Why a Nissan GTR is faster than a Honda Fireblade
Discussion
Controversy ahoy!
Not only am I going to suggest that the GTR is an incredible piece of well thought-out, well engineered machinery and the quickest point-to-point car I've been in but I'm also going to claim that its point-to-point ability exceeds that of a contemporary superbike.
First of all, lets get the caveats out of the way. I'm not Casey Stoner, Valentino Rossi or Dani Pedrosa - my waistline probably equals the aggregate of the three of them - and secondly, I haven't been in every car ever made. I have, however, driven many, many sports cars and a good handful of supercars and exotics.
I can't say I'm a fan of the GTR's styling with its huge tail lights and huge exhausts making it look like a badly drawn caricature of an R34 Skyline but meh, styling is for the people on the outside who aren't fortunate enough to be on the inside. The ride is painful, even in comfort setting, and every bump and pothole is transmitted through your body with all the subtlety and delicacy of gang-rape. That said, the effect is heavily muted once the car's up to speed and that really doesn't take very long at all.
The GTR takes off like a scalded cat and it's genuinely impressive to feel that vast slab of car being propelled forward so quickly and with such consummate ease. Aurally it's a bit tedious, unless you particularly enjoy the cacophony of gearbox whine over a muted whistling turbo or two.
Anyway, back to the point; I firmly believe that due to the way the GTR carries itself through corners with the combination of its rapid gearbox and vast amount of poke that it's more than capable of besting a superbike on a clear road and probably with very little effort.
I think I want one. Probably not a silver one, though.
Not only am I going to suggest that the GTR is an incredible piece of well thought-out, well engineered machinery and the quickest point-to-point car I've been in but I'm also going to claim that its point-to-point ability exceeds that of a contemporary superbike.
First of all, lets get the caveats out of the way. I'm not Casey Stoner, Valentino Rossi or Dani Pedrosa - my waistline probably equals the aggregate of the three of them - and secondly, I haven't been in every car ever made. I have, however, driven many, many sports cars and a good handful of supercars and exotics.
I can't say I'm a fan of the GTR's styling with its huge tail lights and huge exhausts making it look like a badly drawn caricature of an R34 Skyline but meh, styling is for the people on the outside who aren't fortunate enough to be on the inside. The ride is painful, even in comfort setting, and every bump and pothole is transmitted through your body with all the subtlety and delicacy of gang-rape. That said, the effect is heavily muted once the car's up to speed and that really doesn't take very long at all.
The GTR takes off like a scalded cat and it's genuinely impressive to feel that vast slab of car being propelled forward so quickly and with such consummate ease. Aurally it's a bit tedious, unless you particularly enjoy the cacophony of gearbox whine over a muted whistling turbo or two.
Anyway, back to the point; I firmly believe that due to the way the GTR carries itself through corners with the combination of its rapid gearbox and vast amount of poke that it's more than capable of besting a superbike on a clear road and probably with very little effort.
I think I want one. Probably not a silver one, though.
Asterix said:
I thought most performance cars would out-do a superbike on normal roads.
I personally think that's a bit of a myth and indeed can happily bear testament to a lot of performance cars failing to deliver on the front.I think the GTR just has a fairly unique combination of attributes which make for seriously fast road driving, possibly due to its 'honed for the ring' development s
t.Asterix said:
I thought most performance cars would out-do a superbike on normal roads.
Even on track, the cars often win thanks to faster corner speeds & increased braking ability.
I agree. On the straight those big powered bikes piss on just about everything but they're not nearly as impressive on a bendy b road.Even on track, the cars often win thanks to faster corner speeds & increased braking ability.
Asterix said:
I thought most performance cars would out-do a superbike on normal roads.
Even on track, the cars often win thanks to faster corner speeds & increased braking ability.
And I think you have to be a competitively better rider than a driver to get most out of a bikeEven on track, the cars often win thanks to faster corner speeds & increased braking ability.
I've just got my 600cc hornet but at the minute I cover ground more consistently and quicker through corners in my Audi TT never mind a proper performance car!
Once my balls grow I'm sure the bike will be less intimidating but it's sooooo much easier to get the most out of a car - especially one wrapped in AWD and tricks
superman84 said:
I agree. On the straight those big powered bikes piss on just about everything but they're not nearly as impressive on a bendy b road.
Disagree. Its all about the rider.I used to be of exactly your opinion, back when I had an NSX. There's a bit of road local to me that I probably know a bit too well. Most times bikes held me up. Then I remember one day tooling along and saw a biker pull out of a junction, right before my favourite twisty section of road. My eyes rolled. They stopped rolling when the biker naffed off into the distance.
Bikes have plenty of corner grip, and they have much more freedom to pick lines too, but there aren't many riders with balls big enough. Or perhaps they're just not foolhardy.
scampbird said:
Bikes have plenty of corner grip, and they have much more freedom to pick lines too, but there aren't many riders with balls big enough. Or perhaps they're just not foolhardy.
Quite. If I could absolutely guarantee perfect road conditions and no traffic, I'm fairly sure I could best the GTR but these circumstances never happen. The real world has potholes, dead badgers and gravel to slow down the bikes and traffic to slow down the cars.Autocar covered this topic last year, ok not a Fireblade but a fairly comparable superbike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Man0X0bf8vk
3secs quicker over a lap of Cadwell, and that's a big lump of a car to be hustling around Cadwell, one can only imagine what a lighter car with better power to weight ratio would have done.
And before anyone says I know this is on a track, but I'd say out of all the circuits in the UK Cadwell is one of the most similar to a road scenario.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Man0X0bf8vk
3secs quicker over a lap of Cadwell, and that's a big lump of a car to be hustling around Cadwell, one can only imagine what a lighter car with better power to weight ratio would have done.
And before anyone says I know this is on a track, but I'd say out of all the circuits in the UK Cadwell is one of the most similar to a road scenario.
I'm yet to ride a bike (although I'm planning on learning soon) but from observations of driving about I'd reckon that on a twisty enough road the average person probably could go faster in the GTR. I think it's a bit of an exception though. With my limited talents, even though cornering speeds could be higher in cars than bikes, I doubt I'd have the ability or the commitment to make any headway in anything else. If I was in something like a race Mini or some other racey-ish front driver where you can get on the power very early and chuck it into the corners I'd be more within my comfort zone but then you wouldn't have anywhere near enough power to keep ahead.
You aren't really comparing like with like here...
A mediocre driver will be faster than a mediocre rider in this situation. This is because the GTR has traction control, stability control, ABS, four wheel drive, air bags, crumple zones etc, and if it loses grip it probably won't crash.
However, with a decent rider a bike will probably be quicker. As said, a bike has more choice of lines and can probably straightline a lot of what would be major corners in the car.
If you want to compare like with like then a better test would be a GTR against a BMW S1000RR which does have traction control and ABS. Even so, if the rider crashes the danger of death is much greater.
The other week someone asked if a car would be faster around the TT course. Knowing how many of the 'corners' on the TT course are laid out, I'd say a bike with an experienced rider would win by a country mile.
Its also probably worth noting that I went out on my 1989 Yamaha FZR 400 at the weekend, and a guy on an R1 was desperately trying to keep up with me but couldn't. I wasn't really even trying, but the way he wobbled around a roundabout was telling. I'm not really a quick rider, but there are a lot of bikers out there with machinery that far exceeds their level of ability. This, combined with fear of death or injury and a fear of being hit by almost two tons of metal means that all road 'competition' and most track competition is meaningless really.
I like bikes, I like cars, but they don't ever really cross over in my mind. Each does a different thing.
A mediocre driver will be faster than a mediocre rider in this situation. This is because the GTR has traction control, stability control, ABS, four wheel drive, air bags, crumple zones etc, and if it loses grip it probably won't crash.
However, with a decent rider a bike will probably be quicker. As said, a bike has more choice of lines and can probably straightline a lot of what would be major corners in the car.
If you want to compare like with like then a better test would be a GTR against a BMW S1000RR which does have traction control and ABS. Even so, if the rider crashes the danger of death is much greater.
The other week someone asked if a car would be faster around the TT course. Knowing how many of the 'corners' on the TT course are laid out, I'd say a bike with an experienced rider would win by a country mile.
Its also probably worth noting that I went out on my 1989 Yamaha FZR 400 at the weekend, and a guy on an R1 was desperately trying to keep up with me but couldn't. I wasn't really even trying, but the way he wobbled around a roundabout was telling. I'm not really a quick rider, but there are a lot of bikers out there with machinery that far exceeds their level of ability. This, combined with fear of death or injury and a fear of being hit by almost two tons of metal means that all road 'competition' and most track competition is meaningless really.
I like bikes, I like cars, but they don't ever really cross over in my mind. Each does a different thing.
Edited by MarJay on Monday 11th April 10:43
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