Using your car to its FULL capabilities?
Discussion
Struck me earlier when I received postal communication which reminded me that the XF is up for renewal this september.
As much as I LOVE it, and I REALLY do, I am NEVER going to explore its FULL potential on the roads.
It's not really a 'track' car either. If I want fun on the track I have 2 rather good bikes that provide a LOT more excitement.
Dare I say it, the new XF diesel is really starting to make sense to me (Good GOD I cannot believe I just typed that!)
Is a 5.0l supercharged big ole comfy saloon really what I need?
I LOVE the power, I LOVE the comfort, I LOVE Jag. (So NO ONE suggest swapping it for a BMW, I cannot stand them)
But it got me thinking, I need a good size car, for the kids. I also like some oooomph, I also like to enjoy 'those times' when you can give a big old lump an absolute spanking on good a/b roads.. But for thrills I have my bikes ( A 1997 Yam R7 (track only) and a 2007 Bimota DB7 road and track, awesome at both)
Have any of you, HONESTLY, got THE true performance out of your car on the road? And if you have, do you use it regularly????
As much as I LOVE it, and I REALLY do, I am NEVER going to explore its FULL potential on the roads.
It's not really a 'track' car either. If I want fun on the track I have 2 rather good bikes that provide a LOT more excitement.
Dare I say it, the new XF diesel is really starting to make sense to me (Good GOD I cannot believe I just typed that!)
Is a 5.0l supercharged big ole comfy saloon really what I need?
I LOVE the power, I LOVE the comfort, I LOVE Jag. (So NO ONE suggest swapping it for a BMW, I cannot stand them)
But it got me thinking, I need a good size car, for the kids. I also like some oooomph, I also like to enjoy 'those times' when you can give a big old lump an absolute spanking on good a/b roads.. But for thrills I have my bikes ( A 1997 Yam R7 (track only) and a 2007 Bimota DB7 road and track, awesome at both)
Have any of you, HONESTLY, got THE true performance out of your car on the road? And if you have, do you use it regularly????
Was it really necessary to capitalise all those words?
No, you'll never use all the performance, but that is the case with plenty of modern cars, even mundane ones. Just go for the version that ticks all the boxes for you and if costs are a concern then go for the cheapest one to run that ticks the boxes
No, you'll never use all the performance, but that is the case with plenty of modern cars, even mundane ones. Just go for the version that ticks all the boxes for you and if costs are a concern then go for the cheapest one to run that ticks the boxes
See your point, at the moment I'd say I do get the full potential out of my battered little Prelude. My commute is up the old A1 and along wide country roads, so I have sweeping roads interspersed with two lane roundabouts that are generally deserted with plenty of space to play with the limits of my traction, safe in the knowledge that nobody else but me (and maybe dolly the sheep) will be involved in my accident should anything go pear shaped.
It's only a 2.2 with 180bhp so find it quite good fun to wring it's neck when I want. When I had the BMW 540 and twin turbo Galant, they were way more powerful and capable cars but if you tried to drift round a corner, there was so much power on tap you'd be doing obscene speeds way too quickly for you to be mucking about with them safely on the road.
Oddly, I've also just renewed my company car and had a similar struggle. I was always going to go for a diesel due to the car tax but I test drove the (don't spit at me - I like them) new 530d and 520d and as much as I wanted the 530d for its 0-60 of 6.2 and extra power, I decided that I'd never really use it the way I do the Prelude so went for a 520d with an options selection the length of my arm for the same price as the 530d would have been
I think I'll probably keep the 'lude till it dies so I can get things out of my system when needed and use the Beemer for wafting around in.
Quite a ramble there from me,
In short. I agree - as painful as it is, you're absolutely right. In terms of raw performance you won't use the limits of the car and the diesel will give almost the same wave of torque you'd get from a V8 for when you're just cruising along sedately.
ETA: By limits, I'm referring mainly to traction, braking, acceleration - Not caning it everywhere at 139mph before anyone chastises me
It's only a 2.2 with 180bhp so find it quite good fun to wring it's neck when I want. When I had the BMW 540 and twin turbo Galant, they were way more powerful and capable cars but if you tried to drift round a corner, there was so much power on tap you'd be doing obscene speeds way too quickly for you to be mucking about with them safely on the road.
Oddly, I've also just renewed my company car and had a similar struggle. I was always going to go for a diesel due to the car tax but I test drove the (don't spit at me - I like them) new 530d and 520d and as much as I wanted the 530d for its 0-60 of 6.2 and extra power, I decided that I'd never really use it the way I do the Prelude so went for a 520d with an options selection the length of my arm for the same price as the 530d would have been
I think I'll probably keep the 'lude till it dies so I can get things out of my system when needed and use the Beemer for wafting around in.
Quite a ramble there from me,
In short. I agree - as painful as it is, you're absolutely right. In terms of raw performance you won't use the limits of the car and the diesel will give almost the same wave of torque you'd get from a V8 for when you're just cruising along sedately.
ETA: By limits, I'm referring mainly to traction, braking, acceleration - Not caning it everywhere at 139mph before anyone chastises me
Edited by stewjohnst on Thursday 28th April 21:57
My Skoda Felicia gets a good spanking most days.
I know what you mean though. I had a 300+hp car and it was rare that I took it above 3000rpm. Seemed such a waste.
Now I have a 200hp convertible which needs to be really revved to feel fast. On a dry road, like tonight, with good visibility and light traffic, I can drive it at 90% of its ability whilst staying within 100% of my own.
Its always nice to use things properly.
I know what you mean though. I had a 300+hp car and it was rare that I took it above 3000rpm. Seemed such a waste.
Now I have a 200hp convertible which needs to be really revved to feel fast. On a dry road, like tonight, with good visibility and light traffic, I can drive it at 90% of its ability whilst staying within 100% of my own.
Its always nice to use things properly.
There are plenty of places I could get the speeds right up there in my Cupra R, but I can't think of many roads (or any even) where I could tax it's cornering ability. It will amble down roads at 60mph without even trying at all, which would have had my old Fiesta understeering into a hedge. I'd have to be willing to a massive accident, and completely surrender my licence, to even begin to test it.
Not using all of it's ability doesn't bother me though. What I bought it for, and mostly use it's performance for, is absolutely effortless overtaking, and the occasional, grin-inducing roundabout exit.
Not using all of it's ability doesn't bother me though. What I bought it for, and mostly use it's performance for, is absolutely effortless overtaking, and the occasional, grin-inducing roundabout exit.
thenortherner said:
How many people have got the talent to use a performance car to its full potential, let alone do it safely? Most people's talent runs out before the capabilities of the car does.
That's me! I'm afraid my Z4 is prepared to go to lengths that my driving talents just don't stretch to.Edited by thenortherner on Thursday 28th April 22:00
Edited by thenortherner on Thursday 28th April 22:14
Looking into some track time next year to really explore her limits though
The Passat Diesel - sometimes.... But that's not saying much.
The TVR? No, maybe 50% at times, but she's soooo quick it would be dangerous on the roads to use her too fully. And in any event I am happy just "pootling" along most of the time, with a quick blip of the throttle now and again to overtake or get out of trouble.
The TVR? No, maybe 50% at times, but she's soooo quick it would be dangerous on the roads to use her too fully. And in any event I am happy just "pootling" along most of the time, with a quick blip of the throttle now and again to overtake or get out of trouble.
Personally - i would be happy to spend all the extra cash on fuel, insurance, road tax etc etc to know that i 'COULD' hit silly speeds very quickly.
Its all relitive isnt it, its not a waste of money if it makes you feel good, it just depends on how important to you feeling good is (think of cocaine and its 'value')
Its all relitive isnt it, its not a waste of money if it makes you feel good, it just depends on how important to you feeling good is (think of cocaine and its 'value')
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yep, it's good. Would need a very open, sweeping or straight road (with no cameras) to really stretch it's legs because WOT in third and above is brutal when the boost comes on, and even on twisty roads you can keep the turbo running just below boiling point and still nip down them bloody quickly. If you are really hammering along it's not delicate or subtle progress like you might make in an Elise, but it's quick all the same. At the same speeds on the same tight-ish roads, an Astra VXR I had a ride in felt unsettled and nervous. Some of the more open roads in the countryside might provide an opportunity to push the cars a bit, but you'd have to be damn sure there were no scameras on you as the speeds would be considerable.I think all of the superhatch crowd are above the threshold of what can be attained on public roads without (at the very least) serious risk to your licence. Something with a smaller output like a Fiesta ST gives you more room to use the revs and being smaller and having less cornering capability, allows you to drive closer to the limit of the car's grip. The acceleration in the ST I'm using as an example is not brutal by any stretch of the imagination, and even at 110mph the car still feels steady (thought I would not want to take anything more than a mild bend at that speed), by which point you are into instant-ban territory. Even in a car like an ST, to really reach the limits you'd have to be travelling at considerable speed and really chucking it into corners.
A small engined, low output RWD car might be a different story however.
On a recent trip in the Mondeo I had the estate section full up, I had both aux power jacks in use (sat nav and cool box), a cd playing, Bluetooth for my phone, the air con and cooled seats and I had the cruise control set, the baby was secured by the iso-fix points.
I think I was close to using the cars full capability that day!
I think I was close to using the cars full capability that day!
Mastodon2 said:
I think all of the superhatch crowd are above the threshold of what can be attained on public roads without (at the very least) serious risk to your licence.
A small engined, low output RWD car might be a different story however.
Agree with both points - even the wife's old 306GTi-6 was borderline too capable for most b-roads and small a-roads, in terms of "driving to the visibility". Her current Golf GTi is actually almost boring at sensible speeds - there is a good chassis under there, you've got to really thrape it to find it though...which doesn't appeal too much on public roads!A small engined, low output RWD car might be a different story however.
I find my 106 Rallye is about perfect for spirited road use. You can use all the revs in the first three gears and only just be over the NSL. You can give it full beans on tight and twisty B roads and it's nimble enough to keep on the right (left..) side of the white line. You can get the rear end twitching on roundabouts without ridiculous entry speeds.
I think low weight and relatively low power is the key to public road fun- I only have about 135hp, but there's only 780kg of car to propel so it picks up nicely and is easy to throw around. The lack of weight also means that the sensation of speed is much greater as our bumpy roads throw the car about a bit more, bringing the comfortable limits down a notch.
I think low weight and relatively low power is the key to public road fun- I only have about 135hp, but there's only 780kg of car to propel so it picks up nicely and is easy to throw around. The lack of weight also means that the sensation of speed is much greater as our bumpy roads throw the car about a bit more, bringing the comfortable limits down a notch.
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