Hostile hooning?
Discussion
Interested to hear thoughts on this from a wide range of marque owners.
As the weekend was brilliant weather; i took the opportunity to head home from Edinburgh to Dumfries for the weekend, down the A701!
Now i've been driving it in mild/hot hatches for 6 years now, and i'm no Makkinen, but i know the road and the imperfections well enough to drive it hard enough to stretch my cars legs and humble faster cars/bikes if i meet someone out for a hoon and enjoys a partner in crime, so to speak.
However, on my two journeys i was met with some very nice cars (jaguar convertible, TVR and some fast bikes to name a few), who If i were met with, and they were clearly pushing on i would tend to sit back or slow down on a decent straight to let them by, so to let them get on with their fun. Seems the decent thing to do from my point of view.
Clearly however, maintaining man points seems to be a priority of some people, ahead of safety in many cases, and will do anything (Accelerating hard when someone is overtaking) or driving pointlessly erratic so to get ahead out of corners, only to slow down to crawling speed into every corner (Bikers are notoriously guilty), even when the trailing motorist is considerably faster than the leading one, and it would take no more than two seconds of slowing down to have them out of the way.
Now i'm not aggressive about trying to get by other drivers, i hate fitting to the stereotype of a younger person in a hot hatch; so i really struggle to see where the hostility comes from.
Does anyone else find this, or do i seem to fall victim to it so that the rest of Scotland gets clear roads and happy motorists?
As the weekend was brilliant weather; i took the opportunity to head home from Edinburgh to Dumfries for the weekend, down the A701!
Now i've been driving it in mild/hot hatches for 6 years now, and i'm no Makkinen, but i know the road and the imperfections well enough to drive it hard enough to stretch my cars legs and humble faster cars/bikes if i meet someone out for a hoon and enjoys a partner in crime, so to speak.
However, on my two journeys i was met with some very nice cars (jaguar convertible, TVR and some fast bikes to name a few), who If i were met with, and they were clearly pushing on i would tend to sit back or slow down on a decent straight to let them by, so to let them get on with their fun. Seems the decent thing to do from my point of view.
Clearly however, maintaining man points seems to be a priority of some people, ahead of safety in many cases, and will do anything (Accelerating hard when someone is overtaking) or driving pointlessly erratic so to get ahead out of corners, only to slow down to crawling speed into every corner (Bikers are notoriously guilty), even when the trailing motorist is considerably faster than the leading one, and it would take no more than two seconds of slowing down to have them out of the way.
Now i'm not aggressive about trying to get by other drivers, i hate fitting to the stereotype of a younger person in a hot hatch; so i really struggle to see where the hostility comes from.
Does anyone else find this, or do i seem to fall victim to it so that the rest of Scotland gets clear roads and happy motorists?
I know the road really well.
My own policy is if someone is obviously quicker I'll make it very easy for them regardless of the marque.
My findings are the majority are in their own world and usually can be easily passed if I want to. Difficulties include the straight line specialists, when dawdlers group together, and wagons or tourist buses on some parts.
I don't really recall anybody purposely being difficult there or anywhere else.
My own policy is if someone is obviously quicker I'll make it very easy for them regardless of the marque.
My findings are the majority are in their own world and usually can be easily passed if I want to. Difficulties include the straight line specialists, when dawdlers group together, and wagons or tourist buses on some parts.
I don't really recall anybody purposely being difficult there or anywhere else.
I certainly find this happening a lot more these days, but more so in the 205GTI than the Esprit. A lot of people seem to have a problem with little hot hatches... I get let past in the Esprit much more often, probably through a bit of curiosity as to what it is behind them.
What I also find more of these days is big 4x4s storming along the road to catch up with you, then tailgating you around corners as if to say 'look, I can easily keep up with you in your so-called sports car..." What, your 6-month old, £60K+, gas-guzzling monster of a machine, with huge low-profile tire, ‘sports suspension’ handling pack (that'll be good for the off-roading), traction control, ABS and power steering can keep up with my £6K 26 year old Lotus with none of the above? No S#@t! I know which car I would rather be in though.
Oh, and to the ever increasing number of people who don't dip their lights when you overtake them at night - not clever.
Rant over!
Scott
What I also find more of these days is big 4x4s storming along the road to catch up with you, then tailgating you around corners as if to say 'look, I can easily keep up with you in your so-called sports car..." What, your 6-month old, £60K+, gas-guzzling monster of a machine, with huge low-profile tire, ‘sports suspension’ handling pack (that'll be good for the off-roading), traction control, ABS and power steering can keep up with my £6K 26 year old Lotus with none of the above? No S#@t! I know which car I would rather be in though.
Oh, and to the ever increasing number of people who don't dip their lights when you overtake them at night - not clever.
Rant over!
Scott
As Dougie has already posted on Arrschleife we worried about getting stuck behind tourist traffic on Arran as there is only one big loop road.
But actually found repeatedly that the other cars would slow to crawling pace or even stop to allow us on our fairly quick way......maybe its a noisy Porsche thing or the fact that we were mob handed but everyone was great to us.
We were however locally notorious by the time we tried to get back on the ferry....nice to make an impression I suppose.
NB: Note to self - avoid A701!!
But actually found repeatedly that the other cars would slow to crawling pace or even stop to allow us on our fairly quick way......maybe its a noisy Porsche thing or the fact that we were mob handed but everyone was great to us.
We were however locally notorious by the time we tried to get back on the ferry....nice to make an impression I suppose.
NB: Note to self - avoid A701!!
I also know the A701 well.
I'm from Dumfries so I use it to travel to and from Edinburgh frequently. I only drive a diesel estate (company car) but I also come across drivers who will do whatever they can to prevent me from overtaking, despite me being a lot faster especially on the corners.
It's not the fact that you have a nice car, they just don't want anyone overtaking them.
I'm from Dumfries so I use it to travel to and from Edinburgh frequently. I only drive a diesel estate (company car) but I also come across drivers who will do whatever they can to prevent me from overtaking, despite me being a lot faster especially on the corners.
It's not the fact that you have a nice car, they just don't want anyone overtaking them.
I actually got a better reception when i used to drive my old civic, with a full spoon exhaust and very stiffly valved coilovers, generally a car that i would have thought wouldn't have liked bouncing about in their rear view; saying that i'm endlessly more confident in that car so probably get out past slower traffic without much thought to reactions etc.
I've just noticed it a lot since i bought my civic type R, my example which really ticked me off was a number of weeks ago, where i was overtaken uphill and round a corner by an X5; i was annoyed about the possibilities of a pretty serious accident with that 10ton lump heading for triple figures, but i genuinely don't get irate about other drivers, as you rarely gain anything from doing so. However when i seen the 100mph X5 slow down to 40mph as soon as he reached the foggy summit of the beeftub, i was somewhat annoyed as it became clear they didn't know the road what so ever and were merely driving like a cock as instructed in the X5 handbook. At the first available opportunity, i went to overtake, only for the X5 to floor it, potentially putting me into a corner on the wrong side of the road. I hung back and went by at a piece of the road where i knew he wouldn't have anticipated the straight. Only to see the X5 attempting to chase me down with what i seen to be 3 young kids in the car; I was shocked that someone was that bothered about being humbled by a 'slower' car that they would throw their family into corners like it was the BTCC.
Makes me want to stick to the A702 dalveen pass from now on. Last time i was up there, i sat and spoke to a group of bikers who were up there for the very same reason i was there. Generally speaking that is the only reason people are up that road, so you rarely get badge snobbery or hostile driving, or people for that matter.
I think it stems back to the problem that there is no M/Way linking the capital to the borders/England. I would imagine the beeftub and other roads round the area would be far more appealing if this was the case.
I've just noticed it a lot since i bought my civic type R, my example which really ticked me off was a number of weeks ago, where i was overtaken uphill and round a corner by an X5; i was annoyed about the possibilities of a pretty serious accident with that 10ton lump heading for triple figures, but i genuinely don't get irate about other drivers, as you rarely gain anything from doing so. However when i seen the 100mph X5 slow down to 40mph as soon as he reached the foggy summit of the beeftub, i was somewhat annoyed as it became clear they didn't know the road what so ever and were merely driving like a cock as instructed in the X5 handbook. At the first available opportunity, i went to overtake, only for the X5 to floor it, potentially putting me into a corner on the wrong side of the road. I hung back and went by at a piece of the road where i knew he wouldn't have anticipated the straight. Only to see the X5 attempting to chase me down with what i seen to be 3 young kids in the car; I was shocked that someone was that bothered about being humbled by a 'slower' car that they would throw their family into corners like it was the BTCC.
Makes me want to stick to the A702 dalveen pass from now on. Last time i was up there, i sat and spoke to a group of bikers who were up there for the very same reason i was there. Generally speaking that is the only reason people are up that road, so you rarely get badge snobbery or hostile driving, or people for that matter.
I think it stems back to the problem that there is no M/Way linking the capital to the borders/England. I would imagine the beeftub and other roads round the area would be far more appealing if this was the case.
RossB_eg4 said:
However when i seen the 100mph X5 slow down to 40mph as soon as he reached the foggy summit of the beeftub, i was somewhat annoyed as it became clear they didn't know the road what so ever
So you would have kept going at 100mph on a foggy road?Even if you know where the road goes it doesn't mean you know what hazards could be in the fog.
Rest of the subject, yes I sometimes find this, but try not to let it annoy me too much these days.
Worst offender recently was a biker, going up the A9 heading between Brora and Latheron, they could easily pull away on straights but were very slow on every bend or turn and were slow to take advantage of any overtaking opportunities, it appeared to be a female 'new' rider accompanied by a boyfriend or husband out for a run/weekend away. I was in a diesel Jeep and did eventually managed to get past them/her.
Used to happen occasionally when I had my Saxo.
Worst one was a CLS500 on the approach to Oban. He was going pretty slow, averaging 45-50 and I had sat behind for a couple of miles with no passing opportunity.
When one did present itself the driver waited 'til I was alongside him and then floored it. He then braked quite heavily as I was trying to slot behind him again.
I think he forgot how busy the one way bit in Oban is though.
I don't think it is malicious in most cases though, just zombie like dullards that do not understand basic roadcraft.
Worst one was a CLS500 on the approach to Oban. He was going pretty slow, averaging 45-50 and I had sat behind for a couple of miles with no passing opportunity.
When one did present itself the driver waited 'til I was alongside him and then floored it. He then braked quite heavily as I was trying to slot behind him again.
I think he forgot how busy the one way bit in Oban is though.
I don't think it is malicious in most cases though, just zombie like dullards that do not understand basic roadcraft.
JM said:
So you would have kept going at 100mph on a foggy road?
Even if you know where the road goes it doesn't mean you know what hazards could be in the fog.
Rest of the subject, yes I sometimes find this, but try not to let it annoy me too much these days.
Worst offender recently was a biker, going up the A9 heading between Brora and Latheron, they could easily pull away on straights but were very slow on every bend or turn and were slow to take advantage of any overtaking opportunities, it appeared to be a female 'new' rider accompanied by a boyfriend or husband out for a run/weekend away. I was in a diesel Jeep and did eventually managed to get past them/her.
I think i worded that wrong if i'm honest; i wasn't chasing the X5 down, i nearly went into the back of him when i was doing 60mph; as he hadn't bothered to turn any sort of lights on in thick fog, which always kind of lingers about the summit of the beeftub.Even if you know where the road goes it doesn't mean you know what hazards could be in the fog.
Rest of the subject, yes I sometimes find this, but try not to let it annoy me too much these days.
Worst offender recently was a biker, going up the A9 heading between Brora and Latheron, they could easily pull away on straights but were very slow on every bend or turn and were slow to take advantage of any overtaking opportunities, it appeared to be a female 'new' rider accompanied by a boyfriend or husband out for a run/weekend away. I was in a diesel Jeep and did eventually managed to get past them/her.
I sat back until you drop below the summit and the fog usually drops, before the X5 decided to return to race mode.
Bikers are terrible for it; and they are the first to give you condescending looks if you happen to have been near them as they are going so slow through every corner. The A701/702 are terrible for dawdling bikers, although you get a lot of bikers going at 10/10ths along the dalveen pass, which is quite a spectacle to see/hear through the hills.
From experience, a GSX-R 1000 can't make use of their straight line speed against a 400hp honda civic that worked incredibly well on proper roads
(Not mine, my friend built and owned it for a few years)I think you're mixing badge snobbery with handling characteristics.
There's a big difference in where a RWD car and a FWD car will hold pace. Where they are slow into the corners but quick on the straights and you are quicker on the corners and slower on the straights.
I'm in no doubt you'll get some nuggets, like the X5 driver mentioned but just because a car behaves differently to your own it doesn't mean they are out to get you.
Local knowledge of a road is not a substitute for paying attention and respect to other cars on the road at the time. No matter if you're FWD, RWD, 4WD or a segway.
I used to feel the same way in my old 205Mi, that i was "just as quick" as that sports car, and you are, but only due to the characteristics of the car and what would be safe on the open road.
Down a twisty section of b-road, i'd much rather have the 205 than the Mr2 but everywhere else, the Mr2 rules the roost.
There's a big difference in where a RWD car and a FWD car will hold pace. Where they are slow into the corners but quick on the straights and you are quicker on the corners and slower on the straights.
I'm in no doubt you'll get some nuggets, like the X5 driver mentioned but just because a car behaves differently to your own it doesn't mean they are out to get you.
Local knowledge of a road is not a substitute for paying attention and respect to other cars on the road at the time. No matter if you're FWD, RWD, 4WD or a segway.
I used to feel the same way in my old 205Mi, that i was "just as quick" as that sports car, and you are, but only due to the characteristics of the car and what would be safe on the open road.
Down a twisty section of b-road, i'd much rather have the 205 than the Mr2 but everywhere else, the Mr2 rules the roost.
Biker's Nemesis said:
I was up that way on Sunday on the bike. I can't say I held anyone up.
If someone was up my backside when I'm pushing on I'd rather let them past so I can see what they're up to driving wise.
Did you hear about the guy that came off on the Saturday? There was a dead badger in the middle of the road, down by the bad the really old inn; i assume he tried to dodge it.If someone was up my backside when I'm pushing on I'd rather let them past so I can see what they're up to driving wise.
It was the Saturday i was caught up behind bikes, and i'm not tarring bikes with the same brush so to speak; i like nothing more than seeing a bike on a hard run, it's just a bit of a dodgy situation trying to make a bike aware you would like past them; due to the fact they travel in packs, and the fact i don't like to get too close to them, as i don't want to make anyone feel unsafe on the road, especially on a bike.
As for the FWD/RWD debate, i see what you are saying, but i would say it's somewhat more down to power/useable power than anything else. I find my two civics both to be very useable on real roads, as 200hp and high revs is both enough to keep the car on power through any corners, and to keep me happy driving the cars; more so than the AWD jap turbo cars i've drove, as i didn't like the nature of how you had to drive them to get them round corners like i enjoyed in my FWD car. My only experience of RWD is an AE86, which aren't really quick enough to make comparison to my experience of FWD, or an S14a which was too terrifying to drive in anger for the fear of an impromptu drift show. I fully intend to divulge into RWD, but i'll always keep a FWD chav hatch as i've grown too attached to the nature of them on a good road.
My EG civic is an interesting experience through a corner. With the cusco mechanical LSD, If you even think about letting the throttle off away from full throttle the car stops digging in and turns back into a normal understeering FWD car; that's a brown trouser moment
Did you ever frequent jdmy0? I recognise your user name.
Did you ever frequent jdmy0? I recognise your user name.
ok there are too many heros on the road and also too many young drivers are being typecast as 'neds' when they are genuine petrol heads like me.the marque can designate the eejit, but we could be car phsycologists forever-the person that drives like a tw**t should be given a wide berth- bmw -peugeot-saxo..i am often goaded with a 14 year old db7.. a saab can beat this.. and the dax cobra. at 60 i could be a ned pensoiner.. but i have a desire to survive....for as long as i can 
We observed some right t**tish driving on Sunday on a drive to Oban and back:
- another group who closed ranks purposefully to make it harder for motorcyclists to pass
- the morons crawling around corners then boosting on the straights to avoid being overtaken when it was quite obvious they'd been travelling far slower overall (otherwise how would they have been caught by us?)
- some motorcyclists with a death wish
- some motorists with a death wish
- the "40MPH EVERYWHERE" brigade
- bog standard cars with something to prove (you catch them up easily, they then response with 10/10's driving just to stop you passing)
I just can't understand the whole mentality. TBH I think some folk see the blue and white badge and automatically feel resentment, somehow. Just let folk get on with enjoying their own drive, so what if they're quicker than you?
- another group who closed ranks purposefully to make it harder for motorcyclists to pass
- the morons crawling around corners then boosting on the straights to avoid being overtaken when it was quite obvious they'd been travelling far slower overall (otherwise how would they have been caught by us?)
- some motorcyclists with a death wish
- some motorists with a death wish
- the "40MPH EVERYWHERE" brigade
- bog standard cars with something to prove (you catch them up easily, they then response with 10/10's driving just to stop you passing)
I just can't understand the whole mentality. TBH I think some folk see the blue and white badge and automatically feel resentment, somehow. Just let folk get on with enjoying their own drive, so what if they're quicker than you?
As I'm surrounded by single track roads and there are endless prats who won't let one pass, I got one of these. 99% of said prats move out of the way a.s.a.p. when they see it flash.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REVOLVING-AMBER-FLASHING-BEA...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REVOLVING-AMBER-FLASHING-BEA...
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