What is the "best" 4 cylinder engine ever made?
Discussion
Gtxxjon said:
Ford twin cam 1600, back in the day, 100bhp stock!
Then the humble 'Redtop' two litre Vauxhall 160bhp, good for 300bhp with a Coscast head.
Erm thats a Lotus twin cam not a ford....its just a Ford 116E block, the rest is Lotus with input from both Costin and DuckworthThen the humble 'Redtop' two litre Vauxhall 160bhp, good for 300bhp with a Coscast head.
Edited by Gtxxjon on Thursday 2nd March 09:35
Also 300bhp on a Red Top is a race build (if n/a), theres plenty of other engines that also do that..., plus the later Red Tops without the coscast heads were porous and s
teEdited by What The Deuces on Thursday 2nd March 09:57
SimonTheSailor said:
If people are mentioning the A series then you might as well mention the Imp engine !!
Can scream to 9k revs+, powerful (for a 2 valve per cylinder engine), lightweight.
Used in many cars and won many motorsport championships.
I had a 998cc Hartwell Imp engine in my Stiletto. Back then it was very quick compared to everything else. This is a laugh! https://www.imps4ever.info/tech/tuners_builders/ha...Can scream to 9k revs+, powerful (for a 2 valve per cylinder engine), lightweight.
Used in many cars and won many motorsport championships.
Edited by jamespink on Thursday 2nd March 11:35
white_goodman said:
The humble 4-pot. A lot of us would prefer an I6/V6/V8 but many of us drive 4-pots because they tend to be cheap and provide the best compromise between performance and economy for our useage. However, maybe this is selling the 4-pot short, as it does have some advantages, namely relatively low weight and compact design.
For me, (although I'm sure someone else will be along shortly to tell me that someone else was doing it in the 70s), the Japanese are largely responsible for making 4 cylinder engines "sexier", as they made stuff like twin camshafts and 4 valves per cylinder more mainstream. Also stuff like VTEC helped people to take 4 cylinder engines more seriously in performance applications. Am I right in thinking that VAG were the only company to go 5 valves per cylinder with the prolific 1.8T unit? I wonder why this never really caught on and 16 valves have become the norm?
For me, the greatest 4-pot engines are the NA Type-R/S2000 engines which sound really good and rev like crazy and the Subaru Flat 4 engine when turbocharged. I've never driven one but I also hear that the Vauxhall "Red Top" engine as fitted to the mk2 Astra GTE 16v and various mk3 Cavaliers is also one of the greats.
So what in your opinion, is the best 4-cylinder engine ever made?
For me, (although I'm sure someone else will be along shortly to tell me that someone else was doing it in the 70s), the Japanese are largely responsible for making 4 cylinder engines "sexier", as they made stuff like twin camshafts and 4 valves per cylinder more mainstream. Also stuff like VTEC helped people to take 4 cylinder engines more seriously in performance applications. Am I right in thinking that VAG were the only company to go 5 valves per cylinder with the prolific 1.8T unit? I wonder why this never really caught on and 16 valves have become the norm?
For me, the greatest 4-pot engines are the NA Type-R/S2000 engines which sound really good and rev like crazy and the Subaru Flat 4 engine when turbocharged. I've never driven one but I also hear that the Vauxhall "Red Top" engine as fitted to the mk2 Astra GTE 16v and various mk3 Cavaliers is also one of the greats.
So what in your opinion, is the best 4-cylinder engine ever made?
Don Roque said:
In terms of fearsome performance the Nissan Skyline Super Silhouette comes to mind for getting 570hp out of a 2.1 four cylinder in the early 80's. Impressive now, never mind then.
An amazing car and engine. If we are talking race engines I nominate the Abarth 233 ATR 18S as used in the Lancia Delta S4. 1759cc engine that had a rev range up to 10000 rpm using turbo and super charging and eventually used 500+ bhp in competition. They allegedly achieved 1000 bhp from it on a test bench. In the real world I nominate the K20Z4.
white_goodman said:
The humble 4-pot. A lot of us would prefer an I6/V6/V8 but many of us drive 4-pots because they tend to be cheap and provide the best compromise between performance and economy for our useage. However, maybe this is selling the 4-pot short, as it does have some advantages, namely relatively low weight and compact design.
For me, (although I'm sure someone else will be along shortly to tell me that someone else was doing it in the 70s), the Japanese are largely responsible for making 4 cylinder engines "sexier", as they made stuff like twin camshafts and 4 valves per cylinder more mainstream. Also stuff like VTEC helped people to take 4 cylinder engines more seriously in performance applications. Am I right in thinking that VAG were the only company to go 5 valves per cylinder with the prolific 1.8T unit? I wonder why this never really caught on and 16 valves have become the norm?
For me, the greatest 4-pot engines are the NA Type-R/S2000 engines which sound really good and rev like crazy and the Subaru Flat 4 engine when turbocharged. I've never driven one but I also hear that the Vauxhall "Red Top" engine as fitted to the mk2 Astra GTE 16v and various mk3 Cavaliers is also one of the greats.
So what in your opinion, is the best 4-cylinder engine ever made?
All that you have mentioned in your post are very good engines. The "Red Top" from Vauxhall was only good if the head castings were cast by Cosworth, which were only produced by Cosworth in the first year of that engines production after that they were cast by another company in Italy and the porosityFor me, (although I'm sure someone else will be along shortly to tell me that someone else was doing it in the 70s), the Japanese are largely responsible for making 4 cylinder engines "sexier", as they made stuff like twin camshafts and 4 valves per cylinder more mainstream. Also stuff like VTEC helped people to take 4 cylinder engines more seriously in performance applications. Am I right in thinking that VAG were the only company to go 5 valves per cylinder with the prolific 1.8T unit? I wonder why this never really caught on and 16 valves have become the norm?
For me, the greatest 4-pot engines are the NA Type-R/S2000 engines which sound really good and rev like crazy and the Subaru Flat 4 engine when turbocharged. I've never driven one but I also hear that the Vauxhall "Red Top" engine as fitted to the mk2 Astra GTE 16v and various mk3 Cavaliers is also one of the greats.
So what in your opinion, is the best 4-cylinder engine ever made?
(air bubbles in the casting) was present in many cylinder heads which led to failures.
"Best" means everything from "one I like " to "one I've read about it " and (especially ) "the one in my car" . I will nominate the 2.9 litre straight four in the Ford Model T on the ground that it made travel available for the first time to so many and thus changed more people's lives for the better than any other engine. Not as good to listen to as a BMW M12/7 (as fitted to Seventies F2 cars) , nor as popular as many Japanese screamers nor as loved as the A Series but the engine in the car which helped changed the world for the better . For a time , anyway ....
What The Deuces said:
Gtxxjon said:
Ford twin cam 1600, back in the day, 100bhp stock!
Then the humble 'Redtop' two litre Vauxhall 160bhp, good for 300bhp with a Coscast head.
Erm thats a Lotus twin cam not a ford....its just a Ford 116E block, the rest is Lotus with input from both Costin and DuckworthThen the humble 'Redtop' two litre Vauxhall 160bhp, good for 300bhp with a Coscast head.
Edited by Gtxxjon on Thursday 2nd March 09:35
Also 300bhp on a Red Top is a race build (if n/a), theres plenty of other engines that also do that..., plus the later Red Tops without the coscast heads were porous and s
teEdited by What The Deuces on Thursday 2nd March 09:57
Niponeoff said:
What The Deuces said:
havoc said:
As above, not something you can service once a year and forget about though! 
(A neighbour, who I actually used to work with, has a Caterham with a Minster engine in it - he claims 240bhp from a 1.6, and whilst I think he's embellishing a little, it is a rather nice piece of kit...from my perspective, anything which can see the far side of 8,000rpm is worthy of respect)
240bhp from an n\a 1.6 must be revving to 10grand pretty much, he's either talking s(A neighbour, who I actually used to work with, has a Caterham with a Minster engine in it - he claims 240bhp from a 1.6, and whilst I think he's embellishing a little, it is a rather nice piece of kit...from my perspective, anything which can see the far side of 8,000rpm is worthy of respect)
t or he has a load of cash sunk into it.over 10k rpm, not sure what the rebuild interval was though
carlo996 said:
What The Deuces said:
Gtxxjon said:
Ford twin cam 1600, back in the day, 100bhp stock!
Then the humble 'Redtop' two litre Vauxhall 160bhp, good for 300bhp with a Coscast head.
Erm thats a Lotus twin cam not a ford....its just a Ford 116E block, the rest is Lotus with input from both Costin and DuckworthThen the humble 'Redtop' two litre Vauxhall 160bhp, good for 300bhp with a Coscast head.
Edited by Gtxxjon on Thursday 2nd March 09:35
Also 300bhp on a Red Top is a race build (if n/a), theres plenty of other engines that also do that..., plus the later Red Tops without the coscast heads were porous and s
teEdited by What The Deuces on Thursday 2nd March 09:57
At least I know what engine I’m looking at though
For me the Hillman Imp engine is the favourite, standard you could tweak it to run to 7500 rpm, with a lightened flywheel it weight 68 kg’s and it could quite easily reach 118 bhp in race trim at 998cc capacity. Sounded great, wedge shaped combustion chamber was brilliant for good torque as well.
Rutland lad said:
I owned from new a Fiat 127 Sport in 1979.
1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
Rutland lad said:
I owned from new a Fiat 128 Sport in 1979.
1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
My Mum had a 127 with the same 1050cc engine, probably in a lower state of tune though. She hated the car for some reason, but the engine was a peach. Real zinger and a nice rorty exhaust. 1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
Rutland lad said:
I owned from new a Fiat 128 Sport in 1979.
1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
In the 1990s a friend, a Mechanic, of a friend had one of those engines on an engine stand in his house.1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
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