Who decides if a car is an automatic or not?
Discussion
In terms of DVLA, insurance and if you only have an automatic driving license??
In years past it was an easy question, but today you can get manually operated automatic gearboxes and automatically operated manual gearboxes. And I dare say a few in between too.
Is it down to what a car maker claims or is there some overriding authority?
In years past it was an easy question, but today you can get manually operated automatic gearboxes and automatically operated manual gearboxes. And I dare say a few in between too.
Is it down to what a car maker claims or is there some overriding authority?
Personally, I'd define an auto as something where you don't have to touch anything with your hands to change gear. Stuff like sequential gearboxes, I'd call manual but that's unlikely in a car you'd be doing your test in...
f
k knows, DSG and the like really do muddy the waters a bit. I'd imagine that you can only get a manual licence if you do your test in a car using a gearstick and a clutch. I await correction though.
f
k knows, DSG and the like really do muddy the waters a bit. I'd imagine that you can only get a manual licence if you do your test in a car using a gearstick and a clutch. I await correction though.Are you thinking about your Smart Roadster with its semi-auto jobbie?
I suppose the insurance risk would be the same regardless of how you classify the transmission, because they never sold a manual version did they? (Which is a shame by the way)
Do you think there might be a price change if you could re-classify it?
I suppose the insurance risk would be the same regardless of how you classify the transmission, because they never sold a manual version did they? (Which is a shame by the way)
Do you think there might be a price change if you could re-classify it?
ewenm said:
This. Automatic-only licence tells me the driver doesn't know how to use a clutch, so can't drive any cars with a clutch pedal.
My gut instinct would be this. Though it is an interesting question. I wonder if we'll have tests based on gearboxes? Could become tricky with all the variations though.
Colonial said:
doogz said:
Are you asking, or stating?
I was thinking about this too recently, specifically DSG boxes. They are electronically operated manual gearboxes. but they don't have a clutch pedal. So are they manual, or auto?
Auto - you can just leave them in D or S and forget about it.I was thinking about this too recently, specifically DSG boxes. They are electronically operated manual gearboxes. but they don't have a clutch pedal. So are they manual, or auto?
I believe the deciding factor is a clutch which is explicitly, manually, operated by the driver.
DSGs are automatics. "Automatic" does not make any statement on the presence or a torque converter or clutch plate (indeed many automatics have both, these days); it's purely down to the control mechanism. So a motorbike style sequential box is a manual but a DSG isn't.
DSGs are automatics. "Automatic" does not make any statement on the presence or a torque converter or clutch plate (indeed many automatics have both, these days); it's purely down to the control mechanism. So a motorbike style sequential box is a manual but a DSG isn't.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 7th April 13:50
FreeLitres said:
Are you thinking about your Smart Roadster with its semi-auto jobbie?
I suppose the insurance risk would be the same regardless of how you classify the transmission, because they never sold a manual version did they? (Which is a shame by the way)
Do you think there might be a price change if you could re-classify it?
I was curious on a hypothetical level more than anything. The Roadster is a good case though. It has a manual box and you can manually select gears. It also has a clutch, but it's operated by a solenoid not a pedal. I suppose the insurance risk would be the same regardless of how you classify the transmission, because they never sold a manual version did they? (Which is a shame by the way)
Do you think there might be a price change if you could re-classify it?
But there are lots of examples, Ferrari F1 boxes. The Aston Vanguish and DB9; one is an automatically controlled manual, the other a manually controlled auto.
I'm curious to know where these cars sit with the DVLA? Cars with 'flappy-paddle' gearboxes are manual in so much as you choose when to change gear and have to initiate each gear-change, but most of these cars also have a full-auto mode. Can you drive one on an auto licence as long as you use it in full-auto mode, or does changing gear with your hands not count as manual as long as there's no clutch too?
Does anyone know why this odd exception was allowed and is allowed to continue?
Surely, unless you've got a medical issue that precludes use of a clutch, you should be able to show the ability to drive any car when you take your test?
Then you could go on and chose whichever type of gearbox you choose.
It seems like having a licence that doesn't require you to use your indicators or keep left on a multi-lane road... oh wait...
M.
Surely, unless you've got a medical issue that precludes use of a clutch, you should be able to show the ability to drive any car when you take your test?
Then you could go on and chose whichever type of gearbox you choose.
It seems like having a licence that doesn't require you to use your indicators or keep left on a multi-lane road... oh wait...
M.
DSA Standard Operating Procedure (Massive PDF here)
Page 144 said:
SEMI-AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics.
Pretty interesting section also covers doing the driving test in a car with hill assist, self parking and electronic handbrakes. With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics.
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