But he is trying to tap me up for my contact in the industry, but he is not getting them.

Some would say that that is not a sound strategy because the workplace is a small world where reputations can be easily tarnished and everyone can know about it. Why not give your support to the new guy, tell him everything you know and ensure he is as successful as he can be. Who knows, your positive actions may be noticed and that could come in to play at any time in the future for your benefit. I know it's easier said than done when your future is on the line, but doing the right thing must surely be the best strategy? One day you could be the new guy.

Why would you give out your commercial contacts toa company that is about to make you redundant?

What an odd idea.

[Mr POD]

In my humble experience of all the people I know who have been made redundant, (and I worked in the automotive industry for 20 years), whilst it is the most stressful thing, a year or 2 later they say it's the best thing that happened to them.

[stevieb]

I am keeping a level head with with my clients and am doing the right thing for my career by maintaining professionalism.

But I will not be doing anything to help this guy other than what is in line with my normal job. I will jot be giving my contacts over... Especially when I am responsible for 3 million pound worth of revenue per year for the team. If I can take it elsewhere I will.

But had a informal telephone interview this evening with a rival company who want to take me and my team on. It's fortunate as my biggest client is going through a rebuffing phase for or current workload. And in theory this should not cause me any problems with my contract of employment.

In life everything happens for a reason I just dont know what that is yet

[TurricanII]

Whilst it sounds like you have a poor employer and a claim for constructive dismissal, why are the contacts and clients yours as opposed to the company that has been paying your wages?

[330J]

Can only sympathise with you. I went through something similar a few years ago - good contact rang me to tell me that the had called to introduce himself as the new person to speak to!

They rang to see why I was leaving - piss boiler straight away. Very frank conversation ensued with lots of back tracking and "they must have got the wrong end of the stick" excuses.

Anyway, hope it works out for you,and watch your back and dont let the snake win.

[stevieb]

TurricanII said:

Whilst it sounds like you have a poor employer and a claim for constructive dismissal, why are the contacts and clients yours as opposed to the company that has been paying your wages?

Company reputation means nothing in my industry its the team put forward for the job that win the work

[johnfm]

TurricanII said:

Whilst it sounds like you have a poor employer and a claim for constructive dismissal, why are the contacts and clients yours as opposed to the company that has been paying your wages?

The revenue generated is the company's.

The company obviously know who the clients are (I assume their accounts departmetn sends them invoices!)

The personal contacts between the OP and the clients are only the company's if they have protected them in his contract of employment.

Unless he is contractually barred by anti-compete covenants, he is free to move his team and take clients with him - happens in many industries where a personal following can be built up.

[stevieb]

johnfm said:

The revenue generated is the company's.

The company obviously know who the clients are (I assume their accounts departmetn sends them invoices!)

The personal contacts between the OP and the clients are only the company's if they have protected them in his contract of employment.

Unless he is contractually barred by anti-compete covenants, he is free to move his team and take clients with him - happens in many industries where a personal following can be built up.

I do not have any contractually barred anti-compete covenants, for my current employer. These were removed when i started working for the company.

The department in my current company was setup as a result of the director leaving his previous employer and taking all staff with him. It is unfotunate that he has now developed a poor attitude towards his staff similar to the reason why he left his last job. The staff are now behind me and are wanting me to look for another company to work for.

The state that my current company is in, is in no fit state to be working for the public sector the way that it is currently being run.

[ZesPak]

If I was in your shoes, I'd just go with it but do some job search. Finding a new job is a lot like hooking up with a girl.
It's a lot easier when you already have one.

[stevieb]

ZesPak said:

If I was in your shoes, I'd just go with it but do some job search. Finding a new job is a lot like hooking up with a girl.
It's a lot easier when you already have one.

I am already in contact with various agents, and in most cases direct contact with the recruiters of other companies.

There is a company setting up in a new office in london which i am working with. They want to establish a working team ASAP. But that is currently on the go slow as the parent comapny is based in Saudi.

[Custard Test]

TurricanII said:

Whilst it sounds like you have a poor employer and a claim for constructive dismissal, ....

Slightly OT and not at all directed at the OP.

Turrican, please can you explain how in your view this situation is constructive dismissal? I am keen to hear as this comment is used more and more frequently when an employee is digruntled, and as an HR Manager I cannot see the situation describe as such a case.

The employer needed someone more experienced and therfore recruited for the position, the employee in the role didn't meet the criteria and therfore did not get the job. The company could not sustain 2 people working in similar positions therfore the less experienced position had to be placed at risk.

Now I see this a lot when an employee falls short of what the company needs, it's not a nice way to recruit but it is upheld by adhering to process and documenting evidence of what the employer needs and matching the best candidate to the selection critera.

Recruitment is horrifically tough and tedious in this situation ,and I do not see they acted outside the law.

Will be happy to hear your views as I am always keen to learn.

[stevieb]

Custard Test said:

Slightly OT and not at all directed at the OP.

Turrican, please can you explain how in your view this situation is constructive dismissal? I am keen to hear as this comment is used more and more frequently when an employee is digruntled, and as an HR Manager I cannot see the situation describe as such a case.

The employer needed someone more experienced and therfore recruited for the position, the employee in the role didn't meet the criteria and therfore did not get the job. The company could not sustain 2 people working in similar positions therfore the less experienced position had to be placed at risk.

Now I see this a lot when an employee falls short of what the company needs, it's not a nice way to recruit but it is upheld by adhering to process and documenting evidence of what the employer needs and matching the best candidate to the selection critera.

Recruitment is horrifically tough and tedious in this situation ,and I do not see they acted outside the law.

Will be happy to hear your views as I am always keen to learn.

But i have not given the full picture of what is going on in the office i have kept it as general and as simple as possible.

But, the reason the guy got the job was not really don to his skill. I have documented evidence stating that he only got the job as i was over worked in the short term and they needed to recruit to cover my absense while away from the office working on another project for 6-8 weeks.

In addition to this they have stated that there desire was to secure more staff at a higher level by recruiting externally and not promoting someone from within.

LAstly i should in theory be safe in a job, but another guy who i work with is likely to be let go. This is due to historical high sickness levels poor performance and the lack of ability in securing work.

The management have made it very clear they want this guy gone, but they are not willing to put the time into to monitor the other guy poor performance (using a performance mangement plan with objectives etc). OR put in place any monitoring of his sickness levels.

I do not like the underhand tactics of the management here, rather than confronting the problem head on, they are inventing ways to make people redundant. I do not see this as being in keeping with the ethics of the comapny that are rammed down our throats day in day out.

[Custard Test]

stevieb said:

Custard Test said:

Slightly OT and not at all directed at the OP.

Turrican, please can you explain how in your view this situation is constructive dismissal? I am keen to hear as this comment is used more and more frequently when an employee is digruntled, and as an HR Manager I cannot see the situation describe as such a case.

The employer needed someone more experienced and therfore recruited for the position, the employee in the role didn't meet the criteria and therfore did not get the job. The company could not sustain 2 people working in similar positions therfore the less experienced position had to be placed at risk.

Now I see this a lot when an employee falls short of what the company needs, it's not a nice way to recruit but it is upheld by adhering to process and documenting evidence of what the employer needs and matching the best candidate to the selection critera.

Recruitment is horrifically tough and tedious in this situation ,and I do not see they acted outside the law.

Will be happy to hear your views as I am always keen to learn.

But i have not given the full picture of what is going on in the office i have kept it as general and as simple as possible.

But, the reason the guy got the job was not really don to his skill. I have documented evidence stating that he only got the job as i was over worked in the short term and they needed to recruit to cover my absense while away from the office working on another project for 6-8 weeks.

In addition to this they have stated that there desire was to secure more staff at a higher level by recruiting externally and not promoting someone from within.

LAstly i should in theory be safe in a job, but another guy who i work with is likely to be let go. This is due to historical high sickness levels poor performance and the lack of ability in securing work.

The management have made it very clear they want this guy gone, but they are not willing to put the time into to monitor the other guy poor performance (using a performance mangement plan with objectives etc). OR put in place any monitoring of his sickness levels.

I do not like the underhand tactics of the management here, rather than confronting the problem head on, they are inventing ways to make people redundant. I do not see this as being in keeping with the ethics of the comapny that are rammed down our throats day in day out.

Ok, with this more detailed evidence ther eis obviously more going on than meets the eye and my comments were not really amied at you just a comment on what another poster wrote. (I was discussing what you originally wrote, I read it at face value and wondered how Turrican could come to the conclusion from what you wrote that it was to be considered constructive dismissal)

If this were my case then I agree that possibly a performance plan would be the way to go to address attendance and performance issues. But, then there is the consideration that there is no money to pay for all these positions so a position still needs to be placed at risk. Then HR have the tough decision of wether they are being fair and "legal" when using this criteria to slect employees when there has been no performance plan put into action before now. I would not lke this task.

If as you say you are safe ( I am presuming in the selection process you score higher) then it is down the the other employee to raise this as an objection/grievance.

Sorry if i pissed you off, it was not at all my intention.

[stevieb]

Custard Test said:

Sorry if i pissed you off, it was not at all my intention.

No you didnt piss me off at all. I am compeltely eyes wide open at the moment. And being in a situation like this it is difficult to distance oneself from everything that is going on to see the bigger picture.

It is useful to see other people thought on these issues.

I have my previsous score sheets for redundancy and although i have not been the highest scorer i have not been the lowest.

So far the compny has rejected 5 take over bids inthe last 4 months, sacked 3000 staff out of 12,000. There are some massive issues that need to beresolved at the core of the business. But they are not being adressed and morale is exteremely low.