996 GT2 v 997 GT3

[AdvocatusD]

The 996GT2 seems to have stabilised in price in the 40,000 - 50,000 range. With the 997 GT3 heading that way, what floats peoples' boats at the same price level?

Personally, I think it's the 997 GT3 for me. Better looking to me, easier to drive and perhaps even a better investment over time? 997 GT3 not too far off the GT2's in gear performance too from recollection - though the GT2 must accelerate harder.

[jackal]

They are so different that you almost cant compare IMO.

I found that even the 996GT2 is totally different from the 997GT2 in general feel. (I much preferred the older GT2).

[khushy]

nutella & marmite!!!

[supermono]

They feel similar from the steering viewpoint but power wise they are leagues apart. Driven hard and in the high revs range the 3 doesn't hang about in a narrow rev range, but that massive thousands of revs wide 450lbft shove from the GT2 really feels brutal.

Price wise, the 2 will only go up from here, 3s are mass produced and great as they are aren't stable yet.

All IMHO

SM

[Homer J]

supermono said:

Price wise, the 2 will only go up from here, 3s are mass produced and great as they are aren't stable yet.

All IMHO

SM

Agreed.

What's the 996 GT2 count, 130-ish UK examples? vs how many 997 GT3's, into the 1000's?

The GT2 prices can only go one way..........IMHO

[nsm3]

I remember a thread on PCGB forum listed around 280ish 997.1 GT3's in the UK, so probably not 1000's of any variant?

[Slippydiff]

supermono said:

They feel similar from the steering viewpoint but power wise they are leagues apart. Driven hard and in the high revs range the 3 doesn't hang about in a narrow rev range, but that massive thousands of revs wide 450lbft shove from the GT2 really feels brutal.

Price wise, the 2 will only go up from here, 3s are mass produced and great as they are aren't stable yet.

All IMHO

SM

I'd beg to differ on that point SM (my 7 GT3 had MPS Cups on though) once the Cups had a bit of temperature in them, the steering weighed up nicely and remained consistent irrespective of the lock applied.
Regrettably the overly hard dampers and springs don't allow that luxury on anything other than billiard smooth tarmac in the older car.

I've had both cars, the GT2 is more of an event to drive (and more challenging to drive too)
The GT3 is more modern inside and has a superior chassis and suspension (for the road)

The engines are poles apart in character if not in performance.

The GT2 has so much torque compared to the GT3 that it's on road overtaking performance is easily accessable and rapid progress can still be made without ever troubling the boost gauge.

In comparison the GT3 is all revs and thunder, and to make it really perform you have to wring its neck. In my experience, that really p*ssed off other road users, whereas the GT2 tended to waft by without anything like the banshee wail of the GT3 at 8000+ rpm

I felt I could extract a large amount of the GT3s on road ability without being "911 savy" such was the brilliant job the Stuttgart engineers had done with the 997 GT3, I felt it had been robbed of a massive amount of it's "911ness"

So much so that even on the couple of occasions I'd totally overcooked my entry speed into tightening corners whilst playing on some of the faster open sections of road in the Cotswolds, I found that just applying more lock and keeping a balanced throttle saw it's front tyres glued to the tarmac and the chassis saying "is that the best you can muster . . . ?"

The 997 GT3 is a fantastic car, but driven back to back on the road it lacks (IMO) a huge amount of soul compared with the 996 GT2 (or the 996 GT3 for that matter)

There's no doubting the GT3s speed or ability, but it lacks some character compared with the GT2 and all the other rear wheel drive 911s of old.

I was fortunate to drive my old 964 RS on the way back from the 20 year meeting in Northern France last week. The 964 RS has real soul AND character, and whilst it will never have the real world speed of the 997 GT3 on the road, one was left with a real feeling that you had been involved in making the car go quickly, you had to adjust your entry speed and feel the balance shifting before getting back on the throttle. The 997 GT3 does a lot of the work for you and is a lesser car for it IMO.

Ultimately the 996 GT2 has more in common with the older 911s than the GT3 and that's why I have one in my garage.

[AdvocatusD]

Thanks SlippyDiff, a nice write up.

I'm a mere mortal when it comes to driving skills, so I suspect the GT3 is the car for me.

However, this car makes compelling viewing...

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2935596.htm

If I could knock off £5,000, I'd be very interested.

[jackal]

Slippydiff said:

I felt it had been robbed of a massive amount of it's "911ness"

The 997 GT3 is a fantastic car, but driven back to back on the road it lacks (IMO) a huge amount of soul compared with the 996 GT2 (or the 996 GT3 for that matter)

agreed.. 996gt2 far more interesting and bespoke to drive than 997gt2 as well IMO

[AdvocatusD]

In terms of ride quality, is either car more spine shattering than the other? I understand that the 997 GT3 is widely acknowledged for having a very compliant ride for what it does.

[Slippydiff]

The GT3 has a more compliant ride courtesy of it's electronically adjustable dampers. I thought it's NVH characteristics were improved over the 996 too.

The 997 cabin is a nicer place to be, BUT, the 966 GT2 provides a real sense of occasion when you drive it in anger. It's a lot more "old style 911" compared to the 997 GT3.

My GT2 is currently undergoing some upgrades, I hope they'll address some of the cars NVH and compliance issues.

[AdvocatusD]

Slippydiff said:

The GT3 has a more compliant ride courtesy of it's electronically adjustable dampers. I thought it's NVH characteristics were improved over the 996 too.

The 997 cabin is a nicer place to be, BUT, the 966 GT2 provides a real sense of occasion when you drive it in anger. It's a lot more "old style 911" compared to the 997 GT3.

My GT2 is currently undergoing some upgrades, I hope they'll address some of the cars NVH and compliance issues.

Ooooof! Your black GT2 looks the dogs with those black rims! You're not getting rid of it for a song by any chance are you?

[996GT2]

AdvocatusD said:

You're not getting rid of it for a song by any chance are you?

If he is, I'm having it back, again

[996GT2]

jackal said:

agreed.. 996gt2 far more interesting and bespoke to drive than 997gt2 as well IMO

I might be about to get into a 997, some of the 996 characteristics I won't miss but some I probably will if they're not in the 997. How different is it? More compliant and predictable but still a nutter, or a totally different car?

[willmac]

AdvocatusD said:

Thanks SlippyDiff, a nice write up.

I'm a mere mortal when it comes to driving skills, so I suspect the GT3 is the car for me.

However, this car makes compelling viewing...

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2935596.htm

If I could knock off £5,000, I'd be very interested.

I went to look at that car, even went as far as getting a PPI done but other circumstances meant I couldn't proceed . If you want some details PM me, but knowing the seller, you have no chance getting it for anything other than the asking price and even if he would knock a few quid off you won't get any where near 5K. But you never know I suppose !

[AdvocatusD]

willmac said:

I went to look at that car, even went as far as getting a PPI done but other circumstances meant I couldn't proceed . If you want some details PM me, but knowing the seller, you have no chance getting it for anything other than the asking price and even if he would knock a few quid off you won't get any where near 5K. But you never know I suppose !

I hear you. Maybe it's worth his asking price, may be it's not! It's seems to have roughly double the mileage of any other GT2 (mileage doesn't put me off, for the record) but the asking price doesn't seem to reflect that.

I'm fairly fixated on a black car if I go down this route, so unless it's very good value midnight blue not quite there...

[willmac]

Yes I reckon he has to be more realistic about the asking price to be honest. Have been watching prices of GT2s for quite a while now, and there are some on the market that are overpriced. At the end of the day it is what people are willing to pay that commands the price and a few examples of overpricing are Amari's car, the one that was for sale at Costello just to name a few. No chance of selling in current market.

Agree on midnight blue as well. My turbo was a nightmare to keep looking good and so when I do take the plunge, I reckon anything other than MB will be favorite.

[996GT2]

AdvocatusD said:

willmac said:

I went to look at that car, even went as far as getting a PPI done but other circumstances meant I couldn't proceed . If you want some details PM me, but knowing the seller, you have no chance getting it for anything other than the asking price and even if he would knock a few quid off you won't get any where near 5K. But you never know I suppose !

I hear you. Maybe it's worth his asking price, may be it's not! It's seems to have roughly double the mileage of any other GT2 (mileage doesn't put me off, for the record) but the asking price doesn't seem to reflect that.

I'm fairly fixated on a black car if I go down this route, so unless it's very good value midnight blue not quite there...

Dealers would offer you high 20s for that car, I wouldn't pay more than 35 for it.

Midnight looks great on GT2s, Black looks better though

[AdvocatusD]

996GT2 said:

Dealers would offer you high 20s for that car, I wouldn't pay more than 35 for it.

Midnight looks great on GT2s, Black looks better though

WillMac, 996GT2 - good to see we're in agreement! I appreciate you can never buy a car for what a dealer would purchase it for, but I'm not willing to pay well over that pricing set (and touchwood, never have!).

[willmac]

996GT2 said:

Dealers would offer you high 20s for that car, I wouldn't pay more than 35 for it.

Midnight looks great on GT2s, Black looks better though

The car did look stunning in MB I must admit , even with a load of swirls that can be corrected. But the reality of keeping it that way is just torture if not impossible.