Discussion
Been reading about the CatR600 !!! seems they have a bored out (1998cc) K series pushing out around 240bhp. Anyone know who is doing their engines for them & also how much they would cost approx. Not far away from decision time, new Exige or new engine, suspension, wheels and tyres.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
Think PTP supply the engine? (Rovers official engine building arm).
Its frickin expensive (10k+ IIRC) and at that state of tune likely to need a lot of looking after.
Dare I say, you'd be better off with a honda conversion for the cash, or perhaps investigating the turbo Audi conversion, but thats very low volume at the moment, so not necessarily that heavily tested yet.
Toyota VVTLi 190bhp engined Car plus a supercharger as fitted to this Celica maybe? 
www.pistonheads.com/sales/detail.asp?i=23071&s=156
www.pistonheads.com/sales/detail.asp?i=23071&s=156
No disrespect to the other replies but I know more about this than they appear to.
I blew up a 1.8 vhpd in caterham superlight r. I had it rebuilt by Minister racing (the people caterham always use) to what they call R101 spec. That is a stage higher than the R500 engine (itself 11k + vat brand new) but still a 1.8. The r 500 puts out 230 bhp just over 8000, the r101 puts out 240 at 8800 (that's proper dyno tested stuff). In a caterham it is significantly quicker. The R600 is a 2 litre version of the r 500 engine. It produces 250 bhp but at lower revs and has significantly more torque.
Re durability I need my engine 'refreshed' after every 3000 track miles or 9000 road miles - the same as an r 500. It's an extreme state of tune but very exciting, sounds great (due to extra revs) and would make an exige fly. The extra weight of the exige might mean the 2.0 is the better option. But however excellent (and they are the best in my view) Minister is not cheap. R101 is another £5k on top of the R500 and R600 has to be more than that. My golden rule for tuning is go all the way in one go. Part tuning and then going further later is a waste of money as your junk lots of expensive bits you don't want any more.
Cheers, sounds fun either way!
I blew up a 1.8 vhpd in caterham superlight r. I had it rebuilt by Minister racing (the people caterham always use) to what they call R101 spec. That is a stage higher than the R500 engine (itself 11k + vat brand new) but still a 1.8. The r 500 puts out 230 bhp just over 8000, the r101 puts out 240 at 8800 (that's proper dyno tested stuff). In a caterham it is significantly quicker. The R600 is a 2 litre version of the r 500 engine. It produces 250 bhp but at lower revs and has significantly more torque.
Re durability I need my engine 'refreshed' after every 3000 track miles or 9000 road miles - the same as an r 500. It's an extreme state of tune but very exciting, sounds great (due to extra revs) and would make an exige fly. The extra weight of the exige might mean the 2.0 is the better option. But however excellent (and they are the best in my view) Minister is not cheap. R101 is another £5k on top of the R500 and R600 has to be more than that. My golden rule for tuning is go all the way in one go. Part tuning and then going further later is a waste of money as your junk lots of expensive bits you don't want any more.
Cheers, sounds fun either way!
Which is basically what I said. He can have similar performance with a honda engine with a lot more reliability.
You won't get the same power in an Elise as you do in a caterham due to compromised manifold due to space restrictions.
You'd have to be insane to go the k-series route for this unless race regulations etc. force you to keep the old lump. (not that the 2.0 litre probably even counts on that score)
I looked at doing an audi Conversion, and there are so many differences between the 2 engines 
it is very inefficient to do.You cant use the rover gearbox and get an adapter plate, the engine needs to be at a certain angle, adn the manifold is on the other side.
Shame really as the 1.8T is a great engine, with over 400hp easily possible
it is very inefficient to do.You cant use the rover gearbox and get an adapter plate, the engine needs to be at a certain angle, adn the manifold is on the other side. Shame really as the 1.8T is a great engine, with over 400hp easily possible
why the hell would you want to retain the Rover PG-1 geabox FFS?
the 1.8T engine's torque would murder it, and it's not like it's a good box in the first place.
Bernard Scouse has done two so far (his own Elise and an Exige) so it's well possible. (see www.auto-teknix.co.uk/audi-conv.htm)
he is using the FWD engine with it's own gearbox.
Honda engine wise, this also used the Honda gearbox (6 speed CR). (see www.maidstonesportscars.co.uk/services/lotusHPE.asp)
considering the EU spec Honda is ~204Bhp out the box (JDM versions are ~224Bhp), and have 12K mile service intervals (note that's service, as in oil changes etc - not full re-build), will pass EU3 emmissions, will tickover @600 Rpm, I can't understand why *anybody* would choise a K2000 over either of them?
the 1.8T engine's torque would murder it, and it's not like it's a good box in the first place.
Bernard Scouse has done two so far (his own Elise and an Exige) so it's well possible. (see www.auto-teknix.co.uk/audi-conv.htm)
he is using the FWD engine with it's own gearbox.
Honda engine wise, this also used the Honda gearbox (6 speed CR). (see www.maidstonesportscars.co.uk/services/lotusHPE.asp)
considering the EU spec Honda is ~204Bhp out the box (JDM versions are ~224Bhp), and have 12K mile service intervals (note that's service, as in oil changes etc - not full re-build), will pass EU3 emmissions, will tickover @600 Rpm, I can't understand why *anybody* would choise a K2000 over either of them?
As much as I love Honda engines, have a word with lotus about the size of the re-engineering job required to use another engine. They have different weights, centres of mass and gravity, sizes, mounting points, gearbox requirements etc, etc. An amateur job is a sure way to ruin the delicate balance of an elise chassis. Lotus run a completely different suspension set-up on the 111r. However Minister would do an R600 engine that can slot straight in a mk1 exige. Also, it will look exactly the same as standard! Winner!
the pits said:
As much as I love Honda engines, have a word with lotus about the size of the re-engineering job required to use another engine. They have different weights, centres of mass and gravity, sizes, mounting points, gearbox requirements etc, etc. An amateur job is a sure way to ruin the delicate balance of an elise chassis. Lotus run a completely different suspension set-up on the 111r. However Minister would do an R600 engine that can slot straight in a mk1 exige. Also, it will look exactly the same as standard! Winner!
sorry?
what are you on about?
I stongly suggest that before spouting all this guff, you go and look/drive one, then, you might jusy be in a better possition to actually have something to say about it.
Whist the Audi lump is somewhat heavier (~40Kgs) it can't be that detramental, Ask the guy that ownes it how his first race with it went...
Honda wise, it's only ~10-15Kg's more (depends on which Rover engine you are replacing), it makes zero different the the wieght distribution (as it's slightly further forward), and the COG is also identical (and yes, I have measured both).
where exactly do you get this 'info' from may I ask?
also, exactly how do you propose to get the Minister engine though emmissions tests?
Simon,
how much heavier is the Duratec engine than the rover unit?
I also have to wonder how the Honda conversions will fare when surely you should be able to buy all the "spare parts" from lotus to fit the toyota engine in... and really would still be a more or less factory elise.. (especially for S2 owners)
how much heavier is the Duratec engine than the rover unit?
I also have to wonder how the Honda conversions will fare when surely you should be able to buy all the "spare parts" from lotus to fit the toyota engine in... and really would still be a more or less factory elise.. (especially for S2 owners)
sydneyse said:
Simon,
how much heavier is the Duratec engine than the rover unit?
I also have to wonder how the Honda conversions will fare when surely you should be able to buy all the "spare parts" from lotus to fit the toyota engine in... and really would still be a more or less factory elise.. (especially for S2 owners)
Duratec, from what I am told, works out about the same overall (as in the installed weight).
Toyota wise, the chassis and sub-frame are different to fit in the yota engine, so to change an exsisting car would be nigh on impossible (and that's before you start on the wiring looms etc), also, if your going to go to the hassle of changing the engine etc, why put in a lesser engine?
The Honda engine conversion has already been proven by the likes of Blink Motorsport and Brooke Kensington, the Blink car has even featured in a review in Evo magazine who highly rated the car and only marked it down on its 'Soggy' suspension, which could easily be corrected by new parts.
The Honda unit fits straight onto the existing engine mounts and actually lowers the center of gravity a little aiding the handling even more. You also bin the notchy Elise box and use the very nice 6 spd Honda one.
All in all sounds pretty good, but its is a 10k conversion.
The Honda unit fits straight onto the existing engine mounts and actually lowers the center of gravity a little aiding the handling even more. You also bin the notchy Elise box and use the very nice 6 spd Honda one.
All in all sounds pretty good, but its is a 10k conversion.
I just said have a word with Lotus. I've heard they're quite good at handling and stuff like that.
Silly me, why bother, let a bunch of back street amateurs butcher an elise chassis, for the sake of.... I'm not too sure exactly.... being a bit different? Having something to talk about at anorak elise meets? You tell me mr defensive pants! I'm going back to the TVR forum, they're much more friendly over there. And don't disappoint me with the replies to this one..
Silly me, why bother, let a bunch of back street amateurs butcher an elise chassis, for the sake of.... I'm not too sure exactly.... being a bit different? Having something to talk about at anorak elise meets? You tell me mr defensive pants! I'm going back to the TVR forum, they're much more friendly over there. And don't disappoint me with the replies to this one..
the pits said:
I just said have a word with Lotus. I've heard they're quite good at handling and stuff like that.
Silly me, why bother, let a bunch of back street amateurs butcher an elise chassis, for the sake of.... I'm not too sure exactly.... being a bit different? Having something to talk about at anorak elise meets? You tell me mr defensive pants! I'm going back to the TVR forum, they're much more friendly over there. And don't disappoint me with the replies to this one..
sorry, but I read this as:
"I have no answer for you, so I'll put up a childish put-down and sod off"
...and it'll be 
's at dawn for everyone. Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff