No earth wire in socket

[Durzel]

Hi

I'm doing some renovations on my late father's house and have been changing all the yellowed plug and light sockets for brushed chrome equivalents.

I'm not a sparky and this is the first time I've actually tackled anything like this.

I've come across a 3 pin socket that has no switch on it (don't know if that's significant), when I took it off I noticed there was a black wire inserted into the earth terminal, and another black wire in neutral and red in live.

Thinking maybe whoever installed it had been naughty and not used green/yellow sheathing I just connected up the new socket the same way.

When I switched the CU back on the socket tester I had plugged in was completely silent as if the socket was getting no power at all. However when I touched my voltage tester screwdriver on the metal socket casing it read 220v (I assume that's live?)

I took the socket off again and touched each of the wires and it appears both black wires are neutral (reading 110v on tester).

I ended up putting the original plastic socket back on, wired up the way it was originally, and it still doesn't work - although at least being plastic the socket itself isn't energised! (the screwholes are though).

Would I be right in assuming that this socket would never have worked? I tried earthing the faceplate on the backbox instead but this made no difference.

Would a socket with no earth at all have no power at all to anything you plug into it?

[Durzel]

Thanks for the comments.

As a layman I've had no real problems replacing everything else so far, including triple light switches etc
I've taken precautions, taken notes of which wire goes where when necessary, and switching the whole CU off every time I've started using the screwdriver, as well as buying voltage testers etc. I haven't managed to kill myself yet and I've done almost the entire house.

As regards this strange socket - I'm not convinced it has ever worked, but I can't be sure. With the original plastic socket on with the wires in their original places it still doesn't work, but the screw holes are live (at least as far as my voltage tester says).

Here's a pic:


.. Definitely two black wires and 1 red wire.

edit: Forgot to add that all the other sockets in the house appear to be work correctly, and have green/yellow earth wires (connected to the backbox in the case of the light switches, so I've attached flying earth leads to faceplates where necessary)

Edited by Durzel on Friday 4th April 17:01

Edited by Durzel on Friday 4th April 17:03

[Durzel]

Simpo Two said:

I see 1x black, 1x red and 1x bare copper with a black bit stuck on it. That's probably the earth but don't take my word for it.

See, earth is copper-colour

Now I think you're trying to kill me

Both those wires with black insulation read 110v on my £4 B&Q voltage tester (detector?), with the live reading 220v. Surely an earth lead would have zero voltage?

Anyway, I'll be getting a sparky in anyway because I've reached the limit of my ability with it, but was just curious as to why it might have been wired this way to begin with.

[Durzel]

NH1 said:

I think he is using something like this to test with.

Yeah that's the sort of thing. Specifically, this is what I'm using. I don't know how accurate it is but I can tell from having tested it a few times than when it shows 220v I probably shouldn't touch the faceplate with my finger

Clearly I guess I need to get a sparky in, as I can't progress it any further.

Appreciate the comments about safety but I've been very cautious doing this stuff, I've been checking everything I'm touching even with the CU off.

[Durzel]

Spare tyre said:

i got given one of these socket testers http://www.screwfix.com/search.do?fh_search=socket...

not the be all and end all by any means, but is a good starting point

I'm using one of these as well, this one exactly, albeit B&Q branded, this is what alerted me to the fact that all was not well with the socket, as all the other ones I've done have lit the correct LEDs/made a continuous buzzing noise.

Edited by Durzel on Friday 4th April 19:48

[Durzel]

Could be.

Interestingly the rest of the house seems unaffected by the fact the wires from that socket are now taped up and not a circuit, whereas when I'd disconnected the wires on another socket it interrupted the power to others that were previously working.. if that makes sense.

It's conceivable that there's something not quite right with the electrics in the house, but it's not something that as far as I know has manifested in any errant behaviour. I don't think my father actually ever used the socket in question (probably just as well!)

Will be getting a sparky in, thanks for the advice all.

[Durzel]

ColinM50 said:

I've zoomed in on the photo and I reckon the same as someone else said, the bottom black wire goes to bare copper at the back of the mounting box, so I reckon that's the earth. Don't know what sort of meter you've got, but if it's a standard ten quid Multimeter from Screwfix or Maplins, it'll adequately do the job. Turn the switch on the meter to more than 240V AC, then, without actually touching any wires with your fingers, put the black lead from the meter on the dodgy black wire in your box, and then touch the red on the other two wires in turn. Bet you'll get 240v on the meter.

If you're not confident about doing this, as others have said get a sparky in or do what I always do. I get the wife to do it while I'm "guarding" the CU. "Just hold this on here and here dear and tell me what happens when I switch on". Bless her she's only had a belt a couple of times and I tell her it was her fault for not doing what I'd told her.

Will give that a blast, thanks.

Sparky is being booked this week, as I have some other stuff that needs doing.

In the meantime I had another go at wiring it tonight using the wire with the bare section as the earth with no change: socket itself dead, but the faceplate is live (at least if this voltage tester is to be believed - it goes right up to the max reading of 220v on contact with the metal)

It's annoying me now! I don't like unsolved mysteries!