Crypto Currency Thread

[anonymous-user]

Croutons said:

8 days. Pourquoi? No-one knows..

I've seen lots of advertising about it and a few articles, it is quite interesting to some i bet.

[Ted2]

Behemoth said:

Do please conduct your own research to arrive at your own conclusion - plenty of info available @ usual sources (even some referenced in this thread)

10% dip this evening, but I expect more over the coming days

You can just say you're using neuro bot you know. There's no need to be secretive as if you have some special inside knowledge that only you know about..

[Behemoth]

Ted2 said:

You can just say you're using neuro bot you know. There's no need to be secretive as if you have some special inside knowledge that only you know about..

Don't know what neuro bot is. It's hardly secret knowledge that the market looked & still looks toppy

[x5x3]

well this is interesting - now you can actually breed your tulips!

virtual cats

Apparently this game/app/fad/ponzi is 13% of the transactions on the Ethereum blockchain.

I just got one and he is adorable

Please note this is not investment advice but the prices are going crazy even for the crypto world.

[Behemoth]

x5x3 said:

well this is interesting - now you can actually breed your tulips!

virtual cats

Apparently this game/app/fad/ponzi is 13% of the transactions on the Ethereum blockchain.

I just got one and he is adorable

It reminds me of Satoshi Dice. Two observations: 1/ it's spamming the chain & shows how poorly Ethereum scales & 2/ it might lead to a more useful innovation (apparent silliness like this often sets other minds ticking).

Ethereum is carrying colossal regulatory risk & the entire concept has unsustainably large attack vectors, but I like the experimentation.

[Andy 308GTB]

Behemoth said:

You'll be interested in Chris Burniske's slides, Andy : https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/937078996218646... Some good comparators & overall insight in there.

Thanks for the link, very interesting.

I think I need to re-assess my concept of bitcoin. My thinking is going down the path that it isn't a currency but a commodity to facilitate payments & cash flows. This then ties the value of all bitcoins to the net value of all transactions that are to be settled in bitcoin, which is potentially almost limitless... bullish talk - but I still think at the current time & levels that it's a bubble!

[alistair1234]

Anyone holding Power or Wagerr?

[Behemoth]

Andy 308GTB said:

My thinking is going down the path that it isn't a currency but a commodity to facilitate payments & cash flows. This then ties the value of all bitcoins to the net value of all transactions that are to be settled in bitcoin, which is potentially almost limitless... bullish talk - but I still think at the current time & levels that it's a bubble!

Very interesting pov. I'd definitely agree it's an asset with functions beyond store of value. I wouldn't discount the currency aspect - do you consider that not feasible longer term?

Yes, it's as frothy as ever, but then the internet didn't disappear when the dotcom bubble popped.

[WitnessProtection]

Croutons said:

The Spruce goose said:

i am pretty sure iota has doubled in a week.

8 days. Pourquoi? No-one knows..

I'd imagine this announcement more than likely contributed?

[Andy 308GTB]

Behemoth said:

Andy 308GTB said:

My thinking is going down the path that it isn't a currency but a commodity to facilitate payments & cash flows. This then ties the value of all bitcoins to the net value of all transactions that are to be settled in bitcoin, which is potentially almost limitless... bullish talk - but I still think at the current time & levels that it's a bubble!

Very interesting pov. I'd definitely agree it's an asset with functions beyond store of value. I wouldn't discount the currency aspect - do you consider that not feasible longer term?

Excuse me for thinking out aloud. Feel free to point out the holes... believe me, I'm no economist.

Simplistically, a currencies value reflects the well being of one countries economy compared to another country.
But there isn't an 'economy' in the traditional sense behind Bitcoin. A Bitcoins value can only be based upon the amount of transactions that it is being used for or the expectation of demand (or lack of demand) for its use in transactions.

[RizzoTheRat]

Surely at the moment its value is purely what people are willing to pay for it, based on their expectation that it will go up in value, ie it's a commodity not a currency.

[Behemoth]

Andy 308GTB said:

Simplistically, a currencies value reflects the well being of one countries economy compared to another country.
But there isn't an 'economy' in the traditional sense behind Bitcoin. A Bitcoins value can only be based upon the amount of transactions that it is being used for or the expectation of demand (or lack of demand) for its use in transactions.

Sounds like an Austrian School theory. The endpoint is Bitcoin being a global standard. I think you'd really enjoy this podcast https://soundcloud.com/noded-bitcoin-podcast/noded... He's got a book on this coming out next year.

[NickCQ]

Andy 308GTB said:

Thanks for the link, very interesting.

I think I need to re-assess my concept of bitcoin. My thinking is going down the path that it isn't a currency but a commodity to facilitate payments & cash flows. This then ties the value of all bitcoins to the net value of all transactions that are to be settled in bitcoin, which is potentially almost limitless... bullish talk - but I still think at the current time & levels that it's a bubble!

The problem with that argument as I see it is that if Bitcoin is only a carrier for transactions, you don’t have long term holders - ie the average user is just converting fiat to BTC to do a transaction then the recipient is converting back at the other end.

For the vast majority of users, the price per coin then becomes irrelevant as long as it is reasonably constant over the amount of time that it takes to do the transaction.

In the traditional monetary model you also have to consider the velocity of circulation. If you need to do £1 million of transaction volume, you can exchange £1 a million times or £1 million once. This means that there is not necessarily a relationship between the value of the ‘money supply’ ie the stock of 21 million bitcoins and the volume transacted with that stock.

[Behemoth]

NickCQ said:

The problem with that argument as I see it is that if Bitcoin is only a carrier for transactions, you don’t have long term holders - ie the average user is just converting fiat to BTC to do a transaction then the recipient is converting back at the other end.

For the vast majority of users, the price per coin then becomes irrelevant as long as it is reasonably constant over the amount of time that it takes to do the transaction.

In the traditional monetary model you also have to consider the velocity of circulation. If you need to do £1 million of transaction volume, you can exchange £1 a million times or £1 million once. This means that there is not necessarily a relationship between the value of the ‘money supply’ ie the stock of 21 million bitcoins and the volume transacted with that stock.

It doesn't matter. The value of securing through proof of work is high enough to warrant extremely high valuation in this use case. How much does it cost to keep the world's tx flow secure?

[Jonesy23]

Behemoth said:

It doesn't matter. The value of securing through proof of work is high enough to warrant extremely high valuation in this use case. How much does it cost to keep the world's tx flow secure?

Proof of work with minimal inherent value though? What is the tangible useful outcome of all that calculation effort?

If you're looking at BTC as a transaction service rather than a currency then the values definitely can't be justified.

There's a strong argument that the various cryptos fail as both a currency and as a transaction service. They're an interesting experiment, in the original transaction niche they were good but where we are now is very much commodity driven, and mostly shuffling junk hoping it'll appreciate and can be passed on.

[WindyCommon]

Jonesy23 said:

Behemoth said:

It doesn't matter. The value of securing through proof of work is high enough to warrant extremely high valuation in this use case. How much does it cost to keep the world's tx flow secure?

Proof of work with minimal inherent value though? What is the tangible useful outcome of all that calculation effort?

If you're looking at BTC as a transaction service rather than a currency then the values definitely can't be justified.

There's a strong argument that the various cryptos fail as both a currency and as a transaction service. They're an interesting experiment, in the original transaction niche they were good but where we are now is very much commodity driven, and mostly shuffling junk hoping it'll appreciate and can be passed on.

Perhaps the critical question is to whom does that value accrue? It is not clear that it accrues to the holders of the coins, especially if they are not the ones doing the work.

[Behemoth]

Jonesy23 said:

Proof of work with minimal inherent value though? What is the tangible useful outcome of all that calculation effort?

If you're looking at BTC as a transaction service rather than a currency then the values definitely can't be justified.

Securing the world's transaction volume has no tangible useful outcome and provides minimal inherent value?

[Behemoth]

WindyCommon said:

Perhaps the critical question is to whom does that value accrue? It is not clear that it accrues to the holders of the coins, especially if they are not the ones doing the work.

Transaction fees accrue to the miners. They are the ones doing the work to secure the network. The more valuable the network, the higher the fee through the proof of work difficulty algorithm.

[DanGPR]

alistair1234 said:

Anyone holding Power or Wagerr?

I was in POWR for a couple hundred until yesterday.

Chopped it in for XRP...I feel like that could go either way though.

I must say, having a Bittrex account is super useful for small time dealing in altcoins without having to be running 15 wallets on my computer. Obviously if it was any significant amount I'd take it off the exchange.

[Croutons]

WitnessProtection said:

Croutons said:

The Spruce goose said:

i am pretty sure iota has doubled in a week.

8 days. Pourquoi? No-one knows..

I'd imagine this announcement more than likely contributed?

Which shows the tech is good, but it has fk all to do with the coin! I suppose at this early stage people will take anything to try and give them credibility!

Article said: "The data marketplace is a completely separate project that simply utilizes the underlying IOTA protocol,”

Up 50% in the last 24 hours either way...

GRS having a new pump too, good for those who got caught in the middle of the last.