Lotus Elite (Type 14) musings.
Discussion
Hi all,
I had my head turned the other day by an entry in "501 Must-drive cars" regarding the Type 14 Lotus Elite (1957).
The car was powered by a 1216cc Coventry Climax FWE engine (71 bhp@6100rpm and 77 lb/ft@3750rpm). The significant part is that the car was the first Lotus with a GRP monocoque. Unladen (not dry) weight was estimated at 660kg.
On the basis that the engine was sand-cast iron, I was thinking that the Lotus Elite would have been an excellent candidate for a bike-engine swap. (If it doesn't upset too many purists). Bigger engine would be great, although I think a bonnet bulge would ruin the lines.
Again, daydreaming, I came across the 2009 Yamaha VMAX engine (200bhp @ 9000rpm and 167 Nm @ 6500rpm, depending on where you get your stats). I was thinking a V4 would sound quality (a la Lancia Fulvia from that Top Gear feature a few years ago).
From the collective experience of PH, could such a car be produced? If so, would it be driveable? Would the torque tear the monocoque to pieces? Would there be any point of incurring the expense? How do you think the weight of the car would be affected?
I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
Peeved.
I had my head turned the other day by an entry in "501 Must-drive cars" regarding the Type 14 Lotus Elite (1957).
The car was powered by a 1216cc Coventry Climax FWE engine (71 bhp@6100rpm and 77 lb/ft@3750rpm). The significant part is that the car was the first Lotus with a GRP monocoque. Unladen (not dry) weight was estimated at 660kg.
On the basis that the engine was sand-cast iron, I was thinking that the Lotus Elite would have been an excellent candidate for a bike-engine swap. (If it doesn't upset too many purists). Bigger engine would be great, although I think a bonnet bulge would ruin the lines.
Again, daydreaming, I came across the 2009 Yamaha VMAX engine (200bhp @ 9000rpm and 167 Nm @ 6500rpm, depending on where you get your stats). I was thinking a V4 would sound quality (a la Lancia Fulvia from that Top Gear feature a few years ago).
From the collective experience of PH, could such a car be produced? If so, would it be driveable? Would the torque tear the monocoque to pieces? Would there be any point of incurring the expense? How do you think the weight of the car would be affected?
I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
Peeved.
A genuine Elite is now simply too valuable to butcher in such a way. Even a basket case is likely to cost you £25K; a good one £50-£60K.
You can get replacement monocoques, so in theory it would be possible to build a new car from scratch, but they ain't cheap, and yes, it would almost certainly need beefing up to some degree to cope with the extra power: the diff. mountings on the original car were a particular weak point, even with the Climax engine.
There was an Elite replica, called the Encore Type 14, produced a few years ago with a visually very accurate bodyshell fitted to an Elan type backbone chassis, which might offer a practicable solution (it was intended as a kit replica but only one was built, it seems, and that car is currently owned by a PistonHeader), but the backbone chassis wouldn't lend itself to the installation of a bike engine with integral gearbox, due to the shape of the thing. Bike engines are actually quite tall, so you'd end up having to cut a hole in the bonnet or fit a bulge to clear the cylinder heads/induction, which would look a dog's breakfast. You'd also have to deal with some form of reverse gear/reversing mechanism to comply with current IVA requirements for road use.
It would be much simpler to use a Rover K-series or Ford Sigma coupled to the Caterham 6-speed, though either would probably need dry sumping to fit them under the Elite's bonnet line. The Encore 14 used a Ford CVH engine, which fit just fine.
The original climax engine was sand cast aluminium incidentally, not iron, so it was already very light. A bike engine might save you a few kilos; a K-series or Sigma might add a few (more by the weight of the gearbox than the engine, I suspect), but neither would make a huge difference.
You can get replacement monocoques, so in theory it would be possible to build a new car from scratch, but they ain't cheap, and yes, it would almost certainly need beefing up to some degree to cope with the extra power: the diff. mountings on the original car were a particular weak point, even with the Climax engine.
There was an Elite replica, called the Encore Type 14, produced a few years ago with a visually very accurate bodyshell fitted to an Elan type backbone chassis, which might offer a practicable solution (it was intended as a kit replica but only one was built, it seems, and that car is currently owned by a PistonHeader), but the backbone chassis wouldn't lend itself to the installation of a bike engine with integral gearbox, due to the shape of the thing. Bike engines are actually quite tall, so you'd end up having to cut a hole in the bonnet or fit a bulge to clear the cylinder heads/induction, which would look a dog's breakfast. You'd also have to deal with some form of reverse gear/reversing mechanism to comply with current IVA requirements for road use.
It would be much simpler to use a Rover K-series or Ford Sigma coupled to the Caterham 6-speed, though either would probably need dry sumping to fit them under the Elite's bonnet line. The Encore 14 used a Ford CVH engine, which fit just fine.
The original climax engine was sand cast aluminium incidentally, not iron, so it was already very light. A bike engine might save you a few kilos; a K-series or Sigma might add a few (more by the weight of the gearbox than the engine, I suspect), but neither would make a huge difference.
)Yes, I was a little surprised the Encore didn't sell at least a few examples.
Biggest problem, I think, was that it was quite expensive for what was essentially a very basic car - stuff like the brightwork, special glass and wire wheels ramped the cost up a couple of notches above what people were willing to pay (into Cobra replica territory).
Then, of course there's the problem that it's a coupe but it doesn't work very well as a tourer: they're tiny, very noisy inside and not very luxurious (no wind-down windows even) so I guess for most people a genuine Elan Sprint for the same money is a more tempting proposition.
Certainly very pretty, though...
Biggest problem, I think, was that it was quite expensive for what was essentially a very basic car - stuff like the brightwork, special glass and wire wheels ramped the cost up a couple of notches above what people were willing to pay (into Cobra replica territory).
Then, of course there's the problem that it's a coupe but it doesn't work very well as a tourer: they're tiny, very noisy inside and not very luxurious (no wind-down windows even) so I guess for most people a genuine Elan Sprint for the same money is a more tempting proposition.
Certainly very pretty, though...
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