Harriers maybe coming back for Libya?
Discussion
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/east-hampsh...
Illustrious being refitted in a way to also accommodate Harriers once again.
Illustrious being refitted in a way to also accommodate Harriers once again.
News said:
THE government is poised to make a sensational U-turn and bring Harrier jump jets back into Royal Navy service.
The News understands defence secretary Liam Fox is holding talks to put jets on HMS Illustrious.
The Portsmouth-based aircraft carrier is in Rosyth undergoing a multi-million pound refit to turn her into a helicopter carrier.
But it is understood Illustrious, which will return to Portsmouth on July 15, has been prepared in a way that accommodates Harriers.
This includes keeping the ramp on the flight deck, which has been given a new coat of special non-slip paint.
The Royal Navy’s jets were axed along with HMS Ark Royal in last year’s Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR), which has left the navy without any jets until at least 2020.
But while Ark Royal is up for sale, the jets are being stored in hangars and could be ready to fly with two months’ notice.
A senior navy source told The News: ‘The Harriers have only been mothballed so they could be brought back out to fly at any time. Until you crush something, it can be used.
‘We’ve still got the ramp on Illustrious so it’s a strong possibility this will happen.’
A number of Harrier spares need to be put back on the ship to bring the aircraft back into service.
‘It’s easily done,’ said the source, adding: ‘It just depends whether there is the political appetite for it to happen, which I hear there is... I wouldn’t fall off my chair if this happens.’
A U-turn on the jets would be embarrassing for the Prime Minister David Cameron, who made cuts to plug a £38bn hole in the MoD’s budget.
But a Whitehall source revealed: ‘Liam Fox has said to several people he wants the Harriers back.’
An MoD spokesman for Dr Fox denied this was the case, saying: ‘We stand by the decisions in the SDSR.
‘We said we will project power from land bases around the world and that is what we’re doing successfully in Libya.’
Sixty useable Harriers have been mothballed while Britain spends £30m a week on RAF raids over Libya.
But figures in the SDSR suggest an aircraft carrier with Harriers could do the job for £80m a year.
Beth Torvell of The Navy Campaign called for Harriers to be used in Libya.
She said: ‘Many other nations sent a carrier as their contribution to Libyan efforts. It’s high time Britain brought back carrier strike capability and rejoined the grown-ups’ table.’
Planes could yet be deployed in Libya
NEWS that the Harrier jets could make a return has been met with relief from within the Royal Navy.
The jets give Britain the ability to anchor off the coast of anywhere in the world and project air power from a moveable airfield.
With no end in sight for the mission in Libya, HMS Illustrious could provide a base for the Harriers.
The warship could sit 15 minutes from the target, saving an awful lot of time, fuel and money in the process.
As it stands, running the air operations in Libya is costing £30m a week on basing RAF jets, their crews and ground staff in Italy, plus fuel and ammunition. The hotel bills alone are reportedly costing £40,000 a night. By comparison, MoD figures show running operations from an aircraft carrier with 24 Harriers would cost £80m a year.
But the political sensitivities of bringing the Harriers back is embarrassing for the government, which at the moment is trying to deny such a plan exists.
The News understands defence secretary Liam Fox is holding talks to put jets on HMS Illustrious.
The Portsmouth-based aircraft carrier is in Rosyth undergoing a multi-million pound refit to turn her into a helicopter carrier.
But it is understood Illustrious, which will return to Portsmouth on July 15, has been prepared in a way that accommodates Harriers.
This includes keeping the ramp on the flight deck, which has been given a new coat of special non-slip paint.
The Royal Navy’s jets were axed along with HMS Ark Royal in last year’s Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR), which has left the navy without any jets until at least 2020.
But while Ark Royal is up for sale, the jets are being stored in hangars and could be ready to fly with two months’ notice.
A senior navy source told The News: ‘The Harriers have only been mothballed so they could be brought back out to fly at any time. Until you crush something, it can be used.
‘We’ve still got the ramp on Illustrious so it’s a strong possibility this will happen.’
A number of Harrier spares need to be put back on the ship to bring the aircraft back into service.
‘It’s easily done,’ said the source, adding: ‘It just depends whether there is the political appetite for it to happen, which I hear there is... I wouldn’t fall off my chair if this happens.’
A U-turn on the jets would be embarrassing for the Prime Minister David Cameron, who made cuts to plug a £38bn hole in the MoD’s budget.
But a Whitehall source revealed: ‘Liam Fox has said to several people he wants the Harriers back.’
An MoD spokesman for Dr Fox denied this was the case, saying: ‘We stand by the decisions in the SDSR.
‘We said we will project power from land bases around the world and that is what we’re doing successfully in Libya.’
Sixty useable Harriers have been mothballed while Britain spends £30m a week on RAF raids over Libya.
But figures in the SDSR suggest an aircraft carrier with Harriers could do the job for £80m a year.
Beth Torvell of The Navy Campaign called for Harriers to be used in Libya.
She said: ‘Many other nations sent a carrier as their contribution to Libyan efforts. It’s high time Britain brought back carrier strike capability and rejoined the grown-ups’ table.’
Planes could yet be deployed in Libya
NEWS that the Harrier jets could make a return has been met with relief from within the Royal Navy.
The jets give Britain the ability to anchor off the coast of anywhere in the world and project air power from a moveable airfield.
With no end in sight for the mission in Libya, HMS Illustrious could provide a base for the Harriers.
The warship could sit 15 minutes from the target, saving an awful lot of time, fuel and money in the process.
As it stands, running the air operations in Libya is costing £30m a week on basing RAF jets, their crews and ground staff in Italy, plus fuel and ammunition. The hotel bills alone are reportedly costing £40,000 a night. By comparison, MoD figures show running operations from an aircraft carrier with 24 Harriers would cost £80m a year.
But the political sensitivities of bringing the Harriers back is embarrassing for the government, which at the moment is trying to deny such a plan exists.
Eric Mc said:
Cupramax said:
Nothing like a war to get the country spending money it hasn't got eh 
Or to realise the inanity of the original decision.
According to Key Forums it is a Harrier GR9 on the gate now.
Not sure where the GR3 is going, there were rumblings a while back about a museum or collection of Harriers, possibly set up at Wittering. I suppose it could be going towards this as they already have a number of different variants such as the GR1, T4, etc.
Not sure where the GR3 is going, there were rumblings a while back about a museum or collection of Harriers, possibly set up at Wittering. I suppose it could be going towards this as they already have a number of different variants such as the GR1, T4, etc.
Very much doubt the Harrier will come back as it would be a huge admission by the Government that they got it wrong with SDSR.
At the time, many within the service and former Senior Navy Chiefs were calling the scrapping of the Harrier a risk and a huge mistake. Could you imagine the embarrasment and loss of credibility that Cameron and co would face by effecitvely ignoring the informed/experienced Chiefs at the time, them subsequently making a u-turn 6 months later?
It would just cement what everyone thought that the SDSR was a rushed cost cutting excercise that left us with huge capability gaps.
Whilst the Government can use Italy as a base, I imagine they will continue to use a mix of Typhoons and Tornados for the Libya mission.
I imagine a lot of the support contracts have also now been cancelled aswell, making reviving the Harrier although not impossible, a more lengthly and costly task.
At the time, many within the service and former Senior Navy Chiefs were calling the scrapping of the Harrier a risk and a huge mistake. Could you imagine the embarrasment and loss of credibility that Cameron and co would face by effecitvely ignoring the informed/experienced Chiefs at the time, them subsequently making a u-turn 6 months later?
It would just cement what everyone thought that the SDSR was a rushed cost cutting excercise that left us with huge capability gaps.
Whilst the Government can use Italy as a base, I imagine they will continue to use a mix of Typhoons and Tornados for the Libya mission.
I imagine a lot of the support contracts have also now been cancelled aswell, making reviving the Harrier although not impossible, a more lengthly and costly task.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I really hope they stop t*ating about and make that admission. The scenario is crying out for a government u turn admitting they made a mistake and the current instability in the middle east shows they got this call wrong - pretty much within a month of the SDR coming out. Operational needs over political vanity....what chance?? 
You only have to look back to see history repeat itself time & time again..
War...ramp up the armed forces, the minute it's over, disband 98% of squadrons!
War...crap, we are hugely under prepared & under equipped, the minute it's over disband 98% of squadrons, ground & crush aircraft.
I realise economics are the driving force, particularly from a political standpoint, but with all the 'campaigns' currently going on that 'we' are involved in...this seemed a particularly short sighted decision.
Politicians
War...ramp up the armed forces, the minute it's over, disband 98% of squadrons!
War...crap, we are hugely under prepared & under equipped, the minute it's over disband 98% of squadrons, ground & crush aircraft.
I realise economics are the driving force, particularly from a political standpoint, but with all the 'campaigns' currently going on that 'we' are involved in...this seemed a particularly short sighted decision.
Politicians
I think the government could pull a great stunt on this, bring back the Harriers that the public love so much(great PR and iconic), and seeing as we could only afford them or Tornado, scrap the GR4s. Half as many crew, offset by slightly higher running costs and an inability to perform first day strike like the GR4s did and it means they keep the public happy, save a bit of money and make the RAF unable to lead the way in any future conflict and be unable to support current ops. Brilliant plan.
If they bring Harrier back at the cost of more GR4s it would be a mistake.
I had to sell my motorbike because I couldnt afford it. For me to buy it back just because I miss it and its good weather for going out on it even though I still cant afford it doesnt seem like a great idea.
And as far as I recall it wasnt a Tory decision to scrap Harrier, the MOD/Armed Forces were given a budget and told to stick to it, unlike previous years it would also have to cover costs of Trident. The RAF thought it prudent to keep GR4 and the abilities it provides over and above the Harriers. The Navy are lamenting the loss of Harrier and fixed wing FAA aviation, yet werent prepared to pay for having the Harriers by themselves.(I dont think that is too far wrong)
If they bring Harrier back at the cost of more GR4s it would be a mistake.
I had to sell my motorbike because I couldnt afford it. For me to buy it back just because I miss it and its good weather for going out on it even though I still cant afford it doesnt seem like a great idea.
And as far as I recall it wasnt a Tory decision to scrap Harrier, the MOD/Armed Forces were given a budget and told to stick to it, unlike previous years it would also have to cover costs of Trident. The RAF thought it prudent to keep GR4 and the abilities it provides over and above the Harriers. The Navy are lamenting the loss of Harrier and fixed wing FAA aviation, yet werent prepared to pay for having the Harriers by themselves.(I dont think that is too far wrong)
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