The physics behind the machinery/Avoidance.
Discussion
This is one topic which interests me a great deal.
I view the whole Scamera phenomena like this......
They (the Scamera people) are merely manipulating radiation and principles of physics in order to record an event.
So, since they are maipulating radiation for their own ends, we have to manipulate it to our own ends. Achieving the desired effect.
As far as I know, we have 3 sorts of camera.
1. Continual radar emission.(static cameras)
2. Pulsed radar emission. (Hand helds)
3. Laser emission. (I know little about this but assume it works on the Doppler effect as well).
Laser detectors are all very well and with equipment evolving, this is becoming an expensive game.
So, armed with a garden shed and a scientific library. How can I construct an apparatus to fool all of the cameras.
I figure a radar detector is only useful for type 1. The detector will detect 2 as you are busted and 3 is beyond me. (at the moment).
So a continual emission of low amplitude radar noise should screw their system up.
I would like to start a discussion about how these cameras work in fine detail and simple technology which can be used to snooker it.
I suppose we can work along a number of solutions.
1.Avoidance by law abidance (which I recommend)
2.Radiation absorbance.
3.Radiation scattering.
4.False signal emission. (Jammer/Frequency emitter)
5.Vandalism (small minded, illegal stupidity)
What is the current nature of the beast? Radiation/detection wise. I am really curious and I am sure that this topic can be developed into a mine of information about DIY avoidance machinery. I for one have been looking at building my own circuits!
I view the whole Scamera phenomena like this......
They (the Scamera people) are merely manipulating radiation and principles of physics in order to record an event.
So, since they are maipulating radiation for their own ends, we have to manipulate it to our own ends. Achieving the desired effect.
As far as I know, we have 3 sorts of camera.
1. Continual radar emission.(static cameras)
2. Pulsed radar emission. (Hand helds)
3. Laser emission. (I know little about this but assume it works on the Doppler effect as well).
Laser detectors are all very well and with equipment evolving, this is becoming an expensive game.
So, armed with a garden shed and a scientific library. How can I construct an apparatus to fool all of the cameras.
I figure a radar detector is only useful for type 1. The detector will detect 2 as you are busted and 3 is beyond me. (at the moment).
So a continual emission of low amplitude radar noise should screw their system up.
I would like to start a discussion about how these cameras work in fine detail and simple technology which can be used to snooker it.
I suppose we can work along a number of solutions.
1.Avoidance by law abidance (which I recommend)
2.Radiation absorbance.
3.Radiation scattering.
4.False signal emission. (Jammer/Frequency emitter)
5.Vandalism (small minded, illegal stupidity)
What is the current nature of the beast? Radiation/detection wise. I am really curious and I am sure that this topic can be developed into a mine of information about DIY avoidance machinery. I for one have been looking at building my own circuits!
You forgot number 6 Kneegrow.
6) Avoiding identification.
The whole system relies on being able to identify the vehicle number. If a method is employed to prevent it, then the system falls flat on its fat flawed face.
Ive often thought about ways to do this, have tested various ideas and had some success too.(specs)
However, the biggest problem is to beat ALL of them ALL of the time.
Im not saying that it cant be done cos i believe it can, it just may take a while to accomplish.
Ive also toyed with the idea of radar jammers to defeat the static scameras, but remember, theres a few different types currently in use that have operational differences, so alternative methods need to be employed to take them on.
The easiest way to completely defeat ALL the systems is the simplest, its also the one thats cheapest in terms of fines if caught: Remove or obstruct the plate.
Its a poor state of affairs and a damming indictment of police and "partnerships" and "safety groups" that ordinary motorists will contemplate the need to take such measures to avoid these theives from dipping into their pockets.
There will always be the scum that will do this anyway simply because they are illegal drivers engaged in criminal activities.
Its a shame that someone driving 1 mph over a politically correct imposed limit is now considered to be at least equal to these scum and to the likes of paedophiles.
My particular war with the partnerships is over,(unless they try to scam me
) as im of the opinion that its not worth my time to even bother any more, i just want out and i will get the hell out.
They can infest every single road with speed cameras now as far as i care, cos its not going to affect me.
Lentilist utopia = motorists hell. The lentilists are going to win this one i think, but itll be a short lived victory when the reality of what theyve done sinks in to their puny closed minds and things begin to affect THEM.
I cannot wait for that day, payback in the form of gridlocked cities where buses and trams and shanks pony are the only transport will have me in stitches.
6) Avoiding identification.
The whole system relies on being able to identify the vehicle number. If a method is employed to prevent it, then the system falls flat on its fat flawed face.
Ive often thought about ways to do this, have tested various ideas and had some success too.(specs)
However, the biggest problem is to beat ALL of them ALL of the time.
Im not saying that it cant be done cos i believe it can, it just may take a while to accomplish.
Ive also toyed with the idea of radar jammers to defeat the static scameras, but remember, theres a few different types currently in use that have operational differences, so alternative methods need to be employed to take them on.
The easiest way to completely defeat ALL the systems is the simplest, its also the one thats cheapest in terms of fines if caught: Remove or obstruct the plate.
Its a poor state of affairs and a damming indictment of police and "partnerships" and "safety groups" that ordinary motorists will contemplate the need to take such measures to avoid these theives from dipping into their pockets.
There will always be the scum that will do this anyway simply because they are illegal drivers engaged in criminal activities.
Its a shame that someone driving 1 mph over a politically correct imposed limit is now considered to be at least equal to these scum and to the likes of paedophiles.
My particular war with the partnerships is over,(unless they try to scam me
) as im of the opinion that its not worth my time to even bother any more, i just want out and i will get the hell out. They can infest every single road with speed cameras now as far as i care, cos its not going to affect me.
Lentilist utopia = motorists hell. The lentilists are going to win this one i think, but itll be a short lived victory when the reality of what theyve done sinks in to their puny closed minds and things begin to affect THEM.
I cannot wait for that day, payback in the form of gridlocked cities where buses and trams and shanks pony are the only transport will have me in stitches.
Vandalism is mindless however we are dealing with thieves vagabonds and skulking loafers so it is excusable.
Any form of detection could reslult in charges of perverting the course of justice and so is inadvisable.
Best bet is develop a critical mass of people and rid the country of the problem in 1 half hour moment by on cue destruction of all the cameras in one hit.
This would render the scamerships bankrupt and the sandalistlentilist scum gobsmacked.
Any form of detection could reslult in charges of perverting the course of justice and so is inadvisable.
Best bet is develop a critical mass of people and rid the country of the problem in 1 half hour moment by on cue destruction of all the cameras in one hit.
This would render the scamerships bankrupt and the sandalistlentilist scum gobsmacked.
From a Bib...
I obviously can't condone damage/obstruction/law breaking etc etc.... the idea I liked best that I saw was the "Starve the Cameras", where everyone rigidly sticks to the limits for a month and no fines get sent out.
No doubt if there was a drop in KSI that month, it would be claimed as a victory....
I obviously can't condone damage/obstruction/law breaking etc etc.... the idea I liked best that I saw was the "Starve the Cameras", where everyone rigidly sticks to the limits for a month and no fines get sent out.
No doubt if there was a drop in KSI that month, it would be claimed as a victory....
nonegreen said:
Vandalism is mindless however we are dealing with thieves vagabonds and skulking loafers so it is excusable.
Any form of detection could reslult in charges of perverting the course of justice and so is inadvisable.
Best bet is develop a critical mass of people and rid the country of the problem in 1 half hour moment by on cue destruction of all the cameras in one hit.
This would render the scamerships bankrupt and the sandalistlentilist scum gobsmacked.
Agreed. Try organising it tho. No one will put themselves out to do it.
Its all the same attitude, waiting to see what someone else will do first, instead of making a stand and putting it all on the line for something you beleive in.
Ive not met anyone (besides me
) that is either willing or capable of doing that kind of thing. Motorists in this country are completely lethargic when it comes to standing up for themselves.
Thats why we have 3 million of em as lambs to the slaughter coming up this year.
Believe me id do the deed at the chosen moment, but if its only me, or you and a half dozen, then whats the point?
Until drivers are prepared to stand up and actually make a statement, itll remain as it is, and itll get worse, a whole lot worse.
WMHV70 said:
From a Bib...
I obviously can't condone damage/obstruction/law breaking etc etc.... the idea I liked best that I saw was the "Starve the Cameras", where everyone rigidly sticks to the limits for a month and no fines get sent out.
No doubt if there was a drop in KSI that month, it would be claimed as a victory....
axmanmode: yeeerssss Ideas are generally only good ones if they lead to victory. If the sandalists can get away with attacking legitimate business such as Huntingdon life sciences, not to mention the destruction of submarines. It is very odd that some freedom fighters cannot be forgiven for destroying speed cameras.
WMHV70 said:
Nonegreen/John, I wasn't suggesting the "starve" was the only/best solution, but as I have a mortgage to pay, I need to be careful what I say. No doubt the NSA at Menwith Hill are tracking my every post, and sending the details to the professional standards people at HQ...
Just wait till they get your biometric data card sorted mate, you wont be able to fart without em knowing about it!
WMHV70 said:
Nonegreen/John, I wasn't suggesting the "starve" was the only/best solution, but as I have a mortgage to pay, I need to be careful what I say. No doubt the NSA at Menwith Hill are tracking my every post, and sending the details to the professional standards people at HQ...
I know I wasn't flaming you,
honest. I thought you might have a slightly different view on why the greeny vandals are treated differently than the motorist freedom fighters when caught?
Nonegreen/John...
To put my neck on the line here, I do think some speed enforcement (not necessarily GATSO or whatever) is needed. We have a number of "community" speed sites where we do enforcement at the request of locals. These are often near schools/rec grounds/housing estates, but I'll only do them with the LTI 20-20 at the relevant time (ie when the kids are about).
Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of spin about cameras (from both sides), and the net result would appear to be that we (TrafPol Bib) get a lot of flak when we're doing normal traffic stuff, ie stopping sheddy Escorts, AStras and the like with 4 s***ts on board. As I see it, the problem is that too many Traffic Departments are getting slashed, and the PCs replaced with cameras...
The problem with this is, the camera doesn't actually REPLACE a PC. It only detects one type of offence (I know people disagree whether it's an offence or not, but I'm sure you take my point), whereas a PC can not only detect a whole lot more, we do it over a wider area, and can use discretion.
Hey, we might even avoid alienating the public, who've been waiting two days to see someone after ringing the nick...
But biometric cards... not too sure they're a bad idea... if you're a fine upstanding member of the community, and not in that Escort/Astra/Nova... (tongue firmly in cheek(?))
To put my neck on the line here, I do think some speed enforcement (not necessarily GATSO or whatever) is needed. We have a number of "community" speed sites where we do enforcement at the request of locals. These are often near schools/rec grounds/housing estates, but I'll only do them with the LTI 20-20 at the relevant time (ie when the kids are about).
Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of spin about cameras (from both sides), and the net result would appear to be that we (TrafPol Bib) get a lot of flak when we're doing normal traffic stuff, ie stopping sheddy Escorts, AStras and the like with 4 s***ts on board. As I see it, the problem is that too many Traffic Departments are getting slashed, and the PCs replaced with cameras...
The problem with this is, the camera doesn't actually REPLACE a PC. It only detects one type of offence (I know people disagree whether it's an offence or not, but I'm sure you take my point), whereas a PC can not only detect a whole lot more, we do it over a wider area, and can use discretion.
Hey, we might even avoid alienating the public, who've been waiting two days to see someone after ringing the nick...
But biometric cards... not too sure they're a bad idea... if you're a fine upstanding member of the community, and not in that Escort/Astra/Nova... (tongue firmly in cheek(?))
and why do the "greenies" (as you call them) get treated differently? To be honest, I sometimes wonder if two sets of Magistrtaes or two sets of judges heard identical cases whether they'd reach identical verdicts...
I don't think they would. Human nature.
Edited to add: Apologies for the poor typing/spelling!
>> Edited by WMHV70 on Tuesday 11th May 23:30
I don't think they would. Human nature.
Edited to add: Apologies for the poor typing/spelling!
>> Edited by WMHV70 on Tuesday 11th May 23:30
deltaf said:
Agreed. Try organising it tho. No one will put themselves out to do it.
Its all the same attitude, waiting to see what someone else will do first, instead of making a stand and putting it all on the line for something you beleive in.
Ive not met anyone (besides me
Motorists in this country are completely lethargic when it comes to standing up for themselves.
Thats why we have 3 million of em as lambs to the slaughter coming up this year.
Believe me id do the deed at the chosen moment, but if its only me, or you and a half dozen, then whats the point?
Until drivers are prepared to stand up and actually make a statement, itll remain as it is, and itll get worse, a whole lot worse.
I tried finding Captain Gatso.....That's why I first came here, to see how things are organised. Even thought about taking a few out myself. Whoops, that's my IP logged
If anyone was serious about this sort of thing it should be organised via a different medium, or using public access PC's and fake hotmail accounts that change regularly and posting under different names.
Damn, I shouldn't have said that, it would be impossible to trace you if you did that.
Disclaimer
I do not condone people wrecking speed cameras and am talking purely hypothetically, apart from how to avoid being caught, because that info is in the public domain
Well, no further forward really.
I raise an eyebrow at the ideas mentioned above.
The "Starve them" method as well as a 1/2 hour mayhem session!
So what we have decided is that evasion by radiation emission is a waste of thinking time.?
One problem I see is that you are accountable and traceable with your internet access. (My perspective).
By tracking cookies, advertising (mainly) companies can tie together an email, message board(s),internet habits of parallel sites. This information can be collated and stored not on your computer. Also, your activity on Internet explorer resides in index.dat which you cannot delete or modify the contents of (easily). Short of deleting cookies as they land in your computer, using public computers and anonymous emails (getting hard to do). That is from the perspective that you are organising yourself as a non-computer nerd to organise a whole bunch of non-computer nerds to destroy Britains speed cameras. In reality, a big trail of droppings would lead right up to the doors of a lot of "suspects". Having spoken to a few people regarding the nature of official secrets, I would say that if this information is recordable/accessable, they are probably accessing it.
I speak probably for a lot of us when I say I have a militant streak and would be down for the cause. However, I am not prepared to lose my freedom when I get caught. Weighing up the probabilities, I think the Law has the edge. therefore, I will do nothing.
How anonymous your internet activities are is an interesting semi-masked, hype surrounded curiosity. I have little more than the bud of an idea. I would rather write erring on the paranoid, in order to not be held accountable for anything.
I raise an eyebrow at the ideas mentioned above.
The "Starve them" method as well as a 1/2 hour mayhem session!
So what we have decided is that evasion by radiation emission is a waste of thinking time.?
One problem I see is that you are accountable and traceable with your internet access. (My perspective).
By tracking cookies, advertising (mainly) companies can tie together an email, message board(s),internet habits of parallel sites. This information can be collated and stored not on your computer. Also, your activity on Internet explorer resides in index.dat which you cannot delete or modify the contents of (easily). Short of deleting cookies as they land in your computer, using public computers and anonymous emails (getting hard to do). That is from the perspective that you are organising yourself as a non-computer nerd to organise a whole bunch of non-computer nerds to destroy Britains speed cameras. In reality, a big trail of droppings would lead right up to the doors of a lot of "suspects". Having spoken to a few people regarding the nature of official secrets, I would say that if this information is recordable/accessable, they are probably accessing it.
I speak probably for a lot of us when I say I have a militant streak and would be down for the cause. However, I am not prepared to lose my freedom when I get caught. Weighing up the probabilities, I think the Law has the edge. therefore, I will do nothing.
How anonymous your internet activities are is an interesting semi-masked, hype surrounded curiosity. I have little more than the bud of an idea. I would rather write erring on the paranoid, in order to not be held accountable for anything.
WMHV70 said:
Nonegreen/John...
To put my neck on the line here, I do think some speed enforcement (not necessarily GATSO or whatever) is needed. We have a number of "community" speed sites where we do enforcement at the request of locals. These are often near schools/rec grounds/housing estates, but I'll only do them with the LTI 20-20 at the relevant time (ie when the kids are about).
Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of spin about cameras (from both sides), and the net result would appear to be that we (TrafPol Bib) get a lot of flak when we're doing normal traffic stuff, ie stopping sheddy Escorts, AStras and the like with 4 s***ts on board. As I see it, the problem is that too many Traffic Departments are getting slashed, and the PCs replaced with cameras...
The problem with this is, the camera doesn't actually REPLACE a PC. It only detects one type of offence (I know people disagree whether it's an offence or not, but I'm sure you take my point), whereas a PC can not only detect a whole lot more, we do it over a wider area, and can use discretion.
Hey, we might even avoid alienating the public, who've been waiting two days to see someone after ringing the nick...
But biometric cards... not too sure they're a bad idea... if you're a fine upstanding member of the community, and not in that Escort/Astra/Nova... (tongue firmly in cheek(?))
We have been saying this all the time!
LanCASH££re cop?
(Going off post where you said you were itsy bit further South than Cumbria?) If you are Lancs - you have far too many Gatsos there - I know cos I have to drive past some of the 
things and so does the Mad Doc! Only thing I disagree with - biometric cards - have long fluttery eyelashes - so they would not work for me! Besides - am a rebel and would probably not carry it at all! But then again - would the biometric do-dah technology trig a scam fo j- walkers
Or that pesky cyclist with death wish! (The one who cycles wrong way in outer lane of dual carriageway) Now that is forward technology - persecute j-walkers and cyclists and leave drivers alone! The cameras are here to stay for the foreseeable at least, so please try and stick to the speed limit to avoid points and a ban.
Like I said, I don't disagree with ALL speed sites, but I do appreciate how the cameras are aleinating the public...
"Sorry, officer, didn't see that house being burgled, I was watching my speedo..."
Some are right, some perhaps aren't. Balance is what is required.
Like I said, I don't disagree with ALL speed sites, but I do appreciate how the cameras are aleinating the public...
"Sorry, officer, didn't see that house being burgled, I was watching my speedo..."
Some are right, some perhaps aren't. Balance is what is required.
deltaf said:Mmm... permanently lying flat below the rear windscreen with tape attached. Looking as though it's recently fallen away (you probably have to put some effort into keeping tape marks on the rear window too. It's probably also worth making sure that (for stick-ons) there's the remains of tape on the back of the plate and the back of the car too.
Remove or obstruct the plate.
But with all that you could probably get away with a warning or producer for a long time.
Well, My solution is slow, but it IS legal and there is Fk all they can do about it.
Make damn sure that your local councilor and his buddies on the council, (who are part of the scamera partnership in YOUR area) is made FULLY aware that you and everyone that you know will NOT be voting for them again until things change. Local pressure groups of motorists could make a difference to their views come election time.
MP's and Political parties are not immune either, it's about time they were left in NO DOUBT of the general publics feelings about chasing and criminalising ordinary people in this way.
Added to the "camera" debate is also the ridiculous 80% tax on petrol! They didn't have taxes like this in the middle ages when Robin Hood was a lad!
The Government is concerned at the moment about "voter apathy," Lets see what they think when it gets down around 5% turnout!
UNLESS! of course someone stands up and says they ARE going to END IT!
But we'll only give them, ONE chance!
k all they can do about it. Make damn sure that your local councilor and his buddies on the council, (who are part of the scamera partnership in YOUR area) is made FULLY aware that you and everyone that you know will NOT be voting for them again until things change. Local pressure groups of motorists could make a difference to their views come election time.
MP's and Political parties are not immune either, it's about time they were left in NO DOUBT of the general publics feelings about chasing and criminalising ordinary people in this way.
Added to the "camera" debate is also the ridiculous 80% tax on petrol! They didn't have taxes like this in the middle ages when Robin Hood was a lad!
The Government is concerned at the moment about "voter apathy," Lets see what they think when it gets down around 5% turnout!
UNLESS! of course someone stands up and says they ARE going to END IT!
But we'll only give them, ONE chance!
8Pack said:Won't happen! They're stuff the postal vote to more than that! Of course, some of those votes will be delivered to the wrong address, some will be stolen, some will be eaten by snails, but most will simply arrive too late to be counted. Even so, they'll still be included in the turnout tally! - Streaky
[ ... ]
The Government is concerned at the moment about "voter apathy," Lets see what they think when it gets down around 5% turnout!
Cynical, moi?
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