Conspiracy Theories for Cynics
Discussion
DanL said:
mm, insults - an excellent way to get engagement and sway an opinion. If you’re a dick. 
Your problems are:
Enjoy the long weekend.
I didn't ask. Your problems are:
- you assume that the vaccine will come from Bill, rather than one of the many pharma companies or research organisations who are also doubtless working on it.
- that the vaccine will be mandatory, or even that people when offered a choice between having the vaccine or not having it will opt to not have it. The vaccine will sell itself - people want one, same as a cure for baldness would sell itself.
- that the QA threshold for software and medicinal products (particularly where there’s a good chance they may be administered to a large proportion of the population) are in any way comparable, and
- that I’m an idiot.
Enjoy the long weekend.
Eagleye said:
OK, OK, no need to be insulting, your points stand on their own merit.
With regards to the word mandatory - I read it but ignored it. If there was a safe vaccine, who wouldn't want it - other than crazy anti-vaccers of course so mandatory which sounds quite intimidating is irrelevant. Yes, pharmaceutical companies want to make easy money - so do most businesses.
And as for BG - I fail to see a correlation between his forays in OS development and the current situation. It's like saying Richard Branson shouldn't be involved in air travel because of his track record with shonky 70s musicians. That's assuming BG will have any involvement anyway.
Wordplay for my own amusement aside...With regards to the word mandatory - I read it but ignored it. If there was a safe vaccine, who wouldn't want it - other than crazy anti-vaccers of course so mandatory which sounds quite intimidating is irrelevant. Yes, pharmaceutical companies want to make easy money - so do most businesses.
And as for BG - I fail to see a correlation between his forays in OS development and the current situation. It's like saying Richard Branson shouldn't be involved in air travel because of his track record with shonky 70s musicians. That's assuming BG will have any involvement anyway.
1. that is why I said it would be "used to push for mandatory vaccination". This issue will be - is being - hyped up into a "crisis" and exploited by ruthless people to further pre-existing agendas. They always are.
2. I didn't say "shouldn't be involved in" - who would makes such rules? And who would obey them? But leopards don't change their spots.
Hopefully the vaccine will just be a choice like the flu vaccine.
For me I don’t want to be taking anything like that until I feel I’m old or weak enough to worry about my immune system.
I’ve heard docs say people can be reinfected anyway so it’s probably about as much use as an ashtray on a chocolate teapot.
For me I don’t want to be taking anything like that until I feel I’m old or weak enough to worry about my immune system.
I’ve heard docs say people can be reinfected anyway so it’s probably about as much use as an ashtray on a chocolate teapot.
uncleluck said:
Hopefully the vaccine will just be a choice like the flu vaccine.
For me I don’t want to be taking anything like that until I feel I’m old or weak enough to worry about my immune system.
I’ve heard docs say people can be reinfected anyway so it’s probably about as much use as an ashtray on a chocolate teapot.
Likewise. I'm very happy that I don't take any medication outside of the occasional painkiller. Most of the old people I know, together with an increasing number of middled-aged, are on multiple meds and are at the same time pretty unhealthy. So many overweight people and heart disease, high blood pressure and diabetes are really common.For me I don’t want to be taking anything like that until I feel I’m old or weak enough to worry about my immune system.
I’ve heard docs say people can be reinfected anyway so it’s probably about as much use as an ashtray on a chocolate teapot.
I don't think mandatory vaccination will happen with older people unless you're in a health related job. It'll be done with kids by terrifying parents as has been done with MMR and a stack of other vaccines.
Is there a conspiracy? I couldn't care less.
grumbledoak said:
Wordplay for my own amusement aside...
1. that is why I said it would be "used to push for mandatory vaccination". This issue will be - is being - hyped up into a "crisis" and exploited by ruthless people to further pre-existing agendas. They always are.
2. I didn't say "shouldn't be involved in" - who would makes such rules? And who would obey them? But leopards don't change their spots.
But is it arguable that this is being "hyped up into a crisis". It's bloody expensive hype if that's the case. No doubt some will always try to use situations to further their own agendas - take David Icke as a prime example. As for our Government? Really?1. that is why I said it would be "used to push for mandatory vaccination". This issue will be - is being - hyped up into a "crisis" and exploited by ruthless people to further pre-existing agendas. They always are.
2. I didn't say "shouldn't be involved in" - who would makes such rules? And who would obey them? But leopards don't change their spots.
As for point 2, I don't really understand what you are saying (not your fault I'm sure). If it is related to BG, agreed leopards don't change spots and my point isn't so much about rule making as suitability to be involved in a particular area. I wouldn't have put Hitler in charge of the local Jewish youth group but he was pretty succesful at giving the impression that he was the man behind autobahns (which he wasn't).
_dobbo_ said:
Not sure about the leopard and spots thing - hasn't Bill Gates given more money to charitable causes than anyone in history?
Also enjoying the I won't take a COVID vaccine posts, good luck with that guys.
Agreed. There's some weird sAlso enjoying the I won't take a COVID vaccine posts, good luck with that guys.
t being posted on this thread. Goes with the territory, I suppose!Eagleye said:
But is it arguable that this is being "hyped up into a crisis". It's bloody expensive hype if that's the case. No doubt some will always try to use situations to further their own agendas - take David Icke as a prime example. As for our Government? Really?
As for point 2, I don't really understand what you are saying (not your fault I'm sure). If it is related to BG, agreed leopards don't change spots and my point isn't so much about rule making as suitability to be involved in a particular area. I wouldn't have put Hitler in charge of the local Jewish youth group but he was pretty succesful at giving the impression that he was the man behind autobahns (which he wasn't).
It is going to be bloody expensive, and you and I will be paying for it for decades. Plus the unpleasant agendas that gain positions that don't get rolled back after. In the scheme of things I don't worry much about Icke making his videos.As for point 2, I don't really understand what you are saying (not your fault I'm sure). If it is related to BG, agreed leopards don't change spots and my point isn't so much about rule making as suitability to be involved in a particular area. I wouldn't have put Hitler in charge of the local Jewish youth group but he was pretty succesful at giving the impression that he was the man behind autobahns (which he wasn't).
I think you are dragging us into Godwin's Territory on the second, but I will try once more - I was pointing out that people who have ruthlessly chased power and money their entire lives don't suddenly become nice people. It is common for them to put a tiny fraction of their wealth into charitable entities and pay PR people to tell us how kind and generous they are, all the while trying to become richer and more powerful still.
The Bill Gates thing is driven by two of his published beliefs
1) The world would be better off with less people in it
2) One was of achieving 1 is increasing the rate of childhood vaccination
For conspiracy theorists 1+2 = wibble so they think he is using vaccines to kill kids
Actual 1+2=3 more vaccination = more kids reach adulthood which conversely tends to mean families having less children overall on the theory that parents want just enough children to support them in old age, there is some evidence to this although AFAIK it isn't conclusive. Bill Gates actual idea is to bring even the third world to a situation like Japan where the birth rate is too low to even replace the current population, hence less humans, no untimely deaths involved.
1) The world would be better off with less people in it
2) One was of achieving 1 is increasing the rate of childhood vaccination
For conspiracy theorists 1+2 = wibble so they think he is using vaccines to kill kids
Actual 1+2=3 more vaccination = more kids reach adulthood which conversely tends to mean families having less children overall on the theory that parents want just enough children to support them in old age, there is some evidence to this although AFAIK it isn't conclusive. Bill Gates actual idea is to bring even the third world to a situation like Japan where the birth rate is too low to even replace the current population, hence less humans, no untimely deaths involved.
One of the chief secrets of Savile's success was that so many people could not believe that someone could raise millions and be a top of the food chain sexual predator at the same time.
Gates may or may not be a saint but I do not think his charitable donations necessarily give any insight into the man's character.
Gates may or may not be a saint but I do not think his charitable donations necessarily give any insight into the man's character.
CanAm said:
LHRFlightman said:
You think it's the commercial airlines that are spreading the chemtrails?
Bless.
Well of course. It'd be bloody obvious if "they" had military planes flying over us. Though I'm not quite sure where "they" fit in all this gear, bearing in mind that one of the conspiracy theorists "proved' that there was no room in airliners' wings for fuel, and that they were driven by compressed air. He didn't mention where the bloody massive compressed air tanks where.Bless.
And obviously every single airline pilot is in on the conspiracy, because they also help keep the flat earth "truth" from us.
grumbledoak said:
It is going to be bloody expensive, and you and I will be paying for it for decades. Plus the unpleasant agendas that gain positions that don't get rolled back after. In the scheme of things I don't worry much about Icke making his videos.
I think you are dragging us into Godwin's Territory on the second, but I will try once more - I was pointing out that people who have ruthlessly chased power and money their entire lives don't suddenly become nice people. It is common for them to put a tiny fraction of their wealth into charitable entities and pay PR people to tell us how kind and generous they are, all the while trying to become richer and more powerful still.
Thank you for taking the time in writing that - all much clearer to me now.I think you are dragging us into Godwin's Territory on the second, but I will try once more - I was pointing out that people who have ruthlessly chased power and money their entire lives don't suddenly become nice people. It is common for them to put a tiny fraction of their wealth into charitable entities and pay PR people to tell us how kind and generous they are, all the while trying to become richer and more powerful still.
Yes, I agree about the potential for agendas being pursued, I look at Orban and wonder but I fear less for our situation with our Government. Perhaps my wonder, fears and trust are misplaced.
You made me laugh re Godwin, I didn't realise what I did there. As for BG, does there not come a point where wealth and power are no longer pursued? As I've read about the rise of BG, much of his wealth came about because of events happening around him and how he reacted to them and power came with that wealth. I may be wrong on that as it's a long time since I read about how his empire was built but that's how I remember it.
Anyway, yes you were right in the outset - we have different views and mine must appear bewildering to you but to me so does the thought that BG will somehow use this situation to further his wealth and power at the cost of our freedoms.
I also don't believe there will be any need to make a vaccine mandatory.
It should be “researchers delay vaccine until the world governments agree to pay a ridiculous amount for it behind the scenes”
Why is it when you say about not wanting a vaccine people think you’re cuckoo. Nothing to do with autism, for me it’s to do with the fact our immune systems are able to deal with it if we’re fit enough.
Constantly propping our immune systems up against this type of ‘flu like symptoms’ makes me feel nature will just find a way Round just like the yearly differing flu vaccine (that’s a 50/50 shot it’ll even work so you likely get flu anyway and they say “ah it was a 50/50” or you don’t get flu anyway)
Yes, get it if you’re old or unwell in other areas but don’t try and belittle people that believe there’s better ways to keep a healthy immune system.
If I had the choice of being two people...
one, a 55 year old, obese ex smoker with a poor diet who drinks BUT has a ‘covid 19 vaccine’
OR
a 55 year old who’s never smoked, is very fit, regularly exercises, eats a healthy diet BUT doesn’t have a ‘covid 19 vaccine’
Which one would you be? I know which I’d want to be and I’d bet a pound to a pinch of 5hit model 2 would fare better when we get the next outbreak of c19.
Why is it when you say about not wanting a vaccine people think you’re cuckoo. Nothing to do with autism, for me it’s to do with the fact our immune systems are able to deal with it if we’re fit enough.
Constantly propping our immune systems up against this type of ‘flu like symptoms’ makes me feel nature will just find a way Round just like the yearly differing flu vaccine (that’s a 50/50 shot it’ll even work so you likely get flu anyway and they say “ah it was a 50/50” or you don’t get flu anyway)
Yes, get it if you’re old or unwell in other areas but don’t try and belittle people that believe there’s better ways to keep a healthy immune system.
If I had the choice of being two people...
one, a 55 year old, obese ex smoker with a poor diet who drinks BUT has a ‘covid 19 vaccine’
OR
a 55 year old who’s never smoked, is very fit, regularly exercises, eats a healthy diet BUT doesn’t have a ‘covid 19 vaccine’
Which one would you be? I know which I’d want to be and I’d bet a pound to a pinch of 5hit model 2 would fare better when we get the next outbreak of c19.
uncleluck said:
It should be “researchers delay vaccine until the world governments agree to pay a ridiculous amount for it behind the scenes”
Why is it when you say about not wanting a vaccine people think you’re cuckoo. Nothing to do with autism, for me it’s to do with the fact our immune systems are able to deal with it if we’re fit enough.
Constantly propping our immune systems up against this type of ‘flu like symptoms’ makes me feel nature will just find a way Round just like the yearly differing flu vaccine (that’s a 50/50 shot it’ll even work so you likely get flu anyway and they say “ah it was a 50/50” or you don’t get flu anyway)
Yes, get it if you’re old or unwell in other areas but don’t try and belittle people that believe there’s better ways to keep a healthy immune system.
If I had the choice of being two people...
one, a 55 year old, obese ex smoker with a poor diet who drinks BUT has a ‘covid 19 vaccine’
OR
a 55 year old who’s never smoked, is very fit, regularly exercises, eats a healthy diet BUT doesn’t have a ‘covid 19 vaccine’
Which one would you be? I know which I’d want to be and I’d bet a pound to a pinch of 5hit model 2 would fare better when we get the next outbreak of c19.
That's far too sensible so you'll be accused of compromising herd immunity and villified for that.Why is it when you say about not wanting a vaccine people think you’re cuckoo. Nothing to do with autism, for me it’s to do with the fact our immune systems are able to deal with it if we’re fit enough.
Constantly propping our immune systems up against this type of ‘flu like symptoms’ makes me feel nature will just find a way Round just like the yearly differing flu vaccine (that’s a 50/50 shot it’ll even work so you likely get flu anyway and they say “ah it was a 50/50” or you don’t get flu anyway)
Yes, get it if you’re old or unwell in other areas but don’t try and belittle people that believe there’s better ways to keep a healthy immune system.
If I had the choice of being two people...
one, a 55 year old, obese ex smoker with a poor diet who drinks BUT has a ‘covid 19 vaccine’
OR
a 55 year old who’s never smoked, is very fit, regularly exercises, eats a healthy diet BUT doesn’t have a ‘covid 19 vaccine’
Which one would you be? I know which I’d want to be and I’d bet a pound to a pinch of 5hit model 2 would fare better when we get the next outbreak of c19.
Your lifestyle choices don't matter. The argument will be (increasingly is) that it's about the majority, including huge numbers who have made themselves more vulnerable, not about you.
Taylor James said:
That's far too sensible so you'll be accused of compromising herd immunity and villified for that.
Your lifestyle choices don't matter. The argument will be (increasingly is) that it's about the majority, including huge numbers who have made themselves more vulnerable, not about you.
Your lifestyle choices don't matter. The argument will be (increasingly is) that it's about the majority, including huge numbers who have made themselves more vulnerable, not about you.
Big pharma has found a way to hold governments to ransom. Everyone has to have the vaccine "to protect the most vulnerable". Ka-ching.coldel said:
The one thing I love about all these global conspiracies are the monumental amount of people that need to be involved to make it happen, and that none ever say a word, to anyone, ever. It really isn't possible to have the millions of people it would take over the decades to make these things happen to keep quiet.
I stand to be corrected but I believe you only need two people to form the potential for a conspiracy. If those two, or a small group, are sufficiently powerful, then subordinates don't have to be 'in on the act.' They just need to be compliant/deluded/trusting/manipulated enough to follow orders.I obviously can't prove it but I believe Bush and Blair conspired over Iraq. Like all successful conspiracies they covered their tracks and it did not need thousands of people to 'keep the secret.' They didn't think there was a secret.
Taylor James said:
I stand to be corrected but I believe you only need two people to form the potential for a conspiracy. If those two, or a small group, are sufficiently powerful, then subordinates don't have to be 'in on the act.' They just need to be compliant/deluded/trusting/manipulated enough to follow orders.
I obviously can't prove it but I believe Bush and Blair conspired over Iraq. Like all successful conspiracies they covered their tracks and it did not need thousands of people to 'keep the secret.' They didn't think there was a secret.
Exactly.I obviously can't prove it but I believe Bush and Blair conspired over Iraq. Like all successful conspiracies they covered their tracks and it did not need thousands of people to 'keep the secret.' They didn't think there was a secret.
Look at Scientology. Watch the Joe Rogan podcast with the actress who spent her life being a Scientologist and then got out. Plenty of brainwashed people there doing things for a hierarchy that they don’t really know why. They’ll never get to the top in general but work like idiots & pay money to be part of the family.
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