450SE - Thoughts and opinions please

[TvR Driver]

Hi Guys

Right the growler ( 1989 450se www.beastandgrowler.co.uk ) has been gathering a lot of dust since i left her with the chaps at track v road in november.

I left her there with a knackered gearbox which needs a rebuild and asked them to look at the state of the engine whilst i was away in december enjoying sunny australia and they have provided me with a small list of issues that wasnt unsurprising as the power was way down and she drove like a pile of poo!!

The guys havent minded the length of time and pennies now permit me to move forward which is where the thoughts and opinions from you mad feckers will be appreciated .......

Choice one is : remove engine and rebore and replace with tvr power parts so good bits and end up with 450 engine and 885 cam and then still end up with flapper yet good engine etc - Cost approx £2400 on parts plus refitting and rebuilding engine etc

Choice two is : remove engine and replace with new unit .......
Thats where it starts to get tough ........

I have looked at one on pistonheads which dosent seem quite suitable
I have toyed with old griff / chimera engine but not sure i would be moving too far forward.....

Now i am sorely tempted with a 5 litre v8 developments engine and they did some great work when they rebuilt my griff 5.0 engine which them pulled like a train ... The engine with top hats, mega squirt, wide band ignition, hotwire and set up properly - dyno'd etc and new clutch could be slipped in nicely but the bank balance would take a major hit LOL

I think being a silly sod the v8 developments engine is pulling me towards it but what do you all think as i know the car will never recoup the cost but i dont intend to sell her so may as well get a sorted drivable car that i will enjoy driving .

Thoughts and ideas appreciated and i will be deciding this weekend as need her back in time for le mans and a trip around scandinavia !!!

PS - Yes i still need a gearbox and then a roof LOL - The respray and interior can wait till next year !

Thanks all

Edited by TvR Driver on Tuesday 19th April 22:03

[jmorgan]

I spent a pile of loot on the engine but did it for the car not to resale. Glad I did when I found out I had bought a lemon. Not much help but I went on the advice of the builder so kept the block and crank and pistons etc and rebuilt it. Needed new heads and cam and so on. That was ten years ago and it still goes like a train and leery.

[TvR Driver]

Thanks J

Nice to hear yours is still like a rocket

Engine rebuild would leave me with a good car but for a few extra £'s maybe the result would really make me grin and hopefully give me a few good few years withought any engine issues ....

[GV]

I think I would go for a V8 developments rebuild on you existing unit. That way you can appreciate the difference after as well as minimising the cost.

[jmorgan]

Thinking about it mine was a transplant by a previous owner but it was a newer range rover block (supposed to be a new rebuild). But when I had it done properly it was blue printed, flywheel lightened to match it, decked, cross bolted and so on. 4.2 when it was measured in the workshop and even had the valve guides wasted in the head work and so on. Can the older V8's be cross bolted?

Reason why I had the old rebuilt rather than new unit. I was moving house when I had the engine diagnosed as terminal. So no time to source and ship etc. That would need someone to do, I did not have the time or space or lifts etc. The chap that re built for me was around the corner at the time so able to chat easily and see the work shop (spotless and meticulous come to mind) so I ended up down that route as it was the best option for me. Once the heads were shown to be iffy he stripped the block to test that and it was sound as was the crank and pistons and worked up from that. Bearings were going so all replaced. The difference after running in was amazing.

So, tricky. My options fitted a rebuild. I may have gone down the new unit route in different circumstances. Find out how far you can go with what you have maybe?

[TvR Driver]

Hi Andrew (GV)

If i recall last time i was looking at a gearbox rebuild you were just sending yours away to cts ??? how did it go etc as after replacing the engine i need the box rebuilding as well ?

V8 developments seem to know there stuff so am thinking of heading heading down that route with a new engine as the rebuild looks like it will be about £2000 cheaper but i then still have an old block with flapper rather than all new hotwire and megasquirt etc ....

Now i just have to see what other ideas come in and then get the wife to think its all going to cost £75 and then we will be sorted lol

Thanks so far guys - keep the ideas rolling in

Ty & The Growler

Edited by TvR Driver on Wednesday 20th April 09:26

[rev-erend]

Well the gear box is an easy one .. that only costs around £300 to rebuild at CTS transmissions .. but it's 5 hrs in and again to refit.. also clutch worth doing at same time, strengthen clutch pivot arm while there.

Engine - well .. too many choices.

Realistically the minimum cost will be £3000 but if you are not after power hikes then just replacing what is worn could cost around £1500 .. plus fitting.

[GV]

[quote=TvR Driver]Hi Andrew (GV)

If i recall last time i was looking at a gearbox rebuild you were just sending yours away to cts ??? how did it go etc as after replacing the engine i need the box rebuilding as well ?

Yes I got the gearbox rebuilt by CTS and it's back in along with the engine et al. I decided though to drain their recomended use of ATP fluid and went for Redline MTL instead which has given me peace of mind - there's too many negatives about using ATP to take the risk on a rebuilt gearbox as I want to keep my car long term. In the future though I would like to upgrade my engine sticking to my carb set up so I may end up getting a bigger RV8 and having it rebuilt. Not sure how much more can be extracted out of a 3.5 where the extra cost may be better spent on a bigger unit which you already have.

I would also do the removal and transplant again of both engine and box to save on cost too...

Edited by GV on Wednesday 20th April 11:06

[TvR Driver]

I am pretty much decided on changing the lump and going with the 5 litre v8 developments engine ..........

Will get the box rebuilt and strengthened and put back at same time

The engine will have a new clutch and all bits and pieces but will look at getting the pivot arm strenghtened as you suggest rev

Thanks for your thoughts and hopefully ill be able to get down to meet you all at the bbwf

Ty

[rev-erend]

The 5 litre option I believe means also changing ancilaries like water pump and alternator. Worth checking if this is so and will add to the cost.

Here is Steve Heath's modded arm:


and I just did the same and painted mine

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

A well sorted 4.5 can match a std 5.0 plus a 4.5 can rev more freely.
As for MS or hotwire injection, its not that expensive to get a HW top and injectors etc. you can then keep the same front, unless you want to go to serp. front end.

I'm hoping to get 300 BHP + from the 4.5 I'm building for the racer.

[Campbell]

What ever you do, rebuild or replace i would put money aside for changing the flapper over for a proper fueling system, some thing like emerald or DTA, ive also heard MS2 is quite good too.
If you had the money you could go wasted spark or sequential spark and this on a 4.5 would easly acheave the power and driveability you are looking for.
Im looking to go wasted stark on a DTA and would be hoping to get near 300

Just need to win the lottery....

[cirks]

John Eales' 4.8 with carbs....... is there any other choice?
p.s mine cost an awful lot more than £3k and with all the anciliary changes and other odds and sods, any swap to a serp engine is going to cost you a lot more than rebuilding or refitting a pre-serp.
However, I'm very glad I did it. 7 years later and <cough> my wife doesn't know how much it all cost in the end.

[rev-erend]

Keep the flapper if you have one .. they sound great

[grahamw48]

Yes....sod the sophistication. Can't beat those pops and bangs.

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

grahamw48 said:

Yes....sod the sophistication. Can't beat those pops and bangs.

Emerald and most other 3rd party can be programmed to give pops and bangs, being programmable you can tell it to replicate any condition.
Also most have multiple maps, so you can have a quiet-ish one for early mornings / MOT etc
And then a full on hooligan mode

[dixiebabes]

Full on hooligan mode mmmmmnnnn i like the sound of ths=at Leigh!!!!!



Dix

[TvR Driver]

Thanks Guys

Away seeing The car and sorting out the plans ( and trying to avoid admitting the cost to er indoors lol )

Hooligan mode sounds perfect !!!!!

Yes to emerald and mega squirt and mapable ignition so now getting excited

Also it has been recommended to put on new manifolds at the same time as the new engine so just started surfing and looking athe previos posts and pics

Brain now frazzled

Ty

[mikeb]

Too much power through an LT77 = lots of gearbox rebuilds!

Keep the flapper (sounds better and easier to fix), get the engine and gearbox rebuilt, change the clutch and the headers and get in the thing and enjoy it. Too much sophistication = time in the garage fiddling with it all = money. You start ramping up the power too much and then you end up running other things up to the envelope like diffs, brakes, suspension etc which means even more loot to be spent.... the 'TVR causality loop' as I like to call it. Get it fixed and go for a blast with the roof off, summers here.

MikeyB