Have I Got the Infamous TVR Hot Start Problem?
Discussion
In the poo again with 'Her' and my 'Plastic Car'Back on the road after winter hibernation, new battery, out for good run. Stopped for 20 mins, and really sluggish turning over. Just like a knacker battery. Her response, I wouldn't plan any long trips. Bo**acks. Anyway at home tried starting again, same response; just about turning over and eventually starting. A voltage check across the battery gave 12.45 volts. Running,13.8 volts,with loads 13.75 volts. I've cleaned battery posts and the one earth on the drivers side chassis outrigger, (Easy to get to) not sure if it plays any part in the starting system? Starter was replaced 3 years ago and as mentioned a new Hal*ords Calcuim batery. Car is back on the Automate charger at the moment for work tomorrow. So any thoughts please? Go for the Modwise starter upgrade? Or have I perhaps got a duff battery or a chargering problem? 13.8 volts doesn't seem a lot but is constant with load? Where is the main earth from the battery? Thanks for any advice. John042
The mod sorts out the feed to the solenoid. It can't fix partial power loss to the starter motor. Symptoms of a hot start problem are that the starter won't turn at all until the small switching wires cool down. Once cool the starter motor will engage as normal. The solenoid acts like a big switch that switches the power onto the starter motor, the hot start issue results in there being insufficient power to engage the solenoid and therefore the switch.
spend said:
Disagree Bob, the classic problem is caused by the mechanical part of the solenoid seizing up. All the chaps that have had solenoids that can be serviced just strip, clean, re-grease & away they go. So it would seem that the mechanical lubrication in the solenoid gets melted away and the additional heat expansion just pushes tolerances of the sliding bits OTT. That is why I am very dubious about the 'stick more electricity' down the wire to force it to close. The relay is a good workaround to bypass the puny immobiliser circuit, but that is all IMHO.
Yes I agree, there are two issues working together to cause the hot start problem, solving either will often be enough, solving both is even better. In this case the OP is discussing reduced power to the starter motor. Whether it be signal wiring or sticky soleniod the symptoms described do not relate to the 'classic' hot start issue.
I hope by adding to this thread i dont "tempt fate" but here goes.I had been following posts of hot start issues for some months and read them all with interest. Ill be honest and did not really understand the implications of "more power needed to turn the motor" fitted the "hot start kit" and now no more problems.etc etc
For me I.M.O the problem is the usual culprit of excess heat.The starter and more importantly the solenoid are very close to the offside exhaust manifold. I would agree with spend in his description of what the hot start problem really is.
I decided then as a precaution to fit an insulated heat shield which encapsulates the starter and solenoid to protect it from the heat off the manifold.This was approx 2 years ago when i first purchased the car. I had never experienced any hot start problems but decided prevention is better than cure.
I cannot vouch for or against the hot start kit but if you fit a new starter i would fit a heat shield to protect it, Tom.
For me I.M.O the problem is the usual culprit of excess heat.The starter and more importantly the solenoid are very close to the offside exhaust manifold. I would agree with spend in his description of what the hot start problem really is.
I decided then as a precaution to fit an insulated heat shield which encapsulates the starter and solenoid to protect it from the heat off the manifold.This was approx 2 years ago when i first purchased the car. I had never experienced any hot start problems but decided prevention is better than cure.
I cannot vouch for or against the hot start kit but if you fit a new starter i would fit a heat shield to protect it, Tom.
When I had the 'hot start problem' last summer, the starter wouldn't turn at all. Absolutely zilch when I turned the key. The Modwise kit sorted it out and have had no problems since.
So the symptoms sound a bit different, however if your car hasn't had this mod. it's probably worth doing anyway - it only costs about £30 (less if you source the bits yourself) and takes 20 mins to fit.
So the symptoms sound a bit different, however if your car hasn't had this mod. it's probably worth doing anyway - it only costs about £30 (less if you source the bits yourself) and takes 20 mins to fit.
dog man said:
This all sounds spot on, I don't disagree but is it not worth checking the timing also? If it's firing too early once hot, the starter will have trouble turning it over and it will seem like a flat battery
This has ZERO to do with the problem! The Starter Motor does not turn because the Solenoid does not pull back sufficiently to engage the main Starter Motor.The main issues are:
Hot or cold there might just be a click when turning the ignition switch. The Solenoid may be stuck and/or a weak connection to it. The early cars did not have a relay in circuit and the feed was direct from the ignition switch so maybe worth changing that as it's cheap. With the change in immobiliser there is a relay in circuit. The proximity to the manifold may mean the heat dries up the lubricants and the Solenoid sticks. In any case, the "hot start" kit simply provides a "better" feed to the solenoid which 'may' help overcome the "stickiness" but does not really solve the underlying issues. Often the solenoid can be cleaned and re-lubricated etc. Some Starter Motors may be better made and have better heat protection.
Could it possibly be the alternator is faulty/isnt charging.I think the 100 amp fuse protects the charging side of the circuit. has that blown?. OP states he has fitted a new battery recently,but the ecu and the ignition draw quite a current, so with a non charging alternator he could quite easily flatten the battery in no time. I would first
recharge/check the battery. refit and try to turn it over. If it turns over as normal. then the battery isnt getting charged. Would then check the 100 amp fuse and check the alternator, hope this helps Tom.
recharge/check the battery. refit and try to turn it over. If it turns over as normal. then the battery isnt getting charged. Would then check the 100 amp fuse and check the alternator, hope this helps Tom.
Edited by TJC46 on Monday 11th April 18:34
Thanks for all the replies. A further update is that after a nights charging it started but very slow turning over. At work further investigation with slaved earths etc produced the same. Even a jump pack failed to rotate the engine at start speed with mechanical distress from the starter motor, (3 years old) So a new starter motor on order from Brooklands on recommendation from a previous post to be wary of e-b**s ones.Good price when compared with the usual TVR suppliers, I just hope I've not purchased an inferior item? Will let you the results. Cheers John042.
captaintact said:
This has ZERO to do with the problem
Hot or cold there might just be a click when turning the ignition switch
Yeah, I agree but this isn't the OP's symptom!Hot or cold there might just be a click when turning the ignition switch
John042 said:
really sluggish turning over. Just like a knacker battery
Which is exactly what happens with too much advanceJust an update Chaps. New starter fitted, problem solved. As to the 'Hot Start Issue' I don't think it was the original problem, as am I right? That Mod provides a full power supply to the starter soleniod? On further investigation on my removed starter, the static field windings had become un-bonded and were trying to rotate with the armature obviously the symptom of poor starting. Not Mr Halfords new battery! The removed starter was 3 yrs old. The replacement I've insulated with a wrap round metallic adhesive aircraft skin foil (Speed Tape) Anyway thanks for all the helpful replies, Cheers John042
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff