E90/E91...talk to me...
Discussion
I'm thinking of coming back to BMW from Audi, and ideally want a 2.0l diesel estate, reasonably good spec, SE or M sport possibly an auto.
I had an E90 from new on an 08 plate, and whilst it perhaps did not have the "x factor" of my current A4 S-Line (which replaced it when my employer went bust and the company car went back), it was rock solid and a great drive with a much better engine. However, the Audis do have a few achilles heels, and I'm wondering how the E90/E91 cars are faring a few years down the line.
So...
-Are there any specific weak points/recalls/known issues on these cars?
-What's the auto like compared to the manual? Much difference on MPG?
-In real world driving, what's the MPG difference between the 2.0 and the 3.0? (Clearly I work in Germany a lot and tend to cruise at about 80-85 leptons and just drive swiftly but sensibly everywhere else)
-Has anyone owned an A4 avant and a 3 series estate and is there much difference in load space?
Appreciate any pearls of wisdom!
Thanks
I had an E90 from new on an 08 plate, and whilst it perhaps did not have the "x factor" of my current A4 S-Line (which replaced it when my employer went bust and the company car went back), it was rock solid and a great drive with a much better engine. However, the Audis do have a few achilles heels, and I'm wondering how the E90/E91 cars are faring a few years down the line.
So...
-Are there any specific weak points/recalls/known issues on these cars?
-What's the auto like compared to the manual? Much difference on MPG?
-In real world driving, what's the MPG difference between the 2.0 and the 3.0? (Clearly I work in Germany a lot and tend to cruise at about 80-85 leptons and just drive swiftly but sensibly everywhere else)
-Has anyone owned an A4 avant and a 3 series estate and is there much difference in load space?
Appreciate any pearls of wisdom!
Thanks
I had a 335i and then my wife had the 177bhp 320d auto m-sport touring, we then swapped that for an E320, an older one, but a nice A6 3.2 Avant came up at a ridiculous price so I grabbed it, but the E91s were very fresh in my mind.
However when we collected the A6 it threw a fault light up so they lent me a new 2.0tdi s-line avant for a week whlle they sorted the A6, I wrote a review which is below....
I would have another E91 tomorrow, it is an absolutely fantastic car and a real joy to drive, and the 320d 177bhp is an absolute peach, mine returned 39mpg round town and averaged around 47mpg while doing mid 50s on a run and a couple of bank holiday drives returned figures in the 60's.
This was an auto, I had a manual for 2 days on loan and it was about the same.
The handling and the overall feel is on a complete other level compared with the A4, the A4 is nice enough but the BMW makes you want to go out for a drive just for the sake of it, even late at night in the middle of winter, I have never done that in any of my Audis, S4 included, they do a job and look nice, never any more than that.
However when we collected the A6 it threw a fault light up so they lent me a new 2.0tdi s-line avant for a week whlle they sorted the A6, I wrote a review which is below....
gizze's review on Tyresmoke said:
I have been lent a new A4 S-Line avant for a week, we swapped the Merc E320 family Estate for a 3.2 Quattro Avant and it is not ready to collect yet so they have lent me this car for 7 days till I can get back to them.
The exterior.
The car is in black with with black leather, has DVD nav, MMI high and the Audi Music Interface and on the 5 spoke 18” S-Line wheels and it looks fantastic!
The only thing I don’t like about the looks is the 1990’s chrome all over the car, it is meant to be sporty so why put all that chrome around the windows etc.?
But I’m sure this is a personal thing and plenty of others love it? If it were me I would have ticked the Black grille option, especially on a black car.
So all in all a great looking car that certainly looks far better in the flesh than in pictures, maybe a little soft looking still but then I guess that is one of the reasons you buy the Audi so you really can’t fault them for that and there always seems to be plenty of aftermarket options if you want to make it look a little more sporty/aggressive.
8/10
I would probably push this to a 9/10 if it had the blackout package added.
The interior.
This is the reason a lot of people buy Audis, they do have cracking interiors.
The layout is superb, everything is aimed at the driver, the dash contours round and makes the driver feel like he is in control, it is very similar to BMW and how they always designed their cockpits, until recently of course, and Audi have taken a march on BMW in this respect, it is now probably the most driver focused cabin of any of the German Marques, well done Audi!
The seats are also brilliant, this has always been a bugbear of mine with Audi, there has never been anything particularly wrong with the seats but I like the front (under the thigh) to lift up high and they have always been too flat. The Recaros in the s4 were the same and made longer journeys a bit of a chore.
It feels very similar to the BMW Sport seats in the current 1 and 3 series, which are the best seats I have had in any car, making the Mercedes S class, E class, BMW 5 and 7 series and previous Audis all seem a rather poor affair.
There is plenty of adjustment, the lumbar is good and the seat itself is extremely comfy.
The rear leg room is pathetic, it really is, but I will never sit in it so I really don’t give a crap to be honest, the rear seats at least look nice with the stitching.
The boot space is a real let down, we swapped our 3 series touring for the Merc as we needed more room, once the baby buggy was in the boot the dog didn’t really have enough room, he could get in and lay down, but you couldn’t expect him to be in there more than 30 minutes or so.
The boot on this is such a poor shape that once the buggy is in there he can’t actually get in, there is no more room.
So great if you have a dog, and ever if you have a couple of older kids and a dog, but not a baby with all the junk they seem to need and a dog.
I have a 14 year old daughter, a 5 month old baby and a Weimaraner who is a fair size. We can’t all get in the car which seems crazy as this is exactly the sort of customer I would have though the Avant is aimed at?
Dog in the boot, baby seat in the back, me in the front, wife in the passenger seat and.....buggy taking up the rest of the back seat so daughter is walking. To be honest, at 14 this can be seen as a positive!
One last thing I am going to mention is the fact that Audi have a switch to deactivate the front seat airbag, not sure of this is standard but it is very welcome, Mercedes make you buy their car seat that deactivates a senor and BMW make it an option, that is £100’s to retrofit!
The plastics are nowhere near the quality of the B7, and I would say BMW are now a notch above in this area, however, they are not flimsy enough to notice unless touching them, so it really is anon issue, but there is not the solid feel you used to get from Audi which is a shame.
Also the steering wheel is really rather crap, it is so thin and feels too big. I would change this for something chunkier and a little smaller.
Now there is one niggle, and it is quite a major one, but as the interior is such a nice place to be then I don’t want to mention it here as it is more to do with the manual box, so I will talk about it in the next bit, so....
Now as long as you don’t have a dog and a baby I will give it....
7/10
If the plastics were better quality it would get another point, and if the boot were a better, more useable space it would get one more, so please take 7 as a very good score.
Driving.
First thing I want to mention is how much nicer it feels to drive compared with my previous A4’s, it feels more comfy on a cruise with regards to chassis and suspension set up. The car also feels a lot better balanced then before, but when you press on you can feel they are not there yet, or maybe this is just getting used to FWD drive again??
I am going to sum this up quickly as no one likes to read about negatives, but it is a major problem and would mean there is no way I could own one of these in manual guise no matter what the engine was in it.
Pedal position.
The pedals are offset, not a problem, they are on many cars, you simply twist to the right very slightly. However.....
In the A4 the clutch is literally half an inch from the foot rest, and the biting point is lower than the foot rest , which means I can’t get the clutch to where it needs to be without twisting my left leg in the opposite direction to the way I have had to twist the rest of my body to work with the offset pedals.
I am sure this is just lazy design when converting the car to RHD, but it is a serious problem and the sales guy said he gets no end of customers mentioning it.
Such a shame, those gorgeous seats, lovely interior and then this!
That’s all I am going to say on the matter, I hate it and it is a really, really bad/lazy design and would mean I for one would never own a manual one of these, luckily I prefer auto.
The engine itself is pretty damned poor, it sounds awful compared with our 320d (177bhp common rail) and is absolutely gutless. Sorry to compare it to the BMW all the time but that is what I know and have owned so that is my comparison.
Even our company 118d feels like a rocket in comparison.
The engine needs to be kept between 2800rpm and you have to change again at just under 4000rpm to make any progress, but this also means you are constantly swapping cogs making life, even on the motorway very hard work and very tiring. Round town just makes it worse.
The other problem with this is the economy, to keep any sort of power going you need to be in the above rev range, now when I collected the car it was reading 34mpg, it is now down to 28mpg, which for a 2.0 manual diesel is verging on the absurd, I get 26mpg from my E320 Mercedes auto estate, and with petrol being 15% cheaper makes it the cheaper car to run.
FWD.
How come some brands have it right and Audi, a premium maker, still get it so, so wrong. Pulling away from junctions quickly is a nightmare, you have to feather the throttle hoping the front end doesn’t lift up and the wheels scrabble about, you can’t just plant your foot like you can with Quattro or RWD.
It also makes the whole feedback experience a numb experience.
You have to really think about when you apply the throttle, do it on a corner and the understeer is verging on ridiculous.
Not going to bang on about it, but this combo of engine and drive train is not for those that enjoy driving.
Pay the extra and get the Quattro, and with the DSG.
The BMW 3 series well and truly has the A4 licked for driving pleasure when you take two basic cars, for example a 31d sport and this 2.0tdi S-line.
Throw in Quattro and DSG then you can start comparing them, yeah the A4 still under steers like a good ‘un and they are appealing to two different customers, but at least they both have advantages, the A4 in basic guise has none other than the fact you prefer the looks.
So for overall enjoyment of the drive on this particular model....
4/10
I was really excited about having this for a week, but I have been hassling them to get my car ready for today as I have stopped driving it, it is chore.
Gadgets.
These are great, the MMI, the nav and the Audi Music Interface is really, really good, a few too many buttons and therefore not as easy to use while driving as the BMW iDrive, but there is no learning curve which is where the iDrive falls down.
The only slight quibble is the phone system, with the BMW one you start at the address book with all the scrolling allowing you to select which letter you want, where as with this you have to go in to that via 3 menu selections.
Also the phone book for voice seems to be built into the car and can’t see the sim contacts??
But over all a great system and even the basic sound system (which I think is DSP with MMI high?) sounds warm and full.
9/10
Overall.
Well overall I do really, really like the car, it looks great, is comfortable, has a great infotainment system and has that look back factor...as in you look back at it when you get out and walk away.
The annoyances can be got round by choosing the right engine and gearbox, and I am hoping that by the time I no longer need the massive boot that the A6 provides there will be a few S4 DSG avants kicking around at a year old and sub £30k, with the electronic diff it is meant to overcome the understeer issue just about completely.
So I think I will buy one at some because overall it really is nice place to be.
The exterior.
The car is in black with with black leather, has DVD nav, MMI high and the Audi Music Interface and on the 5 spoke 18” S-Line wheels and it looks fantastic!
The only thing I don’t like about the looks is the 1990’s chrome all over the car, it is meant to be sporty so why put all that chrome around the windows etc.?
But I’m sure this is a personal thing and plenty of others love it? If it were me I would have ticked the Black grille option, especially on a black car.
So all in all a great looking car that certainly looks far better in the flesh than in pictures, maybe a little soft looking still but then I guess that is one of the reasons you buy the Audi so you really can’t fault them for that and there always seems to be plenty of aftermarket options if you want to make it look a little more sporty/aggressive.
8/10
I would probably push this to a 9/10 if it had the blackout package added.
The interior.
This is the reason a lot of people buy Audis, they do have cracking interiors.
The layout is superb, everything is aimed at the driver, the dash contours round and makes the driver feel like he is in control, it is very similar to BMW and how they always designed their cockpits, until recently of course, and Audi have taken a march on BMW in this respect, it is now probably the most driver focused cabin of any of the German Marques, well done Audi!
The seats are also brilliant, this has always been a bugbear of mine with Audi, there has never been anything particularly wrong with the seats but I like the front (under the thigh) to lift up high and they have always been too flat. The Recaros in the s4 were the same and made longer journeys a bit of a chore.
It feels very similar to the BMW Sport seats in the current 1 and 3 series, which are the best seats I have had in any car, making the Mercedes S class, E class, BMW 5 and 7 series and previous Audis all seem a rather poor affair.
There is plenty of adjustment, the lumbar is good and the seat itself is extremely comfy.
The rear leg room is pathetic, it really is, but I will never sit in it so I really don’t give a crap to be honest, the rear seats at least look nice with the stitching.
The boot space is a real let down, we swapped our 3 series touring for the Merc as we needed more room, once the baby buggy was in the boot the dog didn’t really have enough room, he could get in and lay down, but you couldn’t expect him to be in there more than 30 minutes or so.
The boot on this is such a poor shape that once the buggy is in there he can’t actually get in, there is no more room.
So great if you have a dog, and ever if you have a couple of older kids and a dog, but not a baby with all the junk they seem to need and a dog.
I have a 14 year old daughter, a 5 month old baby and a Weimaraner who is a fair size. We can’t all get in the car which seems crazy as this is exactly the sort of customer I would have though the Avant is aimed at?
Dog in the boot, baby seat in the back, me in the front, wife in the passenger seat and.....buggy taking up the rest of the back seat so daughter is walking. To be honest, at 14 this can be seen as a positive!
One last thing I am going to mention is the fact that Audi have a switch to deactivate the front seat airbag, not sure of this is standard but it is very welcome, Mercedes make you buy their car seat that deactivates a senor and BMW make it an option, that is £100’s to retrofit!
The plastics are nowhere near the quality of the B7, and I would say BMW are now a notch above in this area, however, they are not flimsy enough to notice unless touching them, so it really is anon issue, but there is not the solid feel you used to get from Audi which is a shame.
Also the steering wheel is really rather crap, it is so thin and feels too big. I would change this for something chunkier and a little smaller.
Now there is one niggle, and it is quite a major one, but as the interior is such a nice place to be then I don’t want to mention it here as it is more to do with the manual box, so I will talk about it in the next bit, so....
Now as long as you don’t have a dog and a baby I will give it....
7/10
If the plastics were better quality it would get another point, and if the boot were a better, more useable space it would get one more, so please take 7 as a very good score.
Driving.
First thing I want to mention is how much nicer it feels to drive compared with my previous A4’s, it feels more comfy on a cruise with regards to chassis and suspension set up. The car also feels a lot better balanced then before, but when you press on you can feel they are not there yet, or maybe this is just getting used to FWD drive again??
I am going to sum this up quickly as no one likes to read about negatives, but it is a major problem and would mean there is no way I could own one of these in manual guise no matter what the engine was in it.
Pedal position.
The pedals are offset, not a problem, they are on many cars, you simply twist to the right very slightly. However.....
In the A4 the clutch is literally half an inch from the foot rest, and the biting point is lower than the foot rest , which means I can’t get the clutch to where it needs to be without twisting my left leg in the opposite direction to the way I have had to twist the rest of my body to work with the offset pedals.
I am sure this is just lazy design when converting the car to RHD, but it is a serious problem and the sales guy said he gets no end of customers mentioning it.
Such a shame, those gorgeous seats, lovely interior and then this!
That’s all I am going to say on the matter, I hate it and it is a really, really bad/lazy design and would mean I for one would never own a manual one of these, luckily I prefer auto.
The engine itself is pretty damned poor, it sounds awful compared with our 320d (177bhp common rail) and is absolutely gutless. Sorry to compare it to the BMW all the time but that is what I know and have owned so that is my comparison.
Even our company 118d feels like a rocket in comparison.
The engine needs to be kept between 2800rpm and you have to change again at just under 4000rpm to make any progress, but this also means you are constantly swapping cogs making life, even on the motorway very hard work and very tiring. Round town just makes it worse.
The other problem with this is the economy, to keep any sort of power going you need to be in the above rev range, now when I collected the car it was reading 34mpg, it is now down to 28mpg, which for a 2.0 manual diesel is verging on the absurd, I get 26mpg from my E320 Mercedes auto estate, and with petrol being 15% cheaper makes it the cheaper car to run.
FWD.
How come some brands have it right and Audi, a premium maker, still get it so, so wrong. Pulling away from junctions quickly is a nightmare, you have to feather the throttle hoping the front end doesn’t lift up and the wheels scrabble about, you can’t just plant your foot like you can with Quattro or RWD.
It also makes the whole feedback experience a numb experience.
You have to really think about when you apply the throttle, do it on a corner and the understeer is verging on ridiculous.
Not going to bang on about it, but this combo of engine and drive train is not for those that enjoy driving.
Pay the extra and get the Quattro, and with the DSG.
The BMW 3 series well and truly has the A4 licked for driving pleasure when you take two basic cars, for example a 31d sport and this 2.0tdi S-line.
Throw in Quattro and DSG then you can start comparing them, yeah the A4 still under steers like a good ‘un and they are appealing to two different customers, but at least they both have advantages, the A4 in basic guise has none other than the fact you prefer the looks.
So for overall enjoyment of the drive on this particular model....
4/10
I was really excited about having this for a week, but I have been hassling them to get my car ready for today as I have stopped driving it, it is chore.
Gadgets.
These are great, the MMI, the nav and the Audi Music Interface is really, really good, a few too many buttons and therefore not as easy to use while driving as the BMW iDrive, but there is no learning curve which is where the iDrive falls down.
The only slight quibble is the phone system, with the BMW one you start at the address book with all the scrolling allowing you to select which letter you want, where as with this you have to go in to that via 3 menu selections.
Also the phone book for voice seems to be built into the car and can’t see the sim contacts??
But over all a great system and even the basic sound system (which I think is DSP with MMI high?) sounds warm and full.
9/10
Overall.
Well overall I do really, really like the car, it looks great, is comfortable, has a great infotainment system and has that look back factor...as in you look back at it when you get out and walk away.
The annoyances can be got round by choosing the right engine and gearbox, and I am hoping that by the time I no longer need the massive boot that the A6 provides there will be a few S4 DSG avants kicking around at a year old and sub £30k, with the electronic diff it is meant to overcome the understeer issue just about completely.
So I think I will buy one at some because overall it really is nice place to be.
I would have another E91 tomorrow, it is an absolutely fantastic car and a real joy to drive, and the 320d 177bhp is an absolute peach, mine returned 39mpg round town and averaged around 47mpg while doing mid 50s on a run and a couple of bank holiday drives returned figures in the 60's.
This was an auto, I had a manual for 2 days on loan and it was about the same.
The handling and the overall feel is on a complete other level compared with the A4, the A4 is nice enough but the BMW makes you want to go out for a drive just for the sake of it, even late at night in the middle of winter, I have never done that in any of my Audis, S4 included, they do a job and look nice, never any more than that.
Should just add that since I wrote that I had a 3.0tdi Quattro avant for 4 days, and actually didn't like that either.
For me Audis work when they are bigger and wafty, they are not sporty in the slightest so no point trying to get that from them.
Also had a dsg S4 for 24 hours and really did like that, although just felt like a faster A4 more than anything else, but with the sports diff it handled better and the ride was better than the S-Line tdi as well.
But still not a patch on the 335i imho.
For me Audis work when they are bigger and wafty, they are not sporty in the slightest so no point trying to get that from them.
Also had a dsg S4 for 24 hours and really did like that, although just felt like a faster A4 more than anything else, but with the sports diff it handled better and the ride was better than the S-Line tdi as well.
But still not a patch on the 335i imho.
I'm really enjoying my new E91, (just passed the 1000kms). But perhaps the only downside IMO is the small size of the boot. I can't compare it to an Audi but I certainly can't fit in as much luggage as in my 2004 Forester. The boot seems rather awkwardly shaped for suitcases (ours are those classic Samsonite Oysters). It is too short by a few cms to have them standing up longitudinally and it can only fit two transversely or flat with wasted space around. I need to do some more work on finding a solution for this...
Mildly interesting BMW fact #642: Mine's a LHD x-Drive M-Sport all wheel drive version (not available in RHD) and the key thing about the x-Drive M-Sport models is that they do not have the stiffened, lowered suspension that all other M-Sport models get. Thus the ride is surprisingly compliant on rough roads whilst still having all the other usual sporty bits.
Mildly interesting BMW fact #642: Mine's a LHD x-Drive M-Sport all wheel drive version (not available in RHD) and the key thing about the x-Drive M-Sport models is that they do not have the stiffened, lowered suspension that all other M-Sport models get. Thus the ride is surprisingly compliant on rough roads whilst still having all the other usual sporty bits.
The first thing I notice when I jump back in to my E91 325i from an Audi is the steering it is just so sharp and direct, the BMW also enjoys being pressed on a bit, everything tightens up and I love the way you can feel it just wanting to step out when you exit a roundabout at speed, for a family car I can't imagine driving anything else, I have driven tourings since 1990 E30, E36, E46 and now E91, I had a Merc C240 sport estate to try something different but although very comfortable it didn't hit the spot like a 3 series.
Critics say that they are too common, the reason there are so many on the road is because they are such a bloody good car!
I drove a new A4 recently and really wanted to like it because it looked lovely and the interior was beautiful, but it just left me completely cold. So I think another e91 next, just need to run this one into the ground first, it's only done 80,000 so it will last at least 3 more years.
Critics say that they are too common, the reason there are so many on the road is because they are such a bloody good car!
I drove a new A4 recently and really wanted to like it because it looked lovely and the interior was beautiful, but it just left me completely cold. So I think another e91 next, just need to run this one into the ground first, it's only done 80,000 so it will last at least 3 more years.
Have had our E91 335d SE (with M sport suspension) for almost two years now and it' a brilliant allrounder.
No it's not massive inside - borderline big hatch rather than all out estate but the space is useful with the folding seats - but it's very nicely fitted out, comfortable yet lots of fun when you push it hard.
Ours has a panaramic sunroof which is a true joy on any E91 - masses of light and it's pretty well designed too. Also came with factory fitted rear rolling blinds - ideal if you have little ones and saves buying those horrible stick on ones.
If you stick a Hatchbag (www.hatchbag.co.uk) in the back then the car is fully dog proofed and you can sling anything in it without worrying.
We ditched the runflats as soon as possible- they are horrible and the only real weakness in this car.
They are APPALLING in snow without Winter tyres (other car is a Defender so we use that) or even wet grass/mud but I think being a 335d might not help - the torque just kills the grip on anything but tarmac.
I also tested an A4 3.0TDI Avant (B7) - completely and utterly inferior in every way. Pants steering, snatchy brakes, cack ride quality, smaller boot, slower, worse on fuel, heavier. No no and no again.
No it's not massive inside - borderline big hatch rather than all out estate but the space is useful with the folding seats - but it's very nicely fitted out, comfortable yet lots of fun when you push it hard.
Ours has a panaramic sunroof which is a true joy on any E91 - masses of light and it's pretty well designed too. Also came with factory fitted rear rolling blinds - ideal if you have little ones and saves buying those horrible stick on ones.
If you stick a Hatchbag (www.hatchbag.co.uk) in the back then the car is fully dog proofed and you can sling anything in it without worrying.
We ditched the runflats as soon as possible- they are horrible and the only real weakness in this car.
They are APPALLING in snow without Winter tyres (other car is a Defender so we use that) or even wet grass/mud but I think being a 335d might not help - the torque just kills the grip on anything but tarmac.
I also tested an A4 3.0TDI Avant (B7) - completely and utterly inferior in every way. Pants steering, snatchy brakes, cack ride quality, smaller boot, slower, worse on fuel, heavier. No no and no again.
Great, thanks for the advice all. Picking this up tomorrow! 
The auto box seems superb, it's a great match for the 177bhp diesel. Fully loaded with motorsport wheels, adaptive xenons, auto wipers/lights, sports leather, heated seats, iDrive/satnav, headlamp washers, Edition M Sport pack and even a detachble/invisible towbar.
Woohoo!
The auto box seems superb, it's a great match for the 177bhp diesel. Fully loaded with motorsport wheels, adaptive xenons, auto wipers/lights, sports leather, heated seats, iDrive/satnav, headlamp washers, Edition M Sport pack and even a detachble/invisible towbar.
Woohoo!
I had a real "heart v head" moment on this one...well actually 2 hours of head scratching, tyre kicking and test driving!
Head said go for an '09 facelift model that had less mileage on it, but it was missing the leather, xenons, iDrive, towbar, motorsport alloys and some other bits. It was a bit more money (not much) but I did not fancy keeping the black paint clean, and although it was 18m newer, it had a couple of dings and kerbed alloys (wheels which BMW would have put right in fairness). Although financially it might have made slightly more sense long term this silver one was just "dream spec" and I have a feeling every time I would have driven the black one I'd have wished it had all those toys. Just fell in love with the silver one and it just seemed like a really well cared for, well specced car.
Bring it on!
Head said go for an '09 facelift model that had less mileage on it, but it was missing the leather, xenons, iDrive, towbar, motorsport alloys and some other bits. It was a bit more money (not much) but I did not fancy keeping the black paint clean, and although it was 18m newer, it had a couple of dings and kerbed alloys (wheels which BMW would have put right in fairness). Although financially it might have made slightly more sense long term this silver one was just "dream spec" and I have a feeling every time I would have driven the black one I'd have wished it had all those toys. Just fell in love with the silver one and it just seemed like a really well cared for, well specced car.
Bring it on!
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