Lili Allen slept with female escorts while on tour.

[anonymous-user]

Only skim read but surprised to read that Morrisey and Lily are an item. Lily likes her beef and she has shown us some perfectly prepared gammon flaps before. With Morriseys confirmed and committed vegetarianism and his previously exalted views on meat consumption its a difficult one to strike a compromise on.

[Sa Calobra]

chrispmartha said:

Rightly or wrongly the difference is the legality of it.

A prostitute is a prostitute. She sleeps with strangers for sex.

You can't glamorise it. You can attempt to hide from it but it's selling your body to whoever will pay.

I'm not questioning legality.

[chrispmartha]

Sa Calobra said:

chrispmartha said:

Rightly or wrongly the difference is the legality of it.

A prostitute is a prostitute. She sleeps with strangers for sex.

You can't glamorise it. You can attempt to hide from it but it's selling your body to whoever will pay.

I'm not questioning legality.

I was just answering your question as to what’s the difference between the two.

[vsonix]

wiggy001 said:

vsonix said:

wiggy001 said:

Regardless of the legality or morality of prostitution itself, this is someone who is constantly telling others how to live (typical of "liberals") [...]

See, your idea of 'liberal' confuses me. Someone who is constantly telling others how to live is 'Authoritarian'. Someone who has a 'live and let live' policy which allows sex work to be legal, is considered to be liberal. You're confusing liberalism with left-wing authoritarianism. Now some left-wing authoritarians may belong to political parties with 'Liberal' in the name but that doesn't make trying to run the lives of others 'liberal' per se.

I'm not confusing anything, which is why I put "liberals" in quotes. Those that call themselves liberal, especially on the left of politics, are often anything but.

OK well that makes a bit more sense but just those quotation marks on their won doesn't really explain what you're trying to say, in fact it's a kind of doublespeak which just pours scorn on actual liberals whilst complaining about people who are not liberals. Why not say "so-called 'liberals'" or "self-identified liberals who are anything but", or just call them what they are, which is left-wing authoritarians.

[curlyks2]

Sa Calobra said:

She had sex with strangers for cash.

And? It's been going on for years... oldest profession etc.

Sa Calobra said:

What's the difference between her and someone who stands on a street in Leeds?

Nothing. Your point is... what?

Sa Calobra said:

Money doesn't make it respectable.

Doesn't make it abhorrent either. Pretty much all careers these days are based on getting paid for what you're good at, from Fruit Picker down to Olympian.

[bad company]

Sa Calobra said:

A prostitute is a prostitute. She sleeps with strangers for sex.

You can't glamorise it. You can attempt to hide from it but it's selling your body to whoever will pay.

I'm not questioning legality.

A baker is a baker. He bakes bread for eating.

It’s not glamorous. It’s baking bread to sell to whoever is willing to pay for it.

Like prostitution it’s not illegal.

Seriously, what is the problem?

[wiggy001]

vsonix said:

wiggy001 said:

vsonix said:

wiggy001 said:

Regardless of the legality or morality of prostitution itself, this is someone who is constantly telling others how to live (typical of "liberals") [...]

See, your idea of 'liberal' confuses me. Someone who is constantly telling others how to live is 'Authoritarian'. Someone who has a 'live and let live' policy which allows sex work to be legal, is considered to be liberal. You're confusing liberalism with left-wing authoritarianism. Now some left-wing authoritarians may belong to political parties with 'Liberal' in the name but that doesn't make trying to run the lives of others 'liberal' per se.

I'm not confusing anything, which is why I put "liberals" in quotes. Those that call themselves liberal, especially on the left of politics, are often anything but.

OK well that makes a bit more sense but just those quotation marks on their won doesn't really explain what you're trying to say, in fact it's a kind of doublespeak which just pours scorn on actual liberals whilst complaining about people who are not liberals. Why not say "so-called 'liberals'" or "self-identified liberals who are anything but", or just call them what they are, which is left-wing authoritarians.

You're right. I guess I just use the phrase so often in debates here and elsewhere that it's become my shorthand.

[xjay1337]

bad company said:

Sa Calobra said:

A prostitute is a prostitute. She sleeps with strangers for sex.

You can't glamorise it. You can attempt to hide from it but it's selling your body to whoever will pay.

I'm not questioning legality.

A baker is a baker. He bakes bread for eating.

It’s not glamorous. It’s baking bread to sell to whoever is willing to pay for it.

Like prostitution it’s not illegal.

Seriously, what is the problem?

I think his ex may have been an Escort and he only found out the hard way.... at least that's what you'd assume the way he protests against it!

[Sa Calobra]

xjay1337 said:

bad company said:

Sa Calobra said:

A prostitute is a prostitute. She sleeps with strangers for sex.

You can't glamorise it. You can attempt to hide from it but it's selling your body to whoever will pay.

I'm not questioning legality.

A baker is a baker. He bakes bread for eating.

It’s not glamorous. It’s baking bread to sell to whoever is willing to pay for it.

Like prostitution it’s not illegal.

Seriously, what is the problem?

I think his ex may have been an Escort and he only found out the hard way.... at least that's what you'd assume the way he protests against it!

Some people find it distateful. A prostitute is a prostitute. Dress it how you like. It's the oldest profession but it is far from the noblist.

Maybe one who protests against me is a Tom.

I've said this a few times now. How would you feel if your mother or sister was a prostitute. Would you shout from the rooftops for her sense of sexual freedom?

[xjay1337]

Sa Calobra said:

Some people find it distateful. A prostitute is a prostitute. Dress it how you like. It's the oldest profession but it is far from the noblist.

Maybe one who protests against me is a Tom.

I've said this a few times now. How would you feel if your mother or sister was a prostitute. Would you shout from the rooftops for her sense of sexual freedom?

It wouldn't bother me as it's their choice and I'm not a self-opinionated person

[Sa Calobra]

Of course. An easy thing to say on an internet forum.

[bad company]

Sa Calobra said:

Some people find it distateful. A prostitute is a prostitute. Dress it how you like. It's the oldest profession but it is far from the noblist.

Maybe one who protests against me is a Tom.

I've said this a few times now. How would you feel if your mother or sister was a prostitute. Would you shout from the rooftops for her sense of sexual freedom?

That would be they’re decision and I’d respect it.

[chrispmartha]

Sa Calobra said:

xjay1337 said:

bad company said:

Sa Calobra said:

A prostitute is a prostitute. She sleeps with strangers for sex.

You can't glamorise it. You can attempt to hide from it but it's selling your body to whoever will pay.

I'm not questioning legality.

A baker is a baker. He bakes bread for eating.

It’s not glamorous. It’s baking bread to sell to whoever is willing to pay for it.

Like prostitution it’s not illegal.

Seriously, what is the problem?

I think his ex may have been an Escort and he only found out the hard way.... at least that's what you'd assume the way he protests against it!

Some people find it distateful. A prostitute is a prostitute. Dress it how you like. It's the oldest profession but it is far from the noblist.

Maybe one who protests against me is a Tom.

I've said this a few times now. How would you feel if your mother or sister was a prostitute. Would you shout from the rooftops for her sense of sexual freedom?

If it was there choice and were happy who am i to judge them, family or not.

The more interesting question is how would you feel if your mother or sister was a prostitute?

[jjlynn27]

Crackie said:

jjlynn27 said:

Crackie said:

I'm interested to know why you've both reached the envy conclusion?

Read the thread.

I did, hence the question...…… if you don't want to answer, that's OK.

It seemed rather obvious. You have a thread with ridiculous 'Z-lister' 'virtue signaling', and a bunch of comparatively unsuccessful dinosaurs whining about who particular celeb slept with. At the age of 30+ she's worth more than £15m,

[MikeT66]

Sa Calobra said:

Some people find it distateful. A prostitute is a prostitute. Dress it how you like. It's the oldest profession but it is far from the noblist.

And there are few jobs that are, in my opinion, away from the teaching/caring professions. But still far, far more noble and dignifying than ambulance-chasing legal careers, for instance, or hard-sell timeshare salesmen, manipulators of financial markets... all legal but all I would hold in lower esteem than a sex-worker. I appreciate that is only your moralistic judgement, however, and not everyone agrees... thankfully.

Sa Calobra said:

Maybe one who protests against me is a Tom.

For someone who seems to know little about the girls that work in the trade, the industry itself nor is affected by it, you are making some fairly judgemental statements, like the bold bit above. Why? What is your gripe if it doesn't affect you? What is your fascination with it?

Sa Calobra said:

I've said this a few times now. How would you feel if your mother or sister was a prostitute. Would you shout from the rooftops for her sense of sexual freedom?

I wouldn't be bothered whoever in my family it was - as long as they were happy, had made their choice willingly and without coercion - you know, what we called consenting earlier in the thread? As for shouting from the rooftops, I would if she wanted me to, and I'd get involved in marching for sex-worker rights if she wanted me, too.

[Driver101]

MikeT66 said:

I wouldn't be bothered whoever in my family it was - as long as they were happy, had made their choice willingly and without coercion - you know, what we called consenting earlier in the thread? As for shouting from the rooftops, I would if she wanted me to, and I'd get involved in marching for sex-worker rights if she wanted me, too.

You seem to come across as someone with a big interest in the trade.

What do you make about all the reports about the amount of serious crimes and incidents against prostitutes?

There's been a few topics on here and guys make it out to be harmless transaction where both parties have fun. There is plenty of stats out there that suggest it's a very dangerous game and the fun is very one sided.

How do these escorts vet out dangerous men when they simply advertise over websites?

[bad company]

Driver101 said:

You seem to come across as someone with a big interest in the trade.

What do you make about all the reports about the amount of serious crimes and incidents against prostitutes?

There's been a few topics on here and guys make it out to be harmless transaction where both parties have fun. There is plenty of stats out there that suggest it's a very dangerous game and the fun is very one sided.

How do these escorts vet out dangerous men when they simply advertise over websites?

Nobody said the job was without risks. Of course there are dangers and those selling sex obviously know that. Other jobs also carry risk.

The point to me is that it’s about personal choices. As long as the girls are not being coerced and working of there own free will I really don’t see the problem.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Sa Calobra said:

Of course. An easy thing to say on an internet forum.

If you are not going to believe the answers why ask the question?

[MikeT66]

Driver101 said:

You seem to come across as someone with a big interest in the trade.

I know girls that work in the trade, so I see their side of the argument. I also spent the best part of two decades working with sexual offenders alongside specialists from the Home Office. We never saw any real correlation between the buying of sex via prostitutes nor the use of pornography among our offenders that underlined sexual offences, so for me it comes down to a matter of morals and principles. As stated, if consenting adults then I see no issue.

Driver101 said:

What do you make about all the reports about the amount of serious crimes and incidents against prostitutes?

That is a great question, Driver101. The conclusions we came to where that the girls affected by serious crimes/incidents were because they were easy targets rather than a direct result of the trade - and had little, if no, protection from the law (re. my earlier comment about the legality of girls working together for protection). That would require a change in the law, however, and which politican/MP would put their name to condoning legalising sex-work? A brave one, that's who - and we lack those at the moment. That is why I think we need a re-assessment of the whole industry and attitudes towards it.

Driver101 said:

There's been a few topics on here and guys make it out to be harmless transaction where both parties have fun. There is plenty of stats out there that suggest it's a very dangerous game and the fun is very one sided.

How do these escorts vet out dangerous men when they simply advertise over websites?

Again, the pertinent points are that the girls, largely, do not operate with any safety structures in place. Fearful of the law, of being named publicly... all make it a potentially bad situation. The frustration is that it could be changed. The girls I know vet via careful telephone conversations and rely largely on gut instinct - if is sounds odd, it probably is.

A little tale to show how tough it can be. One young girl who lives and normally works in the north east of England was 'on tour', working from a hotel in Birmingham. She had booked a client in after a telephone call, but became uneasy as the appointment time approached. She couldn't quite define where the unease was from, but it got worse as the day wore on. At the allotted time there was a knock on the hotel door. She was stood directly on the other side of the door and looked quickly through the peephole - just in time to see her 'client' directing two other men to hide against the wall, out of visibility when she opened the door.

Situations like that can be lessened (never eradicated, thanks to some people just being cts) with a change in the law and attitudes. What are we so afraid of? That some girls may choose it as a legitimate career option? There may be some, but even legalised and legitimised it will never become a mainstream option - a bit like lap-dancing/stripping/porn work. We really need to grow up just a little bit as a society.

Edited by MikeT66 on Wednesday 5th September 14:57

[vonuber]

I really don't get the opposition to it if it is properly legalised and regulated.
What are people so afraid of?