How long to change flywheel?
Discussion
ridds said:
Yep, common occurrence. The solenoid fails to engage the starter onto the flywheel and then the thing will spin on the ring gear.
What are your symptoms?
This, 99% sure it'll be the starter. The other 1% is for other things, I highly doubt it'll be the flywheel - the starter motors will get mullered before there is even a mark on the flywheel too from what I have seen. The starter can be taken out and tested within an hour, definitely the first thing to check. What are your symptoms?
I suspect that if it has suddenly failed, it'll be failing to engage completely when testing... If it has gradually become harder to start, it'll be that it is failing to engage slowly and may still test alright without it having to do any work/ without load. Its a tricky one. If its failing to start the car everytime on the button, I would say its pretty much gone. There are kits available to fix them (do a search on here) but we've never used one. At worst, starter motors aren't too expensive, and its a fiddly, but not too difficult job to do the removal/fitting. May be best for piece of mind?
BCA said:
This, 99% sure it'll be the starter. The other 1% is for other things, I highly doubt it'll be the flywheel - the starter motors will get mullered before there is even a mark on the flywheel too from what I have seen. The starter can be taken out and tested within an hour, definitely the first thing to check.
I suspect that if it has suddenly failed, it'll be failing to engage completely when testing... If it has gradually become harder to start, it'll be that it is failing to engage slowly and may still test alright without it having to do any work/ without load. Its a tricky one. If its failing to start the car everytime on the button, I would say its pretty much gone. There are kits available to fix them (do a search on here) but we've never used one. At worst, starter motors aren't too expensive, and its a fiddly, but not too difficult job to do the removal/fitting. May be best for piece of mind?
Yep, also you don't need to take the Trans out to check as you can pop the starter out and then look through the hole to check the flywheel teeth while someone bars the engine over from the front.I suspect that if it has suddenly failed, it'll be failing to engage completely when testing... If it has gradually become harder to start, it'll be that it is failing to engage slowly and may still test alright without it having to do any work/ without load. Its a tricky one. If its failing to start the car everytime on the button, I would say its pretty much gone. There are kits available to fix them (do a search on here) but we've never used one. At worst, starter motors aren't too expensive, and its a fiddly, but not too difficult job to do the removal/fitting. May be best for piece of mind?
I should have explained the whole scenario, but i was in a hurry earlier so...
6 months ago starter was faling to engage more and more frequently, until alomost every time had to rock car to get it to engage. So I got the starter reconditioned and it was much better, but still occasionally span without engaging.
I thought it might improve with time but then 2 weeks ago, starter soan without engaging, then after rocking a few times span without engaging again and then engaged whilst still spinning, possibly kicked back too, and made a nasty metal breaking noise and just went clackety clack sounding broken after.
Got it recovered to the same independent, who found the starter gear broken and replaced it under warranty but said they had never had that happen before. Then they started it a few times and found it kicked back once and were worried that might have caused the starter gear failure. Replaced crank sensor and said no more kicking back now but when starting, failing to engage maybe 2 out of 10 attempts. They suggested might be a tooth on the flywheel damaged but couldn't see for sure.
Sounds like this is unlikely but could be excluded by a proper inspection as you described rather than dropping the gearbox out.
Any other explanation / advice now I've told the whole story?
Cheers.
6 months ago starter was faling to engage more and more frequently, until alomost every time had to rock car to get it to engage. So I got the starter reconditioned and it was much better, but still occasionally span without engaging.
I thought it might improve with time but then 2 weeks ago, starter soan without engaging, then after rocking a few times span without engaging again and then engaged whilst still spinning, possibly kicked back too, and made a nasty metal breaking noise and just went clackety clack sounding broken after.
Got it recovered to the same independent, who found the starter gear broken and replaced it under warranty but said they had never had that happen before. Then they started it a few times and found it kicked back once and were worried that might have caused the starter gear failure. Replaced crank sensor and said no more kicking back now but when starting, failing to engage maybe 2 out of 10 attempts. They suggested might be a tooth on the flywheel damaged but couldn't see for sure.
Sounds like this is unlikely but could be excluded by a proper inspection as you described rather than dropping the gearbox out.
Any other explanation / advice now I've told the whole story?
Cheers.
Could the teeth be inspected using a torch and maybe a mirror after removing the starter motor I wonder? Not easy to get to admittedly.
Fwiw I've always had the 'failure to engage' problem intermittently, even after having a brand new starter/solenoid. I've also had it stick and had to rock the car in gear, albeit only once. The worst mode of failure is when the starter spins continuously until the battery is disconnected, not had that with the new starter yet though. I get the impression that the starter teeth are a tight fit with the flywheel, and that mounting the starter further out (away from the flywheel centreline) might help it engage more reliably, but i dont have any evidence for this
Sorry not much help!
PS Simon how are you finding the uprated gearbox now? I'm having the same.
Fwiw I've always had the 'failure to engage' problem intermittently, even after having a brand new starter/solenoid. I've also had it stick and had to rock the car in gear, albeit only once. The worst mode of failure is when the starter spins continuously until the battery is disconnected, not had that with the new starter yet though. I get the impression that the starter teeth are a tight fit with the flywheel, and that mounting the starter further out (away from the flywheel centreline) might help it engage more reliably, but i dont have any evidence for this
Sorry not much help!PS Simon how are you finding the uprated gearbox now? I'm having the same.
Cheers Rog. I had heard of plenty of other starter problems, just not quite like this though.
I'll ask them to inspect the flywheel fully tomorrow then.
I'm really pleased with the uprated gearbox. I went for the closer ratio option, which I am liking very much although I haven't been on track since Spa last year. I like the noisier whine it makes too, although some people might find it irritating. Just sounds and feels more like a race car to me
And it hasn't broken yet
I'll ask them to inspect the flywheel fully tomorrow then.
I'm really pleased with the uprated gearbox. I went for the closer ratio option, which I am liking very much although I haven't been on track since Spa last year. I like the noisier whine it makes too, although some people might find it irritating. Just sounds and feels more like a race car to me
And it hasn't broken yet
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