National Speed Limit ignorance
Discussion
rainmakerraw said:
Ron99 said:
I don't get this fixation on 'You must always drive at the speed limit when conditions allow'.
Well to be fair it's heavily emphasised when learning to drive. You will in fact fail your DVSA learner driver test if you're routinely travelling under the speed limit when road conditions allowed you to actually do the full speed permitted by the sign(s).Let's face it the limits have been/are being dumbed down to the lowest level of driver. All cars are capable of every limit and likewise so should all drivers. If a driver is not capable of regularly driving at any given speed limit then they should hand in their licence.
Obviously there are exceptions to this - mechanical problem with car, passenger with back pain to due to bad road surface, etc, etc.
For me it is all about education. A lot of people just think 45 or 40 is the NSA on windier roads, then when you try and pass on a straight they speed up, which shows they were just driving at their limit of what they felt comfy with. So they need educating on what their car is capable of, what it can do, how they can make progress easier for them and for everyone. I swear some people only feel comfortable with a queue of cars behind them and a clear road ahead.
And sight testing.
More and more, especially this time of year I feel people drive slowly purely because of two things, their lack of vision and the pathetically bright lights in modern cars that literally blind you oncoming.
We have all experienced it.
But their own sight is obvious, braking over every brow, before every corner, instantly going to full beam wherever possible, while ignoring the NSA signs, they regulate their speed for own lack of vision and inability to read signs.
You see it routinely.
And sight testing.
More and more, especially this time of year I feel people drive slowly purely because of two things, their lack of vision and the pathetically bright lights in modern cars that literally blind you oncoming.
We have all experienced it.
But their own sight is obvious, braking over every brow, before every corner, instantly going to full beam wherever possible, while ignoring the NSA signs, they regulate their speed for own lack of vision and inability to read signs.
You see it routinely.
TooMany2cvs said:
schrodinger said:
TooMany2cvs said:
So... you're driving along, approaching the edge of town.
It's a 30 limit.
Then there's a (/) sign, but the streetlights continue, and there are (/) repeaters.
You're saying there's no change of applicable limit?
Precisely. Until the end of the lights. It's a 30 limit.
Then there's a (/) sign, but the streetlights continue, and there are (/) repeaters.
You're saying there's no change of applicable limit?
(/) means 60 s/c, 70 d/c.
The repeaters remind you that applies, overriding the default 30 that would apply under lights without any repeaters.
Default lit is 30, but that is not NSL.
You are saying THIS is a 30 limit?
https://goo.gl/maps/AUKf7wKNzDz
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Saturday 27th January 09:30
schrodinger said:
Any system of street lights, less than 200 yards apart, means a 30mph limit. So to answer Your question, yes that does mean that if there are lights, then none, then lights then the national speed limit, signed by a white circle with a black diagonal, does go 30>60>60. And in case you are wondering “system” means three or more.
I find this thread quite frightening. schrodinger. Are you seriously trying to us that if you were driving down a single carriage way road at 60 mph and then, with no other speed limit signs, you would suddenly slow down to 30mph everytime there was more than 3 street lights. If so then your driving is DANGEROUS. Please, please hand your licence in before you kill someone.
I guess it also raises the question, how do get people onto a speed awareness course for driving too slow?
Mono-speeders 
40mph EVERYWHERE!!! Doesn't matter if its a 30, 40, 50 or NSL. Usually school-run types.....
And:
40mph EVERYWHERE!!! Doesn't matter if its a 30, 40, 50 or NSL. Usually school-run types.....And:
- Why do so many people drive at 50 in a NSL?
- Why are people afraid of driving in rain or darkness?
- Why do people brake whilst driving round corners, rather than before the corner?
- Why do people buy powerful cars & then accelerate as if driving an Austin 7?
This very topic crosses my mind almost every journey to and from work.
There are several stretches of single carriageway NSL and everyday, almost without exception, I get caught behind drivers resolutely doing 40.
On the twisty country lane sections I can abide by this; some bits are tight and sightlines can be poor, particularly over crests. But on the wide (could be dual carriageway really), straight section there is absolutely no excuse other than they don't know what NSL limits are. Bearing in mind that these are the same clowns that will plow on at 40 once inside a 30 zone.
And it's all the. bloody. time. It really does piss me off that so few people know what the limit actually is.
There are several stretches of single carriageway NSL and everyday, almost without exception, I get caught behind drivers resolutely doing 40.
On the twisty country lane sections I can abide by this; some bits are tight and sightlines can be poor, particularly over crests. But on the wide (could be dual carriageway really), straight section there is absolutely no excuse other than they don't know what NSL limits are. Bearing in mind that these are the same clowns that will plow on at 40 once inside a 30 zone.
And it's all the. bloody. time. It really does piss me off that so few people know what the limit actually is.
G13NVL said:
The roundabout ones are the worst, more so when driving a hgv. There’s a few Very clear well sighted roundabouts in 40 limit near me which you barely need to slow for and people come to complete stop then look to see if it’s clear drives me mad!
You realise the view's different up there?Plenty of roundabouts I know of with annoying road furniture/foliage on the approach that make it difficult to see clearly from 'normal' cars. HGVs can see over all that
nonsequitur said:
RogerDodger said:
Somerset - seemingly everyone does 40mph
I tailgate them. Flashing doesn't work so I just make my presence felt.
Tailgateing and flashing have been well and truly trashed on PH as unnecessary and aggressive driving. I tailgate them. Flashing doesn't work so I just make my presence felt.
Please stop it and be a patient driver.Take a deep breath count to ten and carry on with your life.I am calm. I drive the same stretch of road daily. My only way in and out. If I tailgate the slow coach they tend to speed up. Nothing else works and I don't want to be doing 40 in a 50 & 60 for 6 miles several times a day. It doesn't help we have a farm shop on the route which attracts all the blue rinse brigade.
Really, if you can't keep pace on a straight road you should not be on it.
I had to undertake one entering the motorway the other day or if have joined lane 1 at 40mph.
RogerDodger said:
I am calm. I drive the same stretch of road daily. My only way in and out. If I tailgate the slow coach they tend to speed up. Nothing else works and I don't want to be doing 40 in a 50 & 60 for 6 miles several times a day. It doesn't help we have a farm shop on the route which attracts all the blue rinse brigade.
The recommended procedure once tailgated is to slow down, not speed up. Why would anyone speed up?Hopefully one of your victims will slam their brakes on and take you off the road.
NGee said:
I find this thread quite frightening. schrodinger. Are you seriously trying to us that if you were driving down a single carriage way road at 60 mph and then, with no other speed limit signs, you would suddenly slow down to 30mph everytime there was more than 3 street lights.
...and then the moment there's a central reservation, he's up to 70, before back down to 30 for the lit s/c, and up to 60 when the lights stop...What makes me boggle most is that somebody can actually still hold this PoV after more than a minute or two's thought.
silentbrown said:
You realise the view's different up there?
Plenty of roundabouts I know of with annoying road furniture/foliage on the approach that make it difficult to see clearly from 'normal' cars. HGVs can see over all that
I drive a MX-5 and a school bus, i wish I have the view of the school bus, especially when i reversing in the MX-5Plenty of roundabouts I know of with annoying road furniture/foliage on the approach that make it difficult to see clearly from 'normal' cars. HGVs can see over all that
but all parties are equally at fault, i always found some car driver (especially who drive super compact) though bus/truck have the same acceleration (from a complete stop) as their small car
i found more ppl just keep doing full speed when bushes and trees block 90% of the right side entrance of a roundabout
if I get 1 pound everytime i have to slow down or stop because some careless driver do not slow down when approaching a roundabout with blocked view, I will be richer than Richard Branson by now
Edited by ringsound on Saturday 27th January 16:27
caiss4 said:
Dr Jekyll said:
schrodinger said:
I think the question is "if there is a road with a single carriageway, which also has street lights, but there is a 60 mph limit on it, how woudl this be signed?", right? If so, then there would be an initial 60 sign, with repeaters.
So to be perfectly clear, if a single carriageway with lights has repeaters consisting of a white disc with the black diagonal, you reckon it's a 30 limit?I'm trying to remember if I've ever seen 60 repeaters on a single carriageway, I've certainly very rarely seen any 60 sign on an SC.
schrodinger said:
rainmakerraw said:
schrodinger said:
1) dc overrides lights so would not apply to liv/Manc road
2) speed up and slow down : yup. Exactly. Makes more sense if you think of the lights as built up areas: you slow down for them as there may be pedestrians. The law uses lights as a proxy for this, which means it then catches areas where it makes no sense, but that’s a side effect of the law
This really is very simple. The whole country is covered by the national speed limit (which is, per the .gov page I referenced, 30/60/70 for cars). Except where there is a specific, signed limit.
You can tell which of 30/60/70 applies (as 2cv did above) easily:
- 2 carriageways? 70
- 1 carriageway and lights? 30
- anything else? 60
That fact that you don’t like it/ doesn’t make sense/ were taught something different is irrelevant.
If you disagree, I’m happy to be corrected if you can find a similar source to .gov
At this point I'm hoping you're trolling. The there authoritative government sources are abundantly clear, and when an ADI corrected you all you could respond with was a ridiculous ad hominem retort. Even the Ask The Police site is clear that where an NSL roundel is present it's 70mph for duals and 60mph for singles. No mention of slowing down for the bits with lamp posts. 2) speed up and slow down : yup. Exactly. Makes more sense if you think of the lights as built up areas: you slow down for them as there may be pedestrians. The law uses lights as a proxy for this, which means it then catches areas where it makes no sense, but that’s a side effect of the law
This really is very simple. The whole country is covered by the national speed limit (which is, per the .gov page I referenced, 30/60/70 for cars). Except where there is a specific, signed limit.
You can tell which of 30/60/70 applies (as 2cv did above) easily:
- 2 carriageways? 70
- 1 carriageway and lights? 30
- anything else? 60
That fact that you don’t like it/ doesn’t make sense/ were taught something different is irrelevant.
If you disagree, I’m happy to be corrected if you can find a similar source to .gov
https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q594.htm
I didn’t make an ad hominem retort: that fact that the person in question is an adi is not relevant. What is relevant is the underlying legislation. That, and the Highway Code interpretation of it, is the authoritative source. And it’s clear.
By the way I’m not arguing this because I like it. I would far prefer that the simpler 60/70 limit applies. There are roads near me ruined by this, but none of this changes the facts.
This means it should be assumed that, unless an order has been made and the road is signed to the contrary, a 30 mph speed limit applies where there are three or more lamps throwing light on the carriageway and placed not more than 183 metres apart.
If there are Diagram 671 signs it means, even if there is a system of street lights a s/c road is 60 and a d/c is 70. That is the whole point of them being there: to inform drivers that the road is not restricted to 30.
Example on a s/c here
https://goo.gl/maps/9Aeb3vspCD92
https://goo.gl/maps/s46Kdy77tyM2
The street lights continue all the way to the roundabout at the junction with the A27.
I have done 50 on that stretch while being followed by a fully marked police car.
If it was limited to 30 I'm 100% certain I would have been pulled over and ticketed.
NGee said:
schrodinger said:
Any system of street lights, less than 200 yards apart, means a 30mph limit. So to answer Your question, yes that does mean that if there are lights, then none, then lights then the national speed limit, signed by a white circle with a black diagonal, does go 30>60>60. And in case you are wondering “system” means three or more.
I find this thread quite frightening. schrodinger. Are you seriously trying to us that if you were driving down a single carriage way road at 60 mph and then, with no other speed limit signs, you would suddenly slow down to 30mph everytime there was more than 3 street lights. If so then your driving is DANGEROUS. Please, please hand your licence in before you kill someone.
His suggestion that lights + NSL sign means 30 is absolutely barking, though. Here's the definition of "national speed limit" from Traffic Signs regulations 2002. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regul...
the law sez said:
(2) In these Regulations “national speed limit” means any prohibition imposed on a road by the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977(2) or by regulation 3 of the Motorways (Speed Limits) Regulations 1974(3).
... and here's the relevant order it refers to. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1978/1548/artic...the law said:
The provisions of the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977, as varied by the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) (Variation) Order 1978, (which Order, as so varied, imposes during the period from 31st May 1977 to 30th November 1978 a general speed limit of 70 mph on dual carriageway roads (not being motorways), a general speed limit of 60 mph on single carriageway roads (not being motorways) and speed limits of 60 mph on certain specified dual carriageway roads and of 50 mph on certain specified single carriageway roads) are hereby continued indefinitely.
There's no such thing as a different "national speed limit" for built-up areas.silentbrown said:
NGee said:
schrodinger said:
Any system of street lights, less than 200 yards apart, means a 30mph limit. So to answer Your question, yes that does mean that if there are lights, then none, then lights then the national speed limit, signed by a white circle with a black diagonal, does go 30>60>60. And in case you are wondering “system” means three or more.
I find this thread quite frightening. schrodinger. Are you seriously trying to us that if you were driving down a single carriage way road at 60 mph and then, with no other speed limit signs, you would suddenly slow down to 30mph everytime there was more than 3 street lights. If so then your driving is DANGEROUS. Please, please hand your licence in before you kill someone.
His suggestion that lights + NSL sign means 30 is absolutely barking, though. Here's the definition of "national speed limit" from Traffic Signs regulations 2002. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regul...
the law sez said:
(2) In these Regulations “national speed limit” means any prohibition imposed on a road by the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977(2) or by regulation 3 of the Motorways (Speed Limits) Regulations 1974(3).
... and here's the relevant order it refers to. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1978/1548/artic...the law said:
The provisions of the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977, as varied by the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) (Variation) Order 1978, (which Order, as so varied, imposes during the period from 31st May 1977 to 30th November 1978 a general speed limit of 70 mph on dual carriageway roads (not being motorways), a general speed limit of 60 mph on single carriageway roads (not being motorways) and speed limits of 60 mph on certain specified dual carriageway roads and of 50 mph on certain specified single carriageway roads) are hereby continued indefinitely.
There's no such thing as a different "national speed limit" for built-up areas.That’s clear and authoritative, so it’s humble pie time for me.
Sorry guys: I was wrong on this one. I shall take delight in enjoying my new found speed.
I regularly see one asshole on the A303 that's obviously one of these 'super mpg' people.
I usually know that he is ahead of me when I see lorries trying to overtake a small red car.
Same bloke seen almost every day, doing about 48moh on a 70mph road. Yes it's rush hour and busy, but it's 70mph busy.
Yet this utter twunt is causing a rolling road block. Probably getting 60mpg from his crapbox car.
This should and probably is against the law, yet he thinks he's a careful driver. The lorry drivers must be going fekin nuts. What a hazard.
I usually know that he is ahead of me when I see lorries trying to overtake a small red car.
Same bloke seen almost every day, doing about 48moh on a 70mph road. Yes it's rush hour and busy, but it's 70mph busy.
Yet this utter twunt is causing a rolling road block. Probably getting 60mpg from his crapbox car.
This should and probably is against the law, yet he thinks he's a careful driver. The lorry drivers must be going fekin nuts. What a hazard.
schrodinger said:
Actually, the irony is that you do not understand the limits.
Any system of street lights, less than 200 yards apart, means a 30mph limit. So to answer Your question, yes that does mean that if there are lights, then none, then lights then the national speed limit, signed by a white circle with a black diagonal, does go 30>60>60. And in case you are wondering “system” means three or more.
So before you start arrogantly decrying others who “don’t know the limit”, perhaps you should check your facts.
Any system of street lights, less than 200 yards apart, means a 30mph limit. So to answer Your question, yes that does mean that if there are lights, then none, then lights then the national speed limit, signed by a white circle with a black diagonal, does go 30>60>60. And in case you are wondering “system” means three or more.
So before you start arrogantly decrying others who “don’t know the limit”, perhaps you should check your facts.
schrodinger said:
That’s clear and authoritative, so it’s humble pie time for me.
Sorry guys: I was wrong on this one. I shall take delight in enjoying my new found speed.
Would sir like custard with his humble pie? Sorry guys: I was wrong on this one. I shall take delight in enjoying my new found speed.
Good on you for (eventually!) holding up your hands, but it just goes to show how bloody minded and stubborn most motorists are - and you're one of the few who at least bother to join an enthusiasts' site. One down, about 50 million to go... Genuine question; have you never noticed the build up of raging drivers behind you wondering whether you're drunk?My wife's aunt and uncle (retirement age, or thereabouts) once castigated me in the strongest terms for doing 70mph on a NSL dual, because it's "not a motorway" and I was "being dangerous and was going to get a ticket". I even drove through a speed camera to prove my point, but they just decided it must be broken... I ended up buying them a Highway Code as part of their anniversary gift. It went down like a lead balloon but they got the point and apologised when they found their card bookmarking the speed limits page.
RogerDodger said:
Wasn't looking for yours or PH approval, I was staying what I do. You don't have to like it.
I am calm. I drive the same stretch of road daily. My only way in and out. If I tailgate the slow coach they tend to speed up. Nothing else works and I don't want to be doing 40 in a 50 & 60 for 6 miles several times a day. It doesn't help we have a farm shop on the route which attracts all the blue rinse brigade.
Really, if you can't keep pace on a straight road you should not be on it.
I had to undertake one entering the motorway the other day or if have joined lane 1 at 40mph.
Madness. You are calm, but admit to bullying other road users and write posts in such an aggressive manner? I am calm. I drive the same stretch of road daily. My only way in and out. If I tailgate the slow coach they tend to speed up. Nothing else works and I don't want to be doing 40 in a 50 & 60 for 6 miles several times a day. It doesn't help we have a farm shop on the route which attracts all the blue rinse brigade.
Really, if you can't keep pace on a straight road you should not be on it.
I had to undertake one entering the motorway the other day or if have joined lane 1 at 40mph.
40 in a 50 is reasonable if a little on the low side, 40 in a 60 yes slow but there is no defence to flash lights and tailgate you just pee people off. Try relaxing and or overtaking them when safe to do so.
chunder27 said:
For me it is all about education. A lot of people just think 45 or 40 is the NSA on windier roads, then when you try and pass on a straight they speed up, which shows they were just driving at their limit of what they felt comfy with. So they need educating on what their car is capable of, what it can do, how they can make progress easier for them and for everyone. I swear some people only feel comfortable with a queue of cars behind them and a clear road ahead.
And sight testing.
More and more, especially this time of year I feel people drive slowly purely because of two things, their lack of vision and the pathetically bright lights in modern cars that literally blind you oncoming.
We have all experienced it.
But their own sight is obvious, braking over every brow, before every corner, instantly going to full beam wherever possible, while ignoring the NSA signs, they regulate their speed for own lack of vision and inability to read signs.
You see it routinely.
Nothing wrong in using main beam when safe and suitable to do so you know....you can make far better progress on some roads. Also some cars with adaptive systems are fairly quick changing over (about 10 - 15 seconds for mine). And sight testing.
More and more, especially this time of year I feel people drive slowly purely because of two things, their lack of vision and the pathetically bright lights in modern cars that literally blind you oncoming.
We have all experienced it.
But their own sight is obvious, braking over every brow, before every corner, instantly going to full beam wherever possible, while ignoring the NSA signs, they regulate their speed for own lack of vision and inability to read signs.
You see it routinely.
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