Drink vs drug driving.
Discussion
ED209 said:
Alternatively don't break the law and smoke cannabis and you will never get caught out.
Alternatively, think for yourself, make judgements that you believe are sound, don't base your decisions on a prohibition that was passed to us from an American zealot, who based his decisions on the fear that drugs made black people lose control and rape white women. Drug prohibition was founded on American race fear by a gentleman called Harry Anslinger in the 1920s. Look it up. Until then, drug use was as normal as alcohol use and caused no problems at all. Prohibition caused what we now know as the war on drugs, which causes immeasurably more damage than the drugs themselves.
Whilst you are at it, read a best selling book called "chasing the scream". I challenge you. It's fascinating and will also change your view of drug addicts for life.
Just because something is illegal doesn't make it bad. Drugs are illegal for political reasons.
Alcohol is a drug too. Rated in official studies as the most harmful of all drugs, based on harm to the users, and their harm to others.
Alternatively , just do as you are told.
RogerDodger said:
Alternatively, think for yourself, make judgements that you believe are sound, don't base your decisions on a prohibition that was passed to us from an American zealot, who based his decisions on the fear that drugs made black people lose control and rape white women.
Drug prohibition was founded on American race fear by a gentleman called Harry Anslinger in the 1920s. Look it up. Until then, drug use was as normal as alcohol use and caused no problems at all. Prohibition caused what we now know as the war on drugs, which causes immeasurably more damage than the drugs themselves.
Whilst you are at it, read a best selling book called "chasing the scream". I challenge you. It's fascinating and will also change your view of drug addicts for life.
Just because something is illegal doesn't make it bad. Drugs are illegal for political reasons.
Alcohol is a drug too. Rated in official studies as the most harmful of all drugs, based on harm to the users, and their harm to others.
Alternatively , just do as you are told.
Drugs are harmful and in some cases also illegal. Prior to the 1920s drug use caused lots of problems including a pretty famous war. Drug prohibition was founded on American race fear by a gentleman called Harry Anslinger in the 1920s. Look it up. Until then, drug use was as normal as alcohol use and caused no problems at all. Prohibition caused what we now know as the war on drugs, which causes immeasurably more damage than the drugs themselves.
Whilst you are at it, read a best selling book called "chasing the scream". I challenge you. It's fascinating and will also change your view of drug addicts for life.
Just because something is illegal doesn't make it bad. Drugs are illegal for political reasons.
Alcohol is a drug too. Rated in official studies as the most harmful of all drugs, based on harm to the users, and their harm to others.
Alternatively , just do as you are told.
Edited by Graveworm on Friday 14th June 11:07
Shuvi McTupya said:
Sa Calobra said:
It's not just Cannabis though.
There has been an explosion in use of Coke. It's not usual to deal with people daily under the effects or Amphetamines etc.
In a side note why do people see Weed as almost 'harmless'? It's still in your system. Do people think it doesn't impair cognitive/responses etc in any way?
You should build a days grace to a smoke but then most people who smoke weed smoke it regularly..
I actually dont think that weed is 'harmless' in 'our' society. Over use of it will almost certainly have an effect on you wanting to get up and go to work for 10 hours every day for fifty years, just so you can then rest your weary body for a few years before you die, and of course, what with it being criminalised you could also make your self unemployable by getting caught using it.There has been an explosion in use of Coke. It's not usual to deal with people daily under the effects or Amphetamines etc.
In a side note why do people see Weed as almost 'harmless'? It's still in your system. Do people think it doesn't impair cognitive/responses etc in any way?
You should build a days grace to a smoke but then most people who smoke weed smoke it regularly..
In a different world though, I dont see why smoking a spliff every day before you got out of bed would ever really cause the average person any harm.
Of course, different drugs have different effects (otherwise what would be the point) and i personally think that some drugs make you a more dangerous driver and some (within reason) do not. I cant imagine a scenario where trace elements of a spliff you had the previous day would make you any more of a danger on the road than having a beer the day before getting behind the wheel, but you can lose your job and livelihood and potentially your liberty i imagine for one, but not the other even though the punishment benefits nobody.
I certainly would not have a spliff for breakfast, but I know people who do, and they are so used to it that is has little effect. But then they don't work (they smoke for pain relief).
RogerDodger said:
Alternatively, think for yourself, make judgements that you believe are sound, don't base your decisions on a prohibition that was passed to us from an American zealot, who based his decisions on the fear that drugs made black people lose control and rape white women.
Drug prohibition was founded on American race fear by a gentleman called Harry Anslinger in the 1920s. Look it up. Until then, drug use was as normal as alcohol use and caused no problems at all. Prohibition caused what we now know as the war on drugs, which causes immeasurably more damage than the drugs themselves.
Whilst you are at it, read a best selling book called "chasing the scream". I challenge you. It's fascinating and will also change your view of drug addicts for life.
Just because something is illegal doesn't make it bad. Drugs are illegal for political reasons.
Alcohol is a drug too. Rated in official studies as the most harmful of all drugs, based on harm to the users, and their harm to others.
Alternatively , just do as you are told.
Most harmful of all drugs? Due to its widespread availability and social acceptance.Drug prohibition was founded on American race fear by a gentleman called Harry Anslinger in the 1920s. Look it up. Until then, drug use was as normal as alcohol use and caused no problems at all. Prohibition caused what we now know as the war on drugs, which causes immeasurably more damage than the drugs themselves.
Whilst you are at it, read a best selling book called "chasing the scream". I challenge you. It's fascinating and will also change your view of drug addicts for life.
Just because something is illegal doesn't make it bad. Drugs are illegal for political reasons.
Alcohol is a drug too. Rated in official studies as the most harmful of all drugs, based on harm to the users, and their harm to others.
Alternatively , just do as you are told.
Let's not talk about Opiods and other substances prescribed daily to millions huh.
Let's not forget people who smoke also do other things like alcohol etc.
Ouch.
Graveworm said:
Drugs are harmful and in some cases also illegal.
That's a very broad stroke of the brush.Heroin, for example, uncut from dealers, is medically proven to have no physiological harmful effects at all. It's also officially ranked less addictive than tobacco. It's the fact it is illegal that means users don't know what they are injecting, and often with dirty needles, and because its illegal, it's expensive, which means they steal to get their supply, which means they end up homeless, which results in poor living conditions.
It's not as black and white as we like to think it is.
Of course some drugs are harmful, but the vast majority of people moderate their use and no harm is done. Those that don't are usually masking a troubled life that leads to addiction whatever is available to them.
Sa Calobra said:
Most harmful of all drugs? Due to its widespread availability and social acceptance.
Let's not talk about Opiods and other substances prescribed daily to millions huh.
Let's not forget people who smoke also do other things like alcohol etc.
Ouch.
Not sure I fully understand all your comments. But regarding most harmful. The study wasn't on quantity of harm (Ie number of people) but on harm per person, so availability and acceptance are not relevent.Let's not talk about Opiods and other substances prescribed daily to millions huh.
Let's not forget people who smoke also do other things like alcohol etc.
Ouch.
Go on, let's talk about opioids...
Not sure I get what you are angling at with the last bit about smoking and drinking.
RogerDodger said:
That's a very broad stroke of the brush.
Heroin, for example, uncut from dealers, is medically proven to have no physiological harmful effects at all. It's also officially ranked less addictive than tobacco. It's the fact it is illegal that means users don't know what they are injecting, and often with dirty needles, and because its illegal, it's expensive, which means they steal to get their supply, which means they end up homeless, which results in poor living conditions.
It's not as black and white as we like to think it is.
Of course some drugs are harmful, but the vast majority of people moderate their use and no harm is done. Those that don't are usually masking a troubled life that leads to addiction whatever is available to them.
So you are saying that you can take as much pure uncut heroin as you like and have no physiological harm at all??Heroin, for example, uncut from dealers, is medically proven to have no physiological harmful effects at all. It's also officially ranked less addictive than tobacco. It's the fact it is illegal that means users don't know what they are injecting, and often with dirty needles, and because its illegal, it's expensive, which means they steal to get their supply, which means they end up homeless, which results in poor living conditions.
It's not as black and white as we like to think it is.
Of course some drugs are harmful, but the vast majority of people moderate their use and no harm is done. Those that don't are usually masking a troubled life that leads to addiction whatever is available to them.
How did we get from talking about cannabis to talking about opiates? When was the last time you heard of someone being done for driving under the influence of heroin or opium (not saying it never happens)? Once again it's this ignorant idea of indiscriminately grouping all illegal substances into the same category of 'drugs'.
Has there ever been a Cannabis War? No. There's some dodgy logic at work here in this thread. Opium Wars happened, therefore all drugs are bad? Sounds like fear to me. What about all the wars fought over oil? Yet here we are on a petrolhead forum.
Has there ever been a Cannabis War? No. There's some dodgy logic at work here in this thread. Opium Wars happened, therefore all drugs are bad? Sounds like fear to me. What about all the wars fought over oil? Yet here we are on a petrolhead forum.
Edited by jchesh on Friday 14th June 11:37
jchesh said:
How did we get onto opiates? When was the last time you heard of someone being done for driving under the influence of heroin or opium (not saying it never happens)? Once again it's this ignorant idea of indiscriminately grouping all illegal substances into the same category of 'drugs'.
Has there ever been a Cannabis War? No. There's some dodgy logic at work here in this thread. Opium Wars happened, therefore all drugs are bad? What about all the wars fought over oil? Yet here we are on a petrolhead forum.
It's just a point of discussion.Has there ever been a Cannabis War? No. There's some dodgy logic at work here in this thread. Opium Wars happened, therefore all drugs are bad? What about all the wars fought over oil? Yet here we are on a petrolhead forum.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 14th June 11:33
There is kind of a cannabis war. There is the "war on drugs" . Headed by the USA and followed by most of the world (primarily, historically, because the USA threatened sanctions if they were not followed). No drug gets to you without criminal activity, bar what your mate might grow), and it's the prohibition that causes the criminality, and a huge war faught by law enforcement all over the world to try and stop it. Cannabis is slowly being removed from the battle, ironically, in the USA (and Portugal, Spain, Uruguay, Netherlands, Switzerland , to make a few).
We've ended up talking about heroin because I'm responding to the "its illegal you should not do it" replies, which are understandable, but in my (and many others) opinion, a result of badly motivated historical decisions.
In all countries where they have decriminalised heroin (either giving out methadone, or , heroin) deaths from heroin use have dropped to practically zero. That tells you a lot.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 14th June 11:46
jchesh said:
How did we get onto opiates? When was the last time you heard of someone being done for driving under the influence of heroin or opium (not saying it never happens)? Once again it's this ignorant idea of indiscriminately grouping all illegal substances into the same category of 'drugs'.
Has there ever been a Cannabis War? No. There's some dodgy logic at work here in this thread. Opium Wars happened, therefore all drugs are bad? What about all the wars fought over oil? Yet here we are on a petrolhead forum.
Massive straw man. A point was made that drugs were legal until the 20s and prior to that caused no harm at all. Just not true. The Opium wars were just an aside as to the indirect harm caused by Opium.Has there ever been a Cannabis War? No. There's some dodgy logic at work here in this thread. Opium Wars happened, therefore all drugs are bad? What about all the wars fought over oil? Yet here we are on a petrolhead forum.
Edited by jchesh on Friday 14th June 11:33
However in respect to controlled drugs - yes they are all harmful. As are some uncontrolled drugs.
jchesh said:
Has there ever been a Cannabis War? No. There's some dodgy logic at work here in this thread. Opium Wars happened, therefore all drugs are bad? What about all the wars fought over oil? Yet here we are on a petrolhead forum.
Some would say that some recent wars were fought over both opium AND oil! The Taliban were doing everything they could to shut down the Poppy Fields in Afghanistan, centered around the Helmand Province (sound familiar?). It also happened to be the planned route for a major oil carrying pipeline. The area certainly had no connection what so ever to the events of September 11th..Graveworm said:
However in respect to controlled drugs - yes they are all harmful. As are some uncontrolled drugs.
How harmful? Compared to what? I think any man will agree that petty much all things we ingest are harmful to some degree, but we choose to take the risk.
We all risk alcohol which officially ranks as no. 1 , yet we scoff at other drugs.
This is a quick Google for a study I was referring to (well, one of several)
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2010/11/0...
This is the study in the Lancet (THE officially recognised scientific paper research source)
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/...
Alcohol rated 72, with heroin coming in at 55 (this is harm to you AND those around you)
RogerDodger said:
It's just a point of discussion.
There is kind of a cannabis war. There is the "war on drugs" . Headed by the USA and followed by most of the world (primarily, historically, because the USA threatened sanctions if they were not followed). No drug gets to you without criminal activity, bar what your mate might grow), and it's the prohibition that causes the criminality, and a huge war faught by law enforcement all over the world to try and stop it. Cannabis is slowly being removed from the battle, ironically, in the USA (and Portugal, Spain, Uruguay, Netherlands, Switzerland , to make a few).
We've ended up talking about heroin because I'm responding to the "its illegal you should not do it" replies, which are understandable, but in my (and many others) opinion, a result of badly motivated historical decisions.
In all countries where they have decriminalised heroin (either giving out methadone, or , heroin) deaths from heroin use have dropped to practically zero. That tells you a lot.
It's great to see - it's practically zero compared to here that's for sure. Here we have a huge heroin problem compared to the rest of Europe so we probably should try something. We have nothing like the synthetic problem some parts of Europe & the US have yet. An increasing amount of the UK heroin started out as medicinal heroin on the continent so it's not without issue. There is kind of a cannabis war. There is the "war on drugs" . Headed by the USA and followed by most of the world (primarily, historically, because the USA threatened sanctions if they were not followed). No drug gets to you without criminal activity, bar what your mate might grow), and it's the prohibition that causes the criminality, and a huge war faught by law enforcement all over the world to try and stop it. Cannabis is slowly being removed from the battle, ironically, in the USA (and Portugal, Spain, Uruguay, Netherlands, Switzerland , to make a few).
We've ended up talking about heroin because I'm responding to the "its illegal you should not do it" replies, which are understandable, but in my (and many others) opinion, a result of badly motivated historical decisions.
In all countries where they have decriminalised heroin (either giving out methadone, or , heroin) deaths from heroin use have dropped to practically zero. That tells you a lot.
In America they have a huge problem with opiate pain killers.
They prescribe them willy hilly for any pain, then, under federal law, the moment you show signs of dependency, they are forbidden for prescribing any more. They would get struck off.
So you get addicted by accident, then the moment you actually need help, and weaning off, you are cut off. Nada. Nothing.
So there is a huge illegal trade in pain killers.
...and herion is a fraction of the price of the pain killers they are hooked on., And easier to get. So the problem is more than obvious
It's all madness. Very sad.
They prescribe them willy hilly for any pain, then, under federal law, the moment you show signs of dependency, they are forbidden for prescribing any more. They would get struck off.
So you get addicted by accident, then the moment you actually need help, and weaning off, you are cut off. Nada. Nothing.
So there is a huge illegal trade in pain killers.
...and herion is a fraction of the price of the pain killers they are hooked on., And easier to get. So the problem is more than obvious
It's all madness. Very sad.
Graveworm said:
Massive straw man. A point was made that drugs were legal until the 20s and prior to that caused no harm at all. Just not true. The Opium wars were just an aside as to the indirect harm caused by Opium.
However in respect to controlled drugs - yes they are all harmful. As are some uncontrolled drugs.
My point was merely that 'Historical war(s) have occurred relating to particular product' ≠ 'Particular product is universally evil.'However in respect to controlled drugs - yes they are all harmful. As are some uncontrolled drugs.
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