Drove a Citroen C Zero today....
Discussion
Well, not the best post on a Forum dedicated to petrolheads, but I drove a C- Zero today
At work, I sit next to the guy that deals with a fleet of around 500 cars, so there's always demonstrators in, that 4 or 5 of us grab to have a go and give some feedback.
This week's delicacy was Citroen's version of the Mitsubishi all electric thingy. Grabbed it at lunch time and took for a 10 mile spin (full of raging cynicism)
A little wierd at "start-up", but once it got going you would never know that it didn't have a piston engine under the bonnet.
Gotta say that I was mightily impressed! Drove well, nothing blisteriong on acceleration, but good enough. Hit 70 without a problem. Claimed 80 top speed. Not impressed by the crap range (57 miles on 3/4 of a "tank" of electricity)
A well spec'd car, but for me, an eco-vehicle can do without all the unnecessary electrics (folding mirrors, power windows etc) as all I can see is that this would drain the power. It certainly didn't like the a/c being on, as the range dropped by 15% as soon as it was engaged
Would I buy one? Not for £25k, I wouldn't. £15k maybe, but give me £25k and I'll look elsewhere..
Could I use one as a daily? Probably, but it would have to give me more range than the (claimed) 90ish miles. Also, it would be interesting to find out the real range, on a cold winter's night when everything is switched on.....
This car is definately aimed at the 15 mile and 1 hour commuters, but those of us that regularly do more, it's (for me at least) a non-starter - no pun intended.
After driving it, I can't seem to find anything about what it actually costs to top-up (ie how much juice it will pull from your household supply), so it would be intertesting to learn what the real running costs are, when it's been plugged into your power socket for the required 6-hour top up.
For me, the key message about this car, is that the dealer trailered it the 40-odd miles to our site. Sort of says it all really
Is this really the future?
OK, I'll get my coat now
BTW. I prefer a V8....
At work, I sit next to the guy that deals with a fleet of around 500 cars, so there's always demonstrators in, that 4 or 5 of us grab to have a go and give some feedback.
This week's delicacy was Citroen's version of the Mitsubishi all electric thingy. Grabbed it at lunch time and took for a 10 mile spin (full of raging cynicism)
A little wierd at "start-up", but once it got going you would never know that it didn't have a piston engine under the bonnet.
Gotta say that I was mightily impressed! Drove well, nothing blisteriong on acceleration, but good enough. Hit 70 without a problem. Claimed 80 top speed. Not impressed by the crap range (57 miles on 3/4 of a "tank" of electricity)
A well spec'd car, but for me, an eco-vehicle can do without all the unnecessary electrics (folding mirrors, power windows etc) as all I can see is that this would drain the power. It certainly didn't like the a/c being on, as the range dropped by 15% as soon as it was engaged
Would I buy one? Not for £25k, I wouldn't. £15k maybe, but give me £25k and I'll look elsewhere..
Could I use one as a daily? Probably, but it would have to give me more range than the (claimed) 90ish miles. Also, it would be interesting to find out the real range, on a cold winter's night when everything is switched on.....
This car is definately aimed at the 15 mile and 1 hour commuters, but those of us that regularly do more, it's (for me at least) a non-starter - no pun intended.
After driving it, I can't seem to find anything about what it actually costs to top-up (ie how much juice it will pull from your household supply), so it would be intertesting to learn what the real running costs are, when it's been plugged into your power socket for the required 6-hour top up.
For me, the key message about this car, is that the dealer trailered it the 40-odd miles to our site. Sort of says it all really
Is this really the future?
OK, I'll get my coat now
BTW. I prefer a V8....
Kryten ran one for a year and estimated it was an extra £150ish for a year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybNxIOS_3lU&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybNxIOS_3lU&fea...
When we put aside our in built fear of new things and look at the facts it is a different picture. My wife drives 26 miles per day to work and back in her MR2, if we go anywhere else we use my car or the Westfield or Motorhome. Now for her an electric car if the price was right and stylistically was good would be ideal for her. Where elctric falls down is the range if you want to go further afield, but this will get better with time.
We also have to understand this drive for alternative cars is driven by many things, oil getting harder to obtain easily, oil being in the hands of unstable regions of the world and the alleged effects of CO2. Now as renewables and nuclear grow that energy supply becomes more secure and the cars will get better.
Hybrides are already becoming popular as many companies re forcing drivers into them which means more in the secondhand market.
Electric is the future for commuting leaving petrol engines for pleasure.
We also have to understand this drive for alternative cars is driven by many things, oil getting harder to obtain easily, oil being in the hands of unstable regions of the world and the alleged effects of CO2. Now as renewables and nuclear grow that energy supply becomes more secure and the cars will get better.
Hybrides are already becoming popular as many companies re forcing drivers into them which means more in the secondhand market.
Electric is the future for commuting leaving petrol engines for pleasure.
Agree that for most of us they only work as a second car, can't think of any occasion that both the other half and myself would need to go more than 90 miles in a day in different cars, so they do make some sense. The price is prohibitive at the moment though, the iMiev is about £25k too and while they're cheap to run you've got do a hell of a lot of miles before it becomes cheaper than a second hand fiesta, and it's cheap motoring rather than envromentalism that will encourage more people to use them.
The range will increase and the price will come down though, but I reckon a rechargable hybrid is the way forward as you've got the electric for short trips but an engine if you need to go further.
I still wouldn't say no to a Tesla though.
The range will increase and the price will come down though, but I reckon a rechargable hybrid is the way forward as you've got the electric for short trips but an engine if you need to go further.
I still wouldn't say no to a Tesla though.
And how much do they cost to charge? And what happens when we get the power failures which are due thanks to the lack of forward thinking by the Govts? And what happens when you plug it in outside, and someone comes along after you've gone to bed and nicks your power for their car which they then drive away the next day (which you don't hear!).........
Jasandjules said:
And how much do they cost to charge? And what happens when we get the power failures which are due thanks to the lack of forward thinking by the Govts? And what happens when you plug it in outside, and someone comes along after you've gone to bed and nicks your power for their car which they then drive away the next day (which you don't hear!).........
The first one was covered above by thinforth2, I think. As for the rest, similar issues exist for petrol/diesel too; oil supplies can be interrupted (albeit with a delayed effect), and siphoning of fuel from your car could occur on your driveway overnight.V88Dicky said:
Electric only is merely a stop-gap until hydrogen fuel-cells are perfected. I wouldn't like the prospect of being lumped with an Electric Only vehicle once Fuel Cell cars are commonplace.
At the risk of retreading the elec vs fuel cell thing; that's guesswork - its quite possible there will be further advances in conventional batteries or capacitors which will mean that pure electric vehicles stay around for longer. Plus there are many different types of fuel cell, some using different sources of energy; is it already decided which one will eventually come out on top? And why would that mean the others are obsolete? We currently manage to have quite a number of fuel types for varying engines. I imagine that existing petrol stations could switch to supply methanol, hydrogen and have fast charge outlets for some theoretical standardised electric car socket.Overall, I think this car (and electric cars in general) are interesting, but its not a technology I'm going to rush into buying.
Jasandjules said:
What happens when we get the power failures which are due thanks to the lack of forward thinking by the Govts?
Why that is simple to answer you jump in your petrol powered car and drive to the nearest petrol station past the electric powered traffic lights and stop at the electric powered petrol pump before going into pay at the electric powered till.Jasandjules said:
And what happens when you plug it in outside, and someone comes along after you've gone to bed and nicks your power for their car which they then drive away the next day (which you don't hear!).........
And of course no one in the history of petrol cars has never stolen petrol and not once has anyone drilled a hole in the side of the tank to drain the fuel. It was entirely fashion that locking petrol caps were fitted.
Oh wait a minute
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Edited by thinfourth2 on Tuesday 12th April 11:32
Why has nobody sorted a system whereby the car has a removable battery that conforms to a standard that allows you to drive to a 'filling' station and have them simply remove your battery (via some crane/forklift/powered arm/docking port system) and replace it with a fully charged one and send you on your way before charging your old one to be given to someone else?
Given that all the complaints seem to be about range and charging times, it seems like an obvious solution. Sure, there'd have to be a standard agreed upon and a large infrastructure put in place, but no worse than having charging stations built or LPG tanks/pumps etc set up all over the shop.
Given that all the complaints seem to be about range and charging times, it seems like an obvious solution. Sure, there'd have to be a standard agreed upon and a large infrastructure put in place, but no worse than having charging stations built or LPG tanks/pumps etc set up all over the shop.
Uriel said:
Why has nobody sorted a system whereby the car has a removable battery that conforms to a standard that allows you to drive to a 'filling' station and have them simply remove your battery (via some crane/forklift/powered arm/docking port system) and replace it with a fully charged one and send you on your way before charging your old one to be given to someone else?
Given that all the complaints seem to be about range and charging times, it seems like an obvious solution. Sure, there'd have to be a standard agreed upon and a large infrastructure put in place, but no worse than having charging stations built or LPG tanks/pumps etc set up all over the shop.
They have done: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_PlaceGiven that all the complaints seem to be about range and charging times, it seems like an obvious solution. Sure, there'd have to be a standard agreed upon and a large infrastructure put in place, but no worse than having charging stations built or LPG tanks/pumps etc set up all over the shop.
It sounds like a good idea to me, but it makes assumptions that don't really work in a capitalist society, including: All vehicles require the same battery pack and vehicle owners are not battery owners
I don't know...I see it the way I see butane and propane tanks. You buy the electricity/gas and it comes in a battery/bottle that's one of a handful of standard sizes to suit your application (citycar/family saloon/sports/uberbarge & 4x4).
Nice to know someone is working on it though.
Nice to know someone is working on it though.
Accelebrate said:
Do the batteries in EVs loose capacity over time? Will your 25k vehicle have a range of 10 miles and be worth 50p unless you sell a leg to buy a replacement battery in 5 years time?
Yes, but Nissan estimate a 10% drop after 100,000 miles or 8 years which is not too bad. Dunno what the Citroen has, but it will be dependant on the battery management software/hardware.Mr Gear said:
Accelebrate said:
Do the batteries in EVs loose capacity over time? Will your 25k vehicle have a range of 10 miles and be worth 50p unless you sell a leg to buy a replacement battery in 5 years time?
Yes, but Nissan estimate a 10% drop after 100,000 miles or 8 years which is not too bad. Dunno what the Citroen has, but it will be dependant on the battery management software/hardware.Caulkhead said:
I'm not sure I'd trust the 'estimates' of the company trying to sell them. Do they actually guarantee those figures and warranty them, or are they just marketing guesses?
The truth is no one actually knows as electric cars are only now starting to be avaiable to buy this year for the mass market.The only folk that really know are the anti lot who KNOW the battery will be dead in 5 miles but they are morons so we shall ignore them.
thinfourth2 said:
Jasandjules said:
What happens when we get the power failures which are due thanks to the lack of forward thinking by the Govts?
Why that is simple to answer you jump in your petrol powered car and drive to the nearest petrol station past the electric powered traffic lights and stop at the electric powered petrol pump before going into pay at the electric powered till.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff