29er Hardtails?
Discussion
I'm quite tall and am looking at getting a new XC hardtail so I was considering a 29er. Does anyone here own one or have any experience of riding one? Why are they not that popular in the UK?
Supposed 29" Pro's:
Rolling resistance (by some 10%)
Bearing resistance and wear (by some 10%)
Tire wear (by at least 10%)
Roll-over stability climbing and descending
Overall comfort over a ride
Grip and cornering balance
Traction
Pinch-flat resistance
26" Pro's :
Weight (300-400g lighter on the complete hardtail bike, all else being equal)
Due to this weigth advantage : faster acceleration, by around 2%
Wheelies are easier, the front lifts more easily.
Flickability in extremely tight corners (where walking would actually be faster)
Wheel stiffness, at least when using hubs of equal flange spacing
I used to think think some of the smaller frame ones look a bit odd but saw an XL 29er today and thought it looked a great bike.
What do people think of the tasty looking Cannondale Flash Carbon 29'er 3
or a Scott Scale 29 Pro Mountain Bike 2011
or a Specialized Stumpjumper HT Comp 29er
I think the stumpy doesn't look quite right but that might be a smaller frame?
Supposed 29" Pro's:
Rolling resistance (by some 10%)
Bearing resistance and wear (by some 10%)
Tire wear (by at least 10%)
Roll-over stability climbing and descending
Overall comfort over a ride
Grip and cornering balance
Traction
Pinch-flat resistance
26" Pro's :
Weight (300-400g lighter on the complete hardtail bike, all else being equal)
Due to this weigth advantage : faster acceleration, by around 2%
Wheelies are easier, the front lifts more easily.
Flickability in extremely tight corners (where walking would actually be faster)
Wheel stiffness, at least when using hubs of equal flange spacing
I used to think think some of the smaller frame ones look a bit odd but saw an XL 29er today and thought it looked a great bike.
What do people think of the tasty looking Cannondale Flash Carbon 29'er 3
or a Scott Scale 29 Pro Mountain Bike 2011
or a Specialized Stumpjumper HT Comp 29er
I think the stumpy doesn't look quite right but that might be a smaller frame?
the boys on www.singletrackworld.com will discuss this with you endlessly for ever and ever and ever.
Horribly long chainstays mean they are a nightmare to move around, manual, wheelie...tried one and hated it. Unpleasant in fast technical singletrack too I thought, although you can ride around this you'll never have as much fun as a 26" wheel bike.
Why else are all the downhill racers still running 26" wheels, although I'm sure the marketing machine will be changing that soon enough...
Why else are all the downhill racers still running 26" wheels, although I'm sure the marketing machine will be changing that soon enough...
I'm also interested in 29er's as the majority of my rides are farm track/bridleways/footpaths with quiet road sections between. I don't really do much technical singletrack type rides.
I think (as you've mentioned) a 29 inch wheel looks better in a larger frame as well.
Unfortunately my budget places me firmly in the entry level of 29er's
I think (as you've mentioned) a 29 inch wheel looks better in a larger frame as well.
Unfortunately my budget places me firmly in the entry level of 29er's
shalmaneser said:
Horribly long chainstays mean they are a nightmare to move around, manual, wheelie...tried one and hated it. Unpleasant in fast technical singletrack too I thought, although you can ride around this you'll never have as much fun as a 26" wheel bike.
Why else are all the downhill racers still running 26" wheels, although I'm sure the marketing machine will be changing that soon enough...
Sure that's down hill racing though. I'm talking about XC and trail bikes. Aren't loads of XC racers on 29ers?Why else are all the downhill racers still running 26" wheels, although I'm sure the marketing machine will be changing that soon enough...
el stovey said:
Sure that's down hill racing though. I'm talking about XC and trail bikes. Aren't loads of XC racers on 29ers?
True enough but it depends what most closely mirrors your style of riding. I suspect that most people who go to trail centres and the like are probably more closely aligned to a downhill rider than a steady state XC ride with very little technical content.Obviously it's going to be horses for courses.
One of the opinions I respect most is the owner on my local bike boutique. He believes that there are a few ways to go to get a decent and competent Hardtail, especially if you want something special.
1) Titanium frame
2)CF frame
3) 29er
I have ridden a few 29er's and a few of the local club riders use them (interestingly, not the racers) I cant say I fell in love with them. Felt slow and hefty. Once on a roll they do deal with the rough bits better than a 26in hardtail. For me that is the advantage, sometimes they are better than a normal hardtail and are particularly suited to larger riders (I am not!). The big wheel advantage is removed by full sus.
Problems for me are finding spares, tyres, wheels, correct gearing, forks etc etc...
1) Titanium frame
2)CF frame
3) 29er
I have ridden a few 29er's and a few of the local club riders use them (interestingly, not the racers) I cant say I fell in love with them. Felt slow and hefty. Once on a roll they do deal with the rough bits better than a 26in hardtail. For me that is the advantage, sometimes they are better than a normal hardtail and are particularly suited to larger riders (I am not!). The big wheel advantage is removed by full sus.
Problems for me are finding spares, tyres, wheels, correct gearing, forks etc etc...
No experience here just an assumption based on an XL 21.5" hardtail on 26" inch wheels, the frame on those look similar but with even bigger wheels, I understand the momentum point, but on anything other than simple XC stuff it's looks like going to be a chore, granted you work with what you have, but I'd have thought you'd be constantly battling against the bike when it gets even remotely technical.
I might try and get a trial on one to see what it's really like.
Oh and of those three the only one that would interest me even remotely would be the scott, the 'dale has a lefty shock which is just so wrong and the Spec' is just odd looking to make it seem ugly, especially with the bent seat tube.
I might try and get a trial on one to see what it's really like.
Oh and of those three the only one that would interest me even remotely would be the scott, the 'dale has a lefty shock which is just so wrong and the Spec' is just odd looking to make it seem ugly, especially with the bent seat tube.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 5th May 10:31
I feel qualified to comment having owned/ridden a 29er hardtail for approx 2 years yet still riding 26"-wheeled bikes regularly: my other regular rides are 160mm travel full-susser (Lapierre Spicy) and a 140mm-forked steel hardtail (456 Summer Season). I'm 6' or so with a 33" inside leg, so am by no means a giant. Mine looks a bit weird being a 17.5" frame, but my preference is small, chuckable frames:
It's a bit hard to compare to my 26"-wheeled hardtail due to important differences (frame material, geometry, fork travel, gears vs singlespeed), but here's my thoughts...
Less rolling resistance: momentum is key in singlespeeding and 29ers are great for this, it's just slowed down less by bumps, etc. (I'm running the same tyre model/tread pattern on my 29er and 26er hardtail: Bonty Jones ACX 2.2s). Suppose you'd call that roll-over stability.
More grip: absolutely, not a massive difference but it's there, particularly when climbing - and again well-suited to singlespeeding where you push the limits of grip by driving a stupid gear uphill and need all the traction you can get.
I'd say you get away with less fork travel on a 29er: my Reba's came as 80mm but I removed an internal spacer to push them to 100mm with a resulting slackening of the head angle a bit. It still doesn't absorb bigger bumps in the same way as my 140mm forked 26er, but it's not far off.
Handling: IMO that's more down to geometry than wheel size, but I can't say I notice anything negative in my 29er's handling compared to my 26ers.
Wheel strength: hmmm. My 29er wheels are certainly less stiff, but that could be due to me comparing stock 29er wheels (cheap ones at that) to my handbuilt Hope-hubbed 26er wheels. It was only recently a mate followed my off some drops and commented on how much my 29er wheels seemed to flex on landing...
Can't say I notice any difference in the other point you listed in your original post. My advice would be to try and test identical-models in 26" and 29" variety and see what you think. But I love my 29er
It's a bit hard to compare to my 26"-wheeled hardtail due to important differences (frame material, geometry, fork travel, gears vs singlespeed), but here's my thoughts...
Less rolling resistance: momentum is key in singlespeeding and 29ers are great for this, it's just slowed down less by bumps, etc. (I'm running the same tyre model/tread pattern on my 29er and 26er hardtail: Bonty Jones ACX 2.2s). Suppose you'd call that roll-over stability.
More grip: absolutely, not a massive difference but it's there, particularly when climbing - and again well-suited to singlespeeding where you push the limits of grip by driving a stupid gear uphill and need all the traction you can get.
I'd say you get away with less fork travel on a 29er: my Reba's came as 80mm but I removed an internal spacer to push them to 100mm with a resulting slackening of the head angle a bit. It still doesn't absorb bigger bumps in the same way as my 140mm forked 26er, but it's not far off.
Handling: IMO that's more down to geometry than wheel size, but I can't say I notice anything negative in my 29er's handling compared to my 26ers.
Wheel strength: hmmm. My 29er wheels are certainly less stiff, but that could be due to me comparing stock 29er wheels (cheap ones at that) to my handbuilt Hope-hubbed 26er wheels. It was only recently a mate followed my off some drops and commented on how much my 29er wheels seemed to flex on landing...
Can't say I notice any difference in the other point you listed in your original post. My advice would be to try and test identical-models in 26" and 29" variety and see what you think. But I love my 29er
I'll add my comments as well, which are based on some experience.
I've owned On One Inbreds/Scandals in 26" form, and I've been on a 29" Inbred for the past year, and for reference I'm 6'1" and 33" inside leg.
For a long time I wasn't convinced by 29ers, they looked odd and I didn't see the point, in spite of people suggesting that they might suit me. In the end I gave it a go, tried a friends and enjoyed it, so built up an Inbred to ride singlespeed. Mine is rigid (carbon) forked with some light American Classic wheels on it, but it's steel frame so I'd guess mid-weight in real terms.
Addressing some of your points, and some of the 'preconceptions' that go with 29ers. It definitely feels like it rolls over uneven ground better, even with the rigid fork. Personally, the rigid thing took me a while to adjust to, but going back to 100mm suspended 26ers I find the 29er goes over stuff more easily, albeit with a little less absorption. It feels like there is a little more grip, and over varied terrain it covers the ground more efficiently.
I feel a little more like I'm perched on a 26er, and can throw it around more, but that only becomes really noticeable on terrain where I may leave the ground a little (I'm not into big jumps) or hairpins. I have no issue with my 29er through singletrack, and would suggest I'm quicker on it than my 26er. My riding is mainly woodland terrain and sandy trails (Swinley Forest and surrounds).
Acceleration doesn't really seem to be too different, but again I spent the money on light wheels which reduce the rotational mass, and run a tubeless set-up with normal Schwalbe tyres.
Handling, as mentioned by one of the other respondees is about the bike design and geometry. I think On One have it pretty sorted, and loads more manufacturers are getting into 29ers in a big way, so the bad designs will hopefully disappear.
Looks are still a debatable point. Mine has grown on me, but 29ers generally don't look as balanced as a 26er. The biggest exception is the Niner Air 9 carbon, which is stunning.
Overall I'd say 29ers are here to stay. I don't think they are going to replace the 26er in Europe anytime soon, but they do offer something different, particularly for the taller rider.
Try and get yourself a test ride and see what you feel - you might like it.
I've owned On One Inbreds/Scandals in 26" form, and I've been on a 29" Inbred for the past year, and for reference I'm 6'1" and 33" inside leg.
For a long time I wasn't convinced by 29ers, they looked odd and I didn't see the point, in spite of people suggesting that they might suit me. In the end I gave it a go, tried a friends and enjoyed it, so built up an Inbred to ride singlespeed. Mine is rigid (carbon) forked with some light American Classic wheels on it, but it's steel frame so I'd guess mid-weight in real terms.
Addressing some of your points, and some of the 'preconceptions' that go with 29ers. It definitely feels like it rolls over uneven ground better, even with the rigid fork. Personally, the rigid thing took me a while to adjust to, but going back to 100mm suspended 26ers I find the 29er goes over stuff more easily, albeit with a little less absorption. It feels like there is a little more grip, and over varied terrain it covers the ground more efficiently.
I feel a little more like I'm perched on a 26er, and can throw it around more, but that only becomes really noticeable on terrain where I may leave the ground a little (I'm not into big jumps) or hairpins. I have no issue with my 29er through singletrack, and would suggest I'm quicker on it than my 26er. My riding is mainly woodland terrain and sandy trails (Swinley Forest and surrounds).
Acceleration doesn't really seem to be too different, but again I spent the money on light wheels which reduce the rotational mass, and run a tubeless set-up with normal Schwalbe tyres.
Handling, as mentioned by one of the other respondees is about the bike design and geometry. I think On One have it pretty sorted, and loads more manufacturers are getting into 29ers in a big way, so the bad designs will hopefully disappear.
Looks are still a debatable point. Mine has grown on me, but 29ers generally don't look as balanced as a 26er. The biggest exception is the Niner Air 9 carbon, which is stunning.
Overall I'd say 29ers are here to stay. I don't think they are going to replace the 26er in Europe anytime soon, but they do offer something different, particularly for the taller rider.
Try and get yourself a test ride and see what you feel - you might like it.
JPJ said:
Overall I'd say 29ers are here to stay. I don't think they are going to replace the 26er in Europe anytime soon, but they do offer something different, particularly for the taller rider.
Try and get yourself a test ride and see what you feel - you might like it.
I wouldnt disagree with that, from what I had heard, Gary Fisher range is about to drop all 26ers from the range and go totaly 29er.Try and get yourself a test ride and see what you feel - you might like it.
One of the guys in the club who rides 29ers is refered to as 29 E.R. (Emergency Room) because he spends more time in hospital than on the trails.
CoolC said:
I presume that is more of a marketing thing though, Gary Fisher 29er's and Trek 26er's. Aren't they part of the same company?
Yep - Gary Fisher are owned by Trek. Though they have the same parts bin, GF designs thier own frames. Think AMG to Mercedes, Fiat to Ferrari. Gary Fishers are wonderful to ride Think of a Trek with some orangy goodness! You basically have Trek buying power for components, Trek warranty on a small volume frame with really nice feel.Gooby said:
CoolC said:
I presume that is more of a marketing thing though, Gary Fisher 29er's and Trek 26er's. Aren't they part of the same company?
Yep - Gary Fisher are owned by Trek. Though they have the same parts bin, GF designs thier own frames. Think AMG to Mercedes, Fiat to Ferrari. Gary Fishers are wonderful to ride Think of a Trek with some orangy goodness! You basically have Trek buying power for components, Trek warranty on a small volume frame with really nice feel.I will probably never buy one. because I'm 5ft 10.
I used to sell a lot though. If your tall (6ft +) it makes a lot of sense.
I remember one customer who was very, very tall. He wrecked bikes. Had a series of ill-fitting, XXXL sized 26" wheels bikes. Used to bend seatposts and seat rails all the time.
Looked like a clown riding most of the time.
Eventually, he stumped up and we built him a full custom Zinn 29er full suspension frame. It was so massive none of the staff could test ride it as we didnt fit.
However when this chap rode his bike, it looked perfect - he looked just like a normal size guy, riding a normal frame, a bit closer! He was very pleased with it.
Thus IMO 29'ers - great for tall people, basically.
I used to sell a lot though. If your tall (6ft +) it makes a lot of sense.
I remember one customer who was very, very tall. He wrecked bikes. Had a series of ill-fitting, XXXL sized 26" wheels bikes. Used to bend seatposts and seat rails all the time.
Looked like a clown riding most of the time.
Eventually, he stumped up and we built him a full custom Zinn 29er full suspension frame. It was so massive none of the staff could test ride it as we didnt fit.
However when this chap rode his bike, it looked perfect - he looked just like a normal size guy, riding a normal frame, a bit closer! He was very pleased with it.
Thus IMO 29'ers - great for tall people, basically.
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