Thinking outside the box !!
Discussion
ok so this weekened we had the first warm weather in the uk and on my trip to jetstream on saturday i noticed the drop off in power especialy on low boost so i got to thinking ..............what about this ??
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tu...
might be good to drop intake temps !!! anybody ever used anything like it ?? Tux
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tu...
might be good to drop intake temps !!! anybody ever used anything like it ?? Tux
yes its good and is perfect for opur cars due to having the IC box separated from the engine bay you just need to make sure the air filters are moved as CO2 being sucked into the engine will seriously kill power.
I experimented with a spray system last year but spraying NOS onto the intercooler instead,costs 200euro to refill a tank over here
the solenoid burnt out after 1 day, and the tanks are quite heavy and can only be put behind the seats, it works a treat and is very simple to set up, it only took me a few hours to install my system andf then took it to the auto electrician to wire it into a switch on my dash, i will see if i can dig out any pics.
Anyway my tuner recommended to use water injection system, its very easy to set up when compared to the charge cooler system,the water tank can live in the engine bay and its only £400 to buy the kit it is completely safe when setup properly and offers stable intake temps all year round.
I experimented with a spray system last year but spraying NOS onto the intercooler instead,costs 200euro to refill a tank over here
the solenoid burnt out after 1 day, and the tanks are quite heavy and can only be put behind the seats, it works a treat and is very simple to set up, it only took me a few hours to install my system andf then took it to the auto electrician to wire it into a switch on my dash, i will see if i can dig out any pics.Anyway my tuner recommended to use water injection system, its very easy to set up when compared to the charge cooler system,the water tank can live in the engine bay and its only £400 to buy the kit it is completely safe when setup properly and offers stable intake temps all year round.
water injection is not the perfect solution
whilst it will lower the intake temps - it will be occupying space that could be filled with air
expect power to drop if you use it
it is best used as an antidetonant where is slows down combustion
very useful on a rally car where the engine is high compression and the driver can not afford to lift off the power - the water inj may save the engine from letting go
do you know at what intake temp your ecu is programmed to reduce ignition timing ?
whilst it will lower the intake temps - it will be occupying space that could be filled with air
expect power to drop if you use it
it is best used as an antidetonant where is slows down combustion
very useful on a rally car where the engine is high compression and the driver can not afford to lift off the power - the water inj may save the engine from letting go
do you know at what intake temp your ecu is programmed to reduce ignition timing ?
I was going to go for water injection but maybe not now, what about a water sprayer on the intercooler then? i heard water disperses heat 25 times faster than air?
I have moved my air filter for the back turbo back into the IC box now, if i use a water fogger in the IC box is there any chance it could cause a problem with the air filter? I am beginning to regret moving it from the bulkhead now as it has messed up options for cooling the IC.
I may mnove it back again and block up the hole in the IC box, add a water spraying system and have done with it
I have moved my air filter for the back turbo back into the IC box now, if i use a water fogger in the IC box is there any chance it could cause a problem with the air filter? I am beginning to regret moving it from the bulkhead now as it has messed up options for cooling the IC.
I may mnove it back again and block up the hole in the IC box, add a water spraying system and have done with it
Tux, dont do it! dont turn the noble into a chavs dream car! first we have led lights (sorry chris) and no intercooler sprays! next you guys will want to fit FAKE 'NOZ' purge kits (i heard they spray water). lol
On a sireous note they are effective at cooling the intercoolers down but you are basically using the bottle to cool the intercooler not the air. as other shave said good for a tthe dyno where you want the intercooler (IC) nice and cool but wont last very long. I still think the best thing you can do it try to get more air to the IC. it dosen't seem to matter what size IC you use people still have problems with intake temps. getting the air to the thing has to be the solution!
As for injecting stuff into the intake to cool it down, water wont cool the intake that much. as others have said it more of an anti-dept tool than anything. Great for an all out effort but if you tune is safe there wont be much need for it. Infact, as said above, it could actually reduce you power. Might be wroth looking into methanol injection. this is VERY popular in the states and works pretty well. people tend to tune for it in the US but you should see a power increase from just injecting it. using a hobs swtich you could rig it up so at say 0.5bar boost it starts injecting. Worth looking into.
If you want to get more serious then you could look into pre turbo injection. This is supposed to help inporive the efficeny of the turbos as well as reduce the temp of the air after going throguh the compressor.
Chris.
On a sireous note they are effective at cooling the intercoolers down but you are basically using the bottle to cool the intercooler not the air. as other shave said good for a tthe dyno where you want the intercooler (IC) nice and cool but wont last very long. I still think the best thing you can do it try to get more air to the IC. it dosen't seem to matter what size IC you use people still have problems with intake temps. getting the air to the thing has to be the solution!
As for injecting stuff into the intake to cool it down, water wont cool the intake that much. as others have said it more of an anti-dept tool than anything. Great for an all out effort but if you tune is safe there wont be much need for it. Infact, as said above, it could actually reduce you power. Might be wroth looking into methanol injection. this is VERY popular in the states and works pretty well. people tend to tune for it in the US but you should see a power increase from just injecting it. using a hobs swtich you could rig it up so at say 0.5bar boost it starts injecting. Worth looking into.
If you want to get more serious then you could look into pre turbo injection. This is supposed to help inporive the efficeny of the turbos as well as reduce the temp of the air after going throguh the compressor.
Chris.
Thanks guys , alot of good input , its interesting to toy with ideas but ultimately my biggest problem is before i had my Noble i had a Ultima with a 490 bhp V8 chevy in it , changing to a turbo car from that has proved to be interesting !!! as i have struggled to get used to the lag and lack of boost control made worst by the rise in temps !!! .......wonder if a LS3 Will fit in a Noble ???
TuxMan said:
Thanks guys , alot of good input , its interesting to toy with ideas but ultimately my biggest problem is before i had my Noble i had a Ultima with a 490 bhp V8 chevy in it , changing to a turbo car from that has proved to be interesting !!! as i have struggled to get used to the lag and lack of boost control made worst by the rise in temps !!! .......wonder if a LS3 Will fit in a Noble ???
Isn't that the basis of the Fenix !Blu3R said:
Didn't Lee say he had a package for M12/400 owners whereby an LS + transaxle could be fitted in place?
Not sure if it was design like that, but there was a guy in the US looking in to it. Think he also looked at swinging the V6 arouns 90degrees. I think the problem was with weight distribution thanks to a gearbox being hung out the back of the car. Ill try and dig up the thread. Tux, have you thought about getting on of Mountunes 3.4ltr stroker kits for the engine? That might help a bit with lag. or you could look at injecting a small shot of N2O to spool the turbos. Its supposed to work really well.
Chris.
BobE said:
I guess you could always relocate the aircon heat exchanger/ evaporator from the heater box to above the intercooler....
Bob, the amount of heat an AC heat pup can shift is small at best! and dont forget that running the AC is going to take additional power stright off the engine. I have heard of people using them to get Chargecooler system temps really low before drag runs (google 'KillerChiller').
TUX at what temp is your ECU actually pulling timing?/reducing power? Really daft idea here but if your tune is 'safe' then why not just up the temp limit in the software? as long as your AFRs are good any you are not having any dept you should be safe shouldn't you? Best checking with an actually tuner first though! lol
I'm not sure its about the ECU pulling timing, its just a simple thing that as the air gets hotter your combustion is not as strong due to expansion, in that the air is not as compressed and for the same reason you will always get more power on a cold day.
I doubt it very much that Simons car experienced air intake temps above the ECU safe limit.
I have spoken to my friend about the methanol injection, it is definately the way to go for me, very easy to set up and it literally freezes any metal it touches, so it keeps the engine and intake temps ice cold. Tested and proven to work and is much easier to set up than the charge cooler system.
I doubt it very much that Simons car experienced air intake temps above the ECU safe limit.
I have spoken to my friend about the methanol injection, it is definately the way to go for me, very easy to set up and it literally freezes any metal it touches, so it keeps the engine and intake temps ice cold. Tested and proven to work and is much easier to set up than the charge cooler system.
The 5 litre tank of methanol lasts a very long time between refills, so no worries about running out as you can see the level on the side of the plastic tank, the tank can also live in the front of the car and the pipes run down the sills which keeps it all nice and tidy , i am sold and will fitting before the end of next month before it starts getting too hot.
, i am sold and will fitting before the end of next month before it starts getting too hot.Gassing Station | Noble | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff