TVR Vixen Front Trunnions
Discussion
Not a Vixen man myself, M only, but I would be suprised if a torque value for these was available. If there is (Triumph perhaps) its not likely to be valid as the trunnion fits in between TVR fabricated parts,wishbones, chassis brackets etc.
On my M I fit the two halves of the bottom wishbone too the chassis first, tighten them and make sure they rotate.
Fit the bottom shocker bush and nip it up, the upright, trunnion and assembly should then fit snuggly in the space, the trunnion bolt fitted, tightened and be able to rotate in its mount.
Should be like a rifle bolt, never is though.
ETA. Someone will come along with exact figures now, you watch!
On my M I fit the two halves of the bottom wishbone too the chassis first, tighten them and make sure they rotate.
Fit the bottom shocker bush and nip it up, the upright, trunnion and assembly should then fit snuggly in the space, the trunnion bolt fitted, tightened and be able to rotate in its mount.
Should be like a rifle bolt, never is though.
ETA. Someone will come along with exact figures now, you watch!
Edited by GAjon on Friday 15th April 07:40
hello Jon. hows the spannering coming along.
This is helpfull info. The old fella is currently bolting up the front end of the vixen at the moment and he will see this post and read your comments. He never posts on pist up heads he just stalks me on the internet so this post will guarantee he reads your coments
N.
This is helpfull info. The old fella is currently bolting up the front end of the vixen at the moment and he will see this post and read your comments. He never posts on pist up heads he just stalks me on the internet so this post will guarantee he reads your coments
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Friday 15th April 08:03
heightswitch said:
hello Jon. hows the spannering coming along.
This is helpfull info. The old fella is currently bolting up the front end of the vixen at the moment and he will see this post and read your comments. He never posts on pist up heads he just stalks me on the internet so this post will guarantee he reads your coments
N.
Work has resumed on mine now, (after stripping a ancilliary bolt thread on one cylinder head, throwing a blanket over it, and having a twelve month long sulk)and hopefully only a few weekends work to get it to body back on chassis state. (Are you reading this Adrian I've actually gone into the garage and done stuff on the car as opposed to the van).This is helpfull info. The old fella is currently bolting up the front end of the vixen at the moment and he will see this post and read your comments. He never posts on pist up heads he just stalks me on the internet so this post will guarantee he reads your coments
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Friday 15th April 08:03
I notice on the above pic the bottom wishbones are joined, is this a mod? I know Dave Smith did similar on his 5000M.
For assembly of the fronts I would also fit the top wishbone, tighten it and make sure it rotated. Then swing the upright up in the trunnion to fit into the top balljoint. Without the spring/shock fitted I tighten the whole thing then make sure it all travels up and down before finally fitting the spring/shock.
Doing this will reveal misalignment that can be fettled, rather than fitting it all loose, then tightening.
GAjon said:
Work has resumed on mine now, (after stripping a ancilliary bolt thread on one cylinder head, throwing a blanket over it, and having a twelve month long sulk)and hopefully only a few weekends work to get it to body back on chassis state. (Are you reading this Adrian I've actually gone into the garage and done stuff on the car as opposed to the van).
I notice on the above pic the bottom wishbones are joined, is this a mod? I know Dave Smith did similar on his 5000M.
For assembly of the fronts I would also fit the top wishbone, tighten it and make sure it rotated. Then swing the upright up in the trunnion to fit into the top balljoint. Without the spring/shock fitted I tighten the whole thing then make sure it all travels up and down before finally fitting the spring/shock.
Doing this will reveal misalignment that can be fettled, rather than fitting it all loose, then tightening.
Lots of mods on this one Jon I notice on the above pic the bottom wishbones are joined, is this a mod? I know Dave Smith did similar on his 5000M.
For assembly of the fronts I would also fit the top wishbone, tighten it and make sure it rotated. Then swing the upright up in the trunnion to fit into the top balljoint. Without the spring/shock fitted I tighten the whole thing then make sure it all travels up and down before finally fitting the spring/shock.
Doing this will reveal misalignment that can be fettled, rather than fitting it all loose, then tightening.
N.
some say gearoil but i've heard about other grease methods too.
before fitting the trunnions, you must be sure they don't leak on the underside. mine weren't oiltight from new so i glued the bottom plates with 2 component glue and it's still not leaking (and yes there's still oil inside
)
before fitting the trunnions, you must be sure they don't leak on the underside. mine weren't oiltight from new so i glued the bottom plates with 2 component glue and it's still not leaking (and yes there's still oil inside
)OK Jeff,
To finish this ...
I paint my trunnions with POR15 to seal them as the tin base is only as such a core plug peened over and needs sealing ..these days the un-drilled version requires a oiling (grease) nipple putting into the underside to enable the unit to be oiled. I put a small amount of copper grease in the trunnion and top up with EP90 then build all the externals with copper grease before wiping down.
Adrian@
To finish this ...
I paint my trunnions with POR15 to seal them as the tin base is only as such a core plug peened over and needs sealing ..these days the un-drilled version requires a oiling (grease) nipple putting into the underside to enable the unit to be oiled. I put a small amount of copper grease in the trunnion and top up with EP90 then build all the externals with copper grease before wiping down.
Adrian@
thegamekeeper said:
Vixen trunnions and "M" Series trunnions are VERY different
Very valid point Steve as the M Series has a larger bolt the Torque setting jumps to 65lb ft (again this is a dry torque figure and not when the joint is lubricated) and of course the trunnions have the castor angle set within the drilling.Adrian@
Adrian@ said:
Very valid point Steve as the M Series has a larger bolt the Torque setting jumps to 65lb ft (again this is a dry torque figure and not when the joint is lubricated) and of course the trunnions have the castor angle set within the drilling.
Adrian@
I meant more from the way they lubricate the vertical link and therefore the way they are lubricated themselvesAdrian@
Slow M said:
Sorry about the (mild) thread hijack. Have any of you ever tried using the (Ahem!) slightly more beefy, modern looking version to the left on a TVR? What's the result? Are they similar in terms of geometry? Same? What car are they for/from?
Thanks,
B.
Bernard. You are potentially opening up a minefield, and a conversation far to long to go into on the internet but!...There are many configurations of non std upright and stub axle which can be used. Over in the UK there are many custom bits and pieces floating around from various TVR, Triumph,Kit car and Lotus specialists which all need to be matched up to work. This gives lots of headaches when building the front ends of these cars in any way other than standard.Thanks,
B.
The easiest way is to buy a complete front end set from a specialist, The hard way is to try to match non std beefier stuff up yourself if you don't know what you are doing.
Just as an example, If you measure the outer end of your standard stub you will find it to be 5/8" the ones in the picture on dads car are 3/4" This gives rise to sourcing different wheelbearings, potentially machining outer hubs out etc etc.... but the end result gives a much beefier stub axle / outer wheelbearing assembly and reduces pad knock back, In a std car is it needed, probably not but we are mostly all fettlers on this forum aren't we!!
Herald based suspension exists in many forms and has also been modified extensively on formula ford racing cars over many years. as people have said before this is why you go to a specialist who knows which bits work with which. People who buy from triumph suppliers are often advised by persons who have no idea about TVR and as such parts which don't fit are often supplied, this can result in wrong uprights being fitted with incorrect taper stub axles and many other potentially dangerous things which aren't always apparent to the eye!!
A minefield!
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Monday 2nd May 08:15
Neil,
I realize the Alford & Alder type front upright was used even in Grand Prix cars well into the 1960s. I also know there are a variety of ways of modifying these. This thread shows some. I like the one in the Oct 13 2009, 17:23 post (#82). My own have been modded with custom 1018 stubs to late 80s RX7 dimensions and the caliper brackets designed to provide additional stub axle support.
I appreciate your suggestion, but would like even better, if everybody else who read this would still consider this question, and if they have some knowledge on the topic, attempt to answer it. To me, learning about this is part of the fun, and you know, since we haven't reached the end of the interwebs yet, why not explore it?
Best,
B.
Edited to say: Yes, I know, it's later Herald.
I realize the Alford & Alder type front upright was used even in Grand Prix cars well into the 1960s. I also know there are a variety of ways of modifying these. This thread shows some. I like the one in the Oct 13 2009, 17:23 post (#82). My own have been modded with custom 1018 stubs to late 80s RX7 dimensions and the caliper brackets designed to provide additional stub axle support.
I appreciate your suggestion, but would like even better, if everybody else who read this would still consider this question, and if they have some knowledge on the topic, attempt to answer it. To me, learning about this is part of the fun, and you know, since we haven't reached the end of the interwebs yet, why not explore it?
Best,
B.
Edited to say: Yes, I know, it's later Herald.
Edited by Slow M on Tuesday 3rd May 06:38
Sometimes, it's mind blowing how well this ask and ye shall receive thing works. I was thinking that I needed a basis point for dimensional comparison, when...
M 90º Lower trunnion
bracket, 0º caster
N 87º Lower trunnion
bracket, 3º caster
0 0.06in
P 1.75in
Q 0.56in
R 1.19in
S O.81in
T 3.33in
U 2.345in
AG 2.59in
AH 1.53in
AI 6.50in
0deg castor angle ->C.T. 6344->3deg pos castor angle (1961 TR4 Wire wheel)
0deg castor angle ->C.T. 6390->3deg pos castor angle (1961 TR4 disc wheel)
...someone dropped a gorgeous little book on my desk this morning. Really? That happens?
M 90º Lower trunnion
bracket, 0º caster
N 87º Lower trunnion
bracket, 3º caster
0 0.06in
P 1.75in
Q 0.56in
R 1.19in
S O.81in
T 3.33in
U 2.345in
AG 2.59in
AH 1.53in
AI 6.50in
0deg castor angle ->C.T. 6344->3deg pos castor angle (1961 TR4 Wire wheel)
0deg castor angle ->C.T. 6390->3deg pos castor angle (1961 TR4 disc wheel)
...someone dropped a gorgeous little book on my desk this morning. Really? That happens?
Hello,
Now I am bringing the front suspension a little further I have bought new trunnions and bolts.
The discussion on the lubrication is taken place in the Triumph club too.
But I found out that both lower A-arms have oval not round holes for connecting the trunnion (see pic).
Is this normal?
And if so why?
Hans
Now I am bringing the front suspension a little further I have bought new trunnions and bolts.
The discussion on the lubrication is taken place in the Triumph club too.
But I found out that both lower A-arms have oval not round holes for connecting the trunnion (see pic).
Is this normal?
And if so why?
Hans
Hansoplast said:
Hello,
Now I am bringing the front suspension a little further I have bought new trunnions and bolts.
The discussion on the lubrication is taken place in the Triumph club too.
But I found out that both lower A-arms have oval not round holes for connecting the trunnion (see pic).
Is this normal?
And if so why?
Hans
General age related wear resultant from old age and possibly trunnions which have not been periodically stripped and lubricated to allow all the parts to move. the full weight of the car acts through this lower nut and bolt along with the bulk of the suspension loads. The wishbones also look quite old and well pitted.. as such probably quite thin. These in my opinion may be subject to fatigue around welded (or Brazed depending on age) joints. Now I am bringing the front suspension a little further I have bought new trunnions and bolts.
The discussion on the lubrication is taken place in the Triumph club too.
But I found out that both lower A-arms have oval not round holes for connecting the trunnion (see pic).
Is this normal?
And if so why?
Hans
You have 2 options.
1. weld a washer on both sides of the wishbone to allow hole to return to size and round.
2. Replace your wishbones.
I personally mix hypoid with red synthetic grease and strip and lubricate the trunions periodically. This is because the racer has solid uprights with no drilling up the centre for a grease nipple.
N.
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Monday 10th November 21:48
Edited by Dollyman1850 on Monday 10th November 21:50
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