The Trouble with Trump

[gogsboy]

niccis dad said:

How many jobs have been created in the N.E. from the windy things? Damn few. Theyr'e being maintained and erected by foreigners. This is a far bigger scam than what Trump has foisted on us, and we PAY for this st on our energy bills.

Get your priorities straight. What's more important : A lousy golf course or the complete dismantling of our energy security?

Top tip. Buy a diesel generator now.

I know quite a few people involved at various levels in the windy things...none of them are foreigners.

Anyway, our country is full of them, they wont work for Trump as he is paying 2p over minimum wage

[gogsboy]

IanV12 said:

said he was doing it all for his scottish mother
nothing to do with the amount of profit he has or could now make. Does not care about the landscape he has ruined
Such a shame about the wind turbines....

If it was fore his Mither Mary, he would have done it in Stornaway surely

[monthefish]

Putting the whole golf club debacle aside, the man is a complete arse. I wll watch this with interest.

I wanted to watch the 'You've been trumped' programme but have only seen clips, as you now have to pay to watch the programme.

[Kiltie]

The conflict of interest resulting from P&J editor Damian Bates' marriage to Trump's VP Sarah Malone-Bates was mentioned in the other thread about UTG.

For anyone interested, this article is quite interesting although I haven't had time to read through all the responses.

The "Aberdeen Voice" piece makes reference to the Andy Wightman report which looks like a good read but I've yet to go through it.

Cheers,

Eric

[hidetheelephants]

I don't know if the Profanisaurus has an entry for 'Cock-juggling Thunder', but if it did the definition would be 'Donald Trump'.

[Elneld]

Reporting should be neautral and based on facts not personal relations/thoughts etc.

For me though, I think the course is an amazing thing for the city.
I agree with what has been written in the paper so it represnts me and so many more people in Aberdeen(shire). I think it's great!

No I'm not facing a CPO so I am not impacted directly (The CPO's must be awful for those facing it). Then again are all the people who are against it facing CPO's? NOPE!!

If that can be put to one side, the development is amazing for this area and will create income for Aberdeen for 10's of years and maybe even 100's of years.
An area on SSI has been consumed, what impact that has I don't know. The scientific enviromentalists can debate that one.


Like Trump or not, alot of people in the city agree the course is one of the best in the UK. Infact I've not heard of anyone who isn't for the development.
That's a worthless poll but arn't most in the papers!

[Kiltie]

I don't doubt it's a very nice golf course. I'm sure a lot of people will get a lot of pleasure from it and that's great.

Can anyone explain the forward plan to me though?

When I drove down there a few weeks back, the club house / restaurant bit still appeared to be a very temporary structure and I saw zero evidence of the things I "thought" were part of the plan / approval ...

• Permanent club house and facilities.
• Hotel.
• Resort with holiday homes and "golf villas".
• Residential village with public facilities, shops, cafes, pubs and playgrounds.
• Tennis facility, archery range, and equestrian centre.

Is this coming?

Edited by Kiltie on Thursday 29th August 14:09

[Kiltie]

I asked them and ...

[Dryce]

Kiltie said:

Can anyone explain the forward plan to me though?

I can guess for you.

And that guess: not much going on or likely to be going on because the residential development hasn't progressed. Looking at the overall project one might surmise that it was structured such that selling the residential properties would provide the capital for the rest.

So you buy the estate, fund the houses, get all your money back plus some, and then reinvest that some into the commercial facilities. You don't necessarily have to do it in separate stages because but with the economy tanking it makes it a bit more difficult to seed it and generate external funding.

I suspect that the cost of developing the course was the lowest cost part - and provides an anchor for the rest of the project - and doing it first makes sure that any complications with the SSI aspect are a done deal before comitting more funding.

If/when the economy picks suffciently up then presumably construction of the residential part of the project will be initiated and that will leverage the commercial development as well.

[cozmcrae]

I really don't understand why everyone hates trump so much. Granted he is a knob as a person and is very forceful but in order to be really successful in business, you sort of have to be. The golf course looks pretty nice and I personally thought it looks much nicer than what was there before. That iplayer documentary is the worst I've seen in a long time, it is really not worth watching. I get the feeling Aberdonians just want something to moan about and trump fit the bill.

[cozmcrae]

I really don't understand why everyone hates trump so much. Granted he is a knob as a person and is very forceful but in order to be really successful in business, you sort of have to be. The golf course looks pretty nice and I personally thought it looks much nicer than what was there before. That iplayer documentary is the worst I've seen in a long time, it is really not worth watching. I get the feeling Aberdonians just want something to moan about and trump fit the bill.

[monthefish]

cozmcrae said:

I really don't understand why everyone hates trump so much. Granted he is a knob as a person

You've answered your own question.

cozmcrae said:

and is very forceful but in order to be really successful in business, you sort of have to be.

No, you don't. Richard Branson (for one of many) isn't.
Tenacious, hard-wording, relentless - yes, but forceful, no.
Trump is a horrible person with apparently no ethics or morals.

(I have no connection with Aberdeen BTW)

[jamieduff1981]

Trump's successfulness as a businessman is highly debatable too. He's very successful according to himself. Less so according to numerous creditors with a lot of international gravitas.

Not sure how a golf course can look better than a naturally occurring dune range but each to their own and all that.

[jshell]

cozmcrae said:

I get the feeling Aberdonians just want something to moan about and trump fit the bill.

I think this is the crux. 'We dinnae want ye coming here wi aw yir muny'. The guy may be a shyte, but he injected a lot of money into a declining community and redeveloped a wind-swept area of near desolation.

[hidetheelephants]

jshell said:

cozmcrae said:

I get the feeling Aberdonians just want something to moan about and trump fit the bill.

I think this is the crux. 'We dinnae want ye coming here wi aw yir muny'. The guy may be a shyte, but he injected a lot of money into a declining community and redeveloped a wind-swept area of near desolation.

He bought what was a SSSI and some middling farmland and shipped in an Irish firm to build a golf course; his largesse overwhelms me. Have you ever visited the area? I have; yes it's wind-swept but desolate? No, it wasn't. It was a beautiful and unusual dune system until he plonked a golf course on it. Definitely not declining either; anywhere in commuting distance of Aberdeen is prime development territory, and Balmedie is 10 minutes from Bridge of Don and perhaps 30 minutes from the city centre.

[jshell]

hidetheelephants said:

He bought what was a SSSI and some middling farmland and shipped in an Irish firm to build a golf course; his largesse overwhelms me. Have you ever visited the area? I have; yes it's wind-swept but desolate? No, it wasn't. It was a beautiful and unusual dune system until he plonked a golf course on it. Definitely not declining either; anywhere in commuting distance of Aberdeen is prime development territory, and Balmedie is 10 minutes from Bridge of Don and perhaps 30 minutes from the city centre.

I've spent a load of time there over the 17 years I lived in Aberdeen. I remember it very well, and although nice to visit, was nothing that cannot be found elsewhere. In winter it was pretty bleak most of the time and I thought a crap place for a golf course, but hey, it's his money and inward investment is a good thing imho.

The SSSI moniker I do find mildly humerous. There was a pile of wind-swept grassy dunes, a small car-park, a mushroom farm, some poor housing and horrendous traffic to Aberdeen at each end of the day.

[Kiltie]

jshell said:

cozmcrae said:

I get the feeling Aberdonians just want something to moan about and trump fit the bill.

I think this is the crux. 'We dinnae want ye coming here wi aw yir muny'. The guy may be a shyte, but he injected a lot of money into a declining community and redeveloped a wind-swept area of near desolation.

Cozmcrae & jshell - I think you are missing the point.

I don't think anyone has disputed that it's probably a super golf course.

I don't think anyone has suggested that investors in the North East are unwelcome.

The issue is that the public were lead to believe that the overall development would mean ...

• Two world class golf courses.
• A billion pound investment.
• Six thousand jobs.
• A five star hotel and resort.
• Lots of new houses.
• Other leisure facilities and infrastructure.

Five years on, what we apparently have is ...

• One world class golf course.
• Plans for another and a clubhouse.
• Only some £25MM or so invested (may be more now).
• Only some 200 jobs created (may be some more now).
• No hotel and no plans for one.
• No resort or plans for one.
• No houses or plans for any.
• No additional leisure facilities or any plans.

Now, I don't know if the permission was conditional on everything being built but I feel as if that's the way the whole thing was sold to me / us ... and I feel as if we are being duped.

As a non golfer, where I'm at right now is ...

• A foreign company owns a heap of land to the north of my city.
• It was a SSSI but much of it has been changed irrevocably.
• They acquired it for less than market value.
• They're showing no intention of delivering on what I thought they said they'd provide.

All this is bad enough but what really seriously hacks me off is people telling me that I'm just moaning and being insular and not wanting change. That's insulting; it really is.

I also find it deeply worrying that the editorial position of our local newspaper has been compromised and everyone around me is apparently still delighted with the magic beans.

Trump is a dishonest person - just take a five minute google.

I truthfully, genuinely hope I'm proved wrong but I think the Scottish people are being scammed. You and I are being scammed - taken advantage of.

I'm not happy about it and I think Trump as well as our government are answerable ... but it's all quiet.

Cozmcrae, jshell, parsnip and others. Am I being unreasonable?

OK ... foil hat on now ...

I think the long game (pardon the pun) scam is that in a few years time, they'll stop cutting the grass and stop picking up litter and golfers will stop coming ... and the change of use will means that Trump can do what he wants with the site.

By that time, everyone will have forgotten how it all started and Trump will be a hero for investing in some no hope property.

... and on a related matter ...

As a non golfer, I drive down by Pittodrie several times a week and it really does give me a great deal of pleasure to see the King's Links course being used 365 days a year by people who generally could not afford to play Trump. That's the sort of thing our city and shire needs more of.

Edited by Kiltie on Saturday 31st August 13:31

[Kiltie]

Trump withdraws application for second golf course.

Anyone surprised?

Anyone think he'll sell the undeveloped land back at a modest profit to cover costs?

[SydneyBridge]

Sour grapes about the wind farm ???

[Kiltie]

In my view, the wind farm development (it's billed more as a research facility than purely a generating site) was a convenient red herring for him. An excuse not to deliver.