Anyone here senior in NHS HR?

[Ray Singh]

Got some problems with job leveling across NHS hospitals.

Its really starting to effect health now as current management refuse to even match exactly the same job pay/grade as performed at another hospital 40 miles away.

Ive have been given the run around for many months now. I am currently grade 3 and the job i am performing is a grade 7.

Any help is appreciated.

[rog007]

Are you in a FT?

[Ray Singh]

sorry, what does that mean? Full time?

[Countdown]

Grade 3 to Grade 7 ?? Have you seen the Job Description for the other role? Its just that the gap between the two is between £15k and £25k.

I used to work in NHS Finance - is this part of Agenda for Change as I thought that had finished some time ago?

With regards to general Single Status / Pay & Grading / Job Evaluation exercises your employer isn't obliged to match your job to a similar role with another employer, only to jobs of equal value WITHIN the same employer. Having said that logically in the NHS you would expect the roles and outcomes to be broadly comparable.

[Countdown]

FT = Foundation Trust I'm guessing

[rog007]

Foundation Trust.

"Senior NHS trust managers typically earn £147,500, while those working in foundation trusts – which can set their own pay – receive £10,000 more a year on average." http://www.metro.co.uk/news/821244-senior-nhs-mana...

[Countdown]

I think that means Chief Execs, not all senior managers (and definitely not most).

[rog007]

rog007 said:

"...while those working in foundation trusts – which can set their own pay"

was the point being made, rather than the numerical.

[Ray Singh]

Thanks for clarification. Yes its part of a foundation trust.

My wife was employed to conduct a specific job at pay band 2. She applied for an advertised role, the job description of which was exactly that of the job she was currently performing. This job is JG 7.

She approached her current FT manager who has not been very good at dealing with this and promised her a intermeadiate jump, but we think that this isnt enough. Also the intermeadiate jump never actually happens. They have been promising this for a long time.

I thought the agenda for change program was to level all jobs across the NHS, so someone doing a job title (x) in Stoke, is paid the same as a person doing the same job in Southampton...?

Where she works seems to be very cleaky and she is not used to this having worked in the commercial inductry sector previously.

[rog007]

Agenda for Change did indeed attempt to map and equate Bands; what your problem may be is that similar roles may have attracted different Bands.

[Countdown]

Ray Singh

Have your wife's employers implemented AfC (or any Pay & Grading exercise)? I'm guessing it hasn't and your wife's line manager promised her a honorarium in the interim? Line managers cannot arbitrarily give staff regrades, it normally needs a senior manager AND HR to review and approve.

There will always be variations in grade for the same job between different employers. Regardless of JDs no 2 jobs are exactly the same and even if they were the people carrying out the evaluation will be different.

[XDA]

The whole AfG stuff was just a joke, more people lost out than gained.

I worked in IT and I was a band 4, yet the same job 40 miles away was a band 5?

[XDA]

XDA said:

The whole AfC stuff was just a joke, more people lost out than gained.

I worked in IT and I was a band 4, yet the same job 40 miles away was a band 5?

[Countdown]

rog007 said:

rog007 said:

"...while those working in foundation trusts – which can set their own pay"

was the point being made, rather than the numerical.

In practise pay rates / bandings are broadly similar - I would be surprised if there was more than 1 band variation between 2 similar jobs.

[Ray Singh]

So if there is an issue, who could one ask for help?

This hospital seems to be very cleaky at a senior management level. HR are also part of it and bullying is common place.
The problem is that we need the money to pay the bills.

[Countdown]

There will be an internal Grievance procedure (which she should be able to use and escalate up to senior manager level if she isn't happy). Once that's exhausted you have the option of taking them to Employment Tribunal.

For free advice try Citizens Advice or ACAS.

RS - it seems that her grievance is that

(a) Her job isn't fairly graded / remunerated
(b) Her line manager has made promises which haven't been kept

Is this correct? If so then I would suggest the Grievance procedure is the correct path to follow.

[Ray Singh]

Another employee has used the greviance procedure as her only way to make things better. Basically the output is that she is being performance managed out.

She has had to take sick leave due to depression.

[Countdown]

Speak to a Union rep ?

[Carlton Banks]

Isn't this the norm everywhere, in every signal organisation?

Not everyone is born equal or has the same skills.

I know for a fact that everyone in my team is on a different salary based upon various circumstances based around experience, their negotiation skills when it came to their salary, their competence etc yet they are the same grade.

Or is the NHS different?

[Countdown]

Carlton Banks said:

Isn't this the norm everywhere, in every signal organisation?

Not everyone is born equal or has the same skills.

I know for a fact that everyone in my team is on a different salary based upon various circumstances based around experience, their negotiation skills when it came to their salary, their competence etc yet they are the same grade.

Or is the NHS different?

Within the Public Sector there have been a lot of cases where employees have sued Employers because they felt that the pay for their job was unfair due to sex discrimination. e.g. Dinner ladies felt that they should be paid the same as bin men, admin roles (occupied mainly by female staff) did not attract bonuses/enhanced pay unlike road sweepers etc etc.

To avoid Sex Discrimination tribunals PS employers have to carry out Single Status / Pay & Grading / Job Evaluation exercises so that all posts of "Equal value" can be assessed against a fair and transparent framework, consisting of roughly 10 criteria such as Qualifications, Stress factors, Environmental conditions, mgmt responsibilities etc, Depending on their score they are put into a pay band.

So its not necessarily how good/bad you are, its more what the requirements of your post should be.

If "X" number of people are doing the same job then they should in theory all be paid the same rate.