Dambusters, Channel 5 now
Discussion
And you also have to remember that much of this stuff was still classified when the film was made, not public knowledge as it is now. For instance, details of the bomb itself were not yet known, hence the vastly oversized ones fitted to the aircraft, and the fact that all the films of the bomb trials had been 'doctored' by the censors.
There were still a few avoidable errors though.
Richard Todd, at 36, was really too old to play Gibson, who was only 24 at the time of the raid.
Wallis's battles with officialdom were exaggerated slightly; after all the dams had been identified as a target before the war even started - Wallis's idea was just the method of delivering the weapon.
Some of the footage of the low-flying practice show aircraft with bombs already fitted.
The dog (I forget his name now) wasn't killed on the day of the raid, he was killed the day before. And the car did stop - it was driven by an RAF officer. (There are some who claim it was a put-up job, as the dog wasn't popular with some of the men for some reason. Gibson himself wasn't either.)
In footage of Scampton, it can be seen that some of the aircraft in the background are not Lancasters but Lincolns. Indeed in one scene (I believe it's the one where Air Marshall Cochrane drives up to see them off) there's a Canberra clearly visible.
The third target, the Sorpe, hardly gets a mention. This was a huge earth dam, whose destruction was probably more important than the other two put together, but being an earth dam, it meant they had to bomb it in the traditional way and hope to break the concrete core. In the event it was only cracked, although it did need to be partially drained for inspection after the raid. Perhaps the filmmakers wanted to downplay the failure to destroy it. The other two targets, the Lister and Ennerpe dams, were not known about at the time of the film (no aircraft reached the Lister, it is now thought the Bever dam was attacked instead of the Ennerpe by mistake, without damage).
The shot of the aircraft landing after the raid was the same one that had been used earlier in the film, for Gibson's first appearance.
I also read somewhere that some of the details of how the crews were picked were not correct but forget the details now. I'm sure someone can enlighten me.
Hopefully all these errors and more can be put right in the new version of the film, but as far as I know, this is still on hold.
There were still a few avoidable errors though.
Richard Todd, at 36, was really too old to play Gibson, who was only 24 at the time of the raid.
Wallis's battles with officialdom were exaggerated slightly; after all the dams had been identified as a target before the war even started - Wallis's idea was just the method of delivering the weapon.
Some of the footage of the low-flying practice show aircraft with bombs already fitted.
The dog (I forget his name now) wasn't killed on the day of the raid, he was killed the day before. And the car did stop - it was driven by an RAF officer. (There are some who claim it was a put-up job, as the dog wasn't popular with some of the men for some reason. Gibson himself wasn't either.)
In footage of Scampton, it can be seen that some of the aircraft in the background are not Lancasters but Lincolns. Indeed in one scene (I believe it's the one where Air Marshall Cochrane drives up to see them off) there's a Canberra clearly visible.
The third target, the Sorpe, hardly gets a mention. This was a huge earth dam, whose destruction was probably more important than the other two put together, but being an earth dam, it meant they had to bomb it in the traditional way and hope to break the concrete core. In the event it was only cracked, although it did need to be partially drained for inspection after the raid. Perhaps the filmmakers wanted to downplay the failure to destroy it. The other two targets, the Lister and Ennerpe dams, were not known about at the time of the film (no aircraft reached the Lister, it is now thought the Bever dam was attacked instead of the Ennerpe by mistake, without damage).
The shot of the aircraft landing after the raid was the same one that had been used earlier in the film, for Gibson's first appearance.
I also read somewhere that some of the details of how the crews were picked were not correct but forget the details now. I'm sure someone can enlighten me.
Hopefully all these errors and more can be put right in the new version of the film, but as far as I know, this is still on hold.
Edited by Evangelion on Tuesday 27th May 07:33
TheRealFingers99 said:
I think the film isn't up to much. But the documentary was excellent (although some of the footage -- a ship at sea representing near misses by tallboy bombs, for example -- was pretty lame brained).
I love the film - but it is full of inaccuracies and falsehoods - especially about the technical aspects of the bomb (actually a mine) itself. This wasn't because the film makers were stupid or trying to lie - but because the details of the bomb and the spinning mechanism was still on the Top Secret list at the time the film was made.The crews selected weren't all "elite" in the way the film portrays.
The use of lights to gauge height was not inspired by a visit to a London show. Coastal Command had already been using such a system to calculate height for dropping depth charges on submarines.
As mentioned above, the bouncing bomb was really a very large depth charge - so the use of lights was logical in that context.
The use of lights to gauge height was not inspired by a visit to a London show. Coastal Command had already been using such a system to calculate height for dropping depth charges on submarines.
As mentioned above, the bouncing bomb was really a very large depth charge - so the use of lights was logical in that context.
Evangelion said:
In footage of Scampton, it can be seen that some of the aircraft in the background are not Lancasters but Lincolns. Indeed in one scene (I believe it's the one where Air Marshall Cochrane drives up to see them off) there's a Canberra clearly visible.
That's because it was in fact RAF Hemswell, not Scampton, where the RAF's retiring Lincoln's were being stored. Hemswell was used for most of the ground/flying scenes so the ability to have distant Lincolns in the background was a bonus as they only had 3 Lancasters for filming. Only the anoraks can tell they are Lincolns given the similarity to the Lanc. The 3 x flying Lancs were all crewed by RAF lincoln crews in the filming.Scampton was only used for the ground scenes that featured the buildings such as the officers mess etc.
Correct, I'd in fact forgotten that by the time the film was made, Scampton had concrete runways so couldn't be used for all the shots. According to the book Filming The Dambusters by Jonathan Falconer, the formation take-off was filmed at nearby Kirton-in Lindsey, which also had grass runways.
Evangelion said:
Correct, I'd in fact forgotten that by the time the film was made, Scampton had concrete runways so couldn't be used for all the shots. According to the book Filming The Dambusters by Jonathan Falconer, the formation take-off was filmed at nearby Kirton-in Lindsey, which also had grass runways.
Correct.There is (or by now, probably 'was') an old picture of the three lancs and various cast members in the NCO's mess at Kirton.
I was there for a bit, which was nice given I was born & bred in Lincoln!
stephen300o said:
Bet Jeremy enjoyed movie.. Haha, not sure it is worth showing in this day and age.
If it wasn't for the film, the fame of the raid, and Bomber Command, would be very much diminished today. Indeed, I doubt that we would have any airworthy Lancasters flying.It's by no means a perfect film - but it's the only one we have (for the moment) and it is still well worth a watch.
aeropilot said:
Evangelion said:
remembering that the people in the 50's knew infinitely less about the WW2 period than we do.
Hardly, as most people living in the 1950's had actually lived through it.....Interesting post earlier about the Sorpe dam, and how it wasn't the same as the others. I recall a documentary about the raids where they interviewed one of the pilots who attacked the Sorpe - it was more difficult than expected because the model of the dam and surrounding area which they used for practice had failed to include a church tower, which happened to be on the intended flight path. They only found out when they arrived at the dam, and he sat and chuckled as he told the interviewer that he had to go round several times before he was happy with his run-up. His crew were not amused. Wonderful old man.
nicanary said:
aeropilot said:
Evangelion said:
remembering that the people in the 50's knew infinitely less about the WW2 period than we do.
Hardly, as most people living in the 1950's had actually lived through it.....Gassing Station | TV, Film, Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff