Next Conservative party leader.
Discussion
smn159 said:
A more appropriate link is: https://blog.aurynn.com/2015/12/16-contempt-cultur...If the other side has ideas that you find difficult to counter, call them names.
It is incredible to think the disastrous May might actually be the best the Tories have to offer. The traditional grandees are to old, the young guns may all prove to divisive and have hardly covered themselves in glory through this process and anyone else is not known and would be percieved as a nonentity by Joe and Jemima public. I think it's a good thing for labour that Ruth Davidson isn't available/ruled herself out as with someone like her in charge the Tories would look like a forward thinking central right party with a bright future.
biggbn said:
It is incredible to think the disastrous May might actually be the best the Tories have to offer. The traditional grandees are to old, the young guns may all prove to divisive and have hardly covered themselves in glory through this process and anyone else is not known and would be percieved as a nonentity by Joe and Jemima public. I think it's a good thing for labour that Ruth Davidson isn't available/ruled herself out as with someone like her in charge the Tories would look like a forward thinking central right party with a bright future.
There are some others (Gavin Williamson?) but they are probably too firmly parked in the "remain" faction to be considered even as moderates.It's a shame in some ways that they only consider from the lower house. Technically the PM doesn't have to be an MP, it is just convention - and we have broken enough of those recently.
biggbn said:
It is incredible to think the disastrous May might actually be the best the Tories have to offer.
Incredible perhaps, but also wrong. As much as you can pick holes in any candidate and explain why particular groups wouldn't vote for them, if oyu do the same for May she is head and shoulders above on that score.Any of the options mooted would be better than May.
paulrockliffe said:
Incredible perhaps, but also wrong. As much as you can pick holes in any candidate and explain why particular groups wouldn't vote for them, if oyu do the same for May she is head and shoulders above on that score.
Any of the options mooted would be better than May.
I cannot, and will not accept Johnson or Rees mogg as better than May, for all her ineptitude she appears to have some morals whereas those two have proven themselves to be opportunistic scavengers trying to pick a profit from the corpse of the party, Johnson has made a career out of it, Rees mogg is only now showing his true colors with more clarity. Raab, Davis, OK, they may be better than May I will grant you that. Any of the options mooted would be better than May.
PurpleTurtle said:
Quite - it's their mess, they need to sort it out.
I would add "and have also held high Ministerial office" to that requirement. Not some backbench nobody.
Jacob Rees-Mogg is a rabble-rousing backbench MP who has never held any such office, a political lightweight, a monkey throwing his own s
t in the zoo. It's not going to be him, fortunately. He'd have to give up his Hedge Fund directorship for a start.
Or should it be him? In a parallel world I would love to see him ponce into Brussells in his metaphorical top hat to try to negotiate the way ahead for getting May's deal to stick, only to have his arse handed to him on a plate publicly on a daily basis.
I would add "and have also held high Ministerial office" to that requirement. Not some backbench nobody.
Jacob Rees-Mogg is a rabble-rousing backbench MP who has never held any such office, a political lightweight, a monkey throwing his own s
t in the zoo. It's not going to be him, fortunately. He'd have to give up his Hedge Fund directorship for a start. Or should it be him? In a parallel world I would love to see him ponce into Brussells in his metaphorical top hat to try to negotiate the way ahead for getting May's deal to stick, only to have his arse handed to him on a plate publicly on a daily basis.
Top post, couldn't agree more, he won't of course because he knows his limitations and there's no way he'd put his neck on the line, plastic aristocrat.
citizensm1th said:
I think it will be hunt
He's got the poisoned chalice of having run the Dept of Health (I don't know anyone who has a good word to say about him in that regard, noting that it's generally a thankless task), but also comes across as incredibly aloof. Tory MPs and their members might elect him, but the electorate at large thinks he's a massive Jeremy Hunt.
He's also a Remainer who has swapped sides.
Hunt backed “Remain” during the 2016 referendum campaign. However, Hunt told LBC Radio in October 2017 he had changed his mind on the issue, in part due to what he said was disappointing “arrogance” in the EU’s behaviour during negotiations.
I'm tired of people trotting out this argument over the supposed intrasigence of the EU.
WTF did they expect them to do, bend over backwards to accomodate us?
It's a Union for crying out loud - the clue is in the name - by definition they stick together to protect their own.
I can understand people wanting to leave the EU
I can understand people wanting to remain in the EU
I cannot understand people who did not get in 2016 that we would get f
king hardballed by the EU for leaving. Run the country? I wouldn't trust him to run a bath.
Edited by PurpleTurtle on Thursday 28th March 15:11
I guess it depends - is this a caretaker leader or a half parliament + next parliament candidate.
Looking at it from the Europe perspective - who would they fear the most as a leader?
Probably Gove or Boris.
Then - who could the party rally behind? Neither of the above. Problem is I don't think either would be that good for the non-Europe aspects of the UK.
Maybe they need a compromise leader and then make the Chancellor (say, Gove) the lead for European negotiations.
Looking at it from the Europe perspective - who would they fear the most as a leader?
Probably Gove or Boris.
Then - who could the party rally behind? Neither of the above. Problem is I don't think either would be that good for the non-Europe aspects of the UK.
Maybe they need a compromise leader and then make the Chancellor (say, Gove) the lead for European negotiations.
Vaud said:
Looking at it from the Europe perspective - who would they fear the most as a leader?
Probably Gove or Boris
Is it Boris's shrewd negotiating prowess and eye for a deal that the EU would fear?Probably Gove or Boris
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/water-...
They must be quaking already
smn159 said:
Is it Boris's shrewd negotiating prowess and eye for a deal that the EU would fear?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/water-...
They must be quaking already
True. He has many, many flaws, but he does possess a big intellect and also speaks French. Also capable of misdirection, cunning and a dead cat strategy when needed. Can also work the media.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/water-...
They must be quaking already
I'm not advocating him, I'm just hypothesising as to who Europe would not want to engage with.
Vaud said:
smn159 said:
Is it Boris's shrewd negotiating prowess and eye for a deal that the EU would fear?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/water-...
They must be quaking already
True. He has many, many flaws, but he does possess a big intellect and also speaks French. Also capable of misdirection, cunning and a dead cat strategy when needed. Can also work the media.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/19/water-...
They must be quaking already
I'm not advocating him, I'm just hypothesising as to who Europe would not want to engage with.
I like Rachel though.
Here's how I see it (this is my personal opinion, not what I think others are thinking).
Boris Johnson - nope. On the one hand he is good at media appearances. On the other hand he seems to be disloyal, and it seems that he can't be trusted both in his political and personal lives. Above all, I feel that he showed himself to be a coward. He should have stayed in the cabinet and driven Brexit through, playing an active part in it. Instead, he quit as soon as the going got tough.
David Davis - nope. Comes across as lazy. Seemed to handle Brexit negotiations very badly, and quit when the going got tough (see above). Would be a good deputy PM.
Jacob Rees-Mogg - nope. Absolutely no chance. Has never run anything. His behaviour during Brexit has been appalling. An armchair general who was seemingly happy to see his own side self-destruct. I suspect that his abortive attempt to remove Theresa May would rule him out even if he decided to run.
Jeremy Hunt - nope. He didn't cover himself in glory with the junior doctors strike. Beyond that, he seems like a non-entity. I could not pick him out of a line-up. I do not see any evidence of achievement and I do not know his vision, principles etc. I suspect he hasn't got any.
Amber Rudd - nope. Another unlikeable non-entity.
Michael Gove - possibly. Clearly smart, seems to work hard, and has done some radical things (free schools, environmental policy). I also like the fact that he has a normal background; he was adopted as a kid and got into Oxford on his own merits. People can relate to that. A strong contender. But I feel that to the public at large, he is not a likeable character, and he is unlikely to convince swing voters (who are the ones that matter, not the ones that will vote Tory anyway). Having said that, I would be happy with him.
Sajid Javid - yes. To me, he embodies what Britain is all about. The son of a Pakistani immigrant who was a bus driver in the Midlands and who worked hard to give his kid the best start in life. Has succeeded by working hard rather than relying on family, has real world experience (worked in banking), communicates well, comes across as a consensus seeker rather than a dogmatist, seems to have principles (although unproven). Not tainted by Brexit, and would be pragmatic in upcoming Brexit negotiations. People can relate to him. I met him once and he came across as a normal person, which in a field of Tory party leadership candidates is something of a rarity. I worry that he might be a bit of a lightweight, but he seems to have done OK as Home Secretary.
I would go for Sajid Javid.
And I know I will get flamed for this, but I would take a secret delight in the Tory party being the first major political party to have a leader, and prime minister, who is BAME. This is alongside the 2 woman leaders they have had so far.
Boris Johnson - nope. On the one hand he is good at media appearances. On the other hand he seems to be disloyal, and it seems that he can't be trusted both in his political and personal lives. Above all, I feel that he showed himself to be a coward. He should have stayed in the cabinet and driven Brexit through, playing an active part in it. Instead, he quit as soon as the going got tough.
David Davis - nope. Comes across as lazy. Seemed to handle Brexit negotiations very badly, and quit when the going got tough (see above). Would be a good deputy PM.
Jacob Rees-Mogg - nope. Absolutely no chance. Has never run anything. His behaviour during Brexit has been appalling. An armchair general who was seemingly happy to see his own side self-destruct. I suspect that his abortive attempt to remove Theresa May would rule him out even if he decided to run.
Jeremy Hunt - nope. He didn't cover himself in glory with the junior doctors strike. Beyond that, he seems like a non-entity. I could not pick him out of a line-up. I do not see any evidence of achievement and I do not know his vision, principles etc. I suspect he hasn't got any.
Amber Rudd - nope. Another unlikeable non-entity.
Michael Gove - possibly. Clearly smart, seems to work hard, and has done some radical things (free schools, environmental policy). I also like the fact that he has a normal background; he was adopted as a kid and got into Oxford on his own merits. People can relate to that. A strong contender. But I feel that to the public at large, he is not a likeable character, and he is unlikely to convince swing voters (who are the ones that matter, not the ones that will vote Tory anyway). Having said that, I would be happy with him.
Sajid Javid - yes. To me, he embodies what Britain is all about. The son of a Pakistani immigrant who was a bus driver in the Midlands and who worked hard to give his kid the best start in life. Has succeeded by working hard rather than relying on family, has real world experience (worked in banking), communicates well, comes across as a consensus seeker rather than a dogmatist, seems to have principles (although unproven). Not tainted by Brexit, and would be pragmatic in upcoming Brexit negotiations. People can relate to him. I met him once and he came across as a normal person, which in a field of Tory party leadership candidates is something of a rarity. I worry that he might be a bit of a lightweight, but he seems to have done OK as Home Secretary.
I would go for Sajid Javid.
And I know I will get flamed for this, but I would take a secret delight in the Tory party being the first major political party to have a leader, and prime minister, who is BAME. This is alongside the 2 woman leaders they have had so far.
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