Vauxhall: what went wrong?
Discussion
I've driven (and owned one) many vauxhalls since passing my test.
I can't comment on the vxr range, classic or rwd cars but by and large they have been utter rubbish.
Poor engines, crappy interiors and very dull to drive, I struggle to see any redeeming feature apart from the low price.
Even the new astra was crap.
Ford has them licked in every area especially driving dynamics.
I can't comment on the vxr range, classic or rwd cars but by and large they have been utter rubbish.
Poor engines, crappy interiors and very dull to drive, I struggle to see any redeeming feature apart from the low price.
Even the new astra was crap.
Ford has them licked in every area especially driving dynamics.
Back in the 80s, a number of Vauxhalls really stood out, you noticed them (Nova SR, GTE, Astra GTE, Cav SRI, Manta GT/E, Senator Police cars, Lotus Carlton).
These days the vast majority of Vauxhalls are just invisible and blend into the background. They may have maintained their market share but the cars you notice are the more expensive German/Prestige/Sports cars. Most people are on many measures wealthier than back then and have developed a taste for Audis, BMWs even Porsches... Anything less is just a white good in 2014.
These days the vast majority of Vauxhalls are just invisible and blend into the background. They may have maintained their market share but the cars you notice are the more expensive German/Prestige/Sports cars. Most people are on many measures wealthier than back then and have developed a taste for Audis, BMWs even Porsches... Anything less is just a white good in 2014.
Not sure they were ever brilliant.
The Nova SR was the car we all wanted when we passed our test, and the GTE when we could afford insurance. The problem was compared to Daihatsu Charade Gtti and Suzuki Swift Gti at the time for the same money or less, they were 2nd rate not only in terms of performance, but the quality of the interior. You had to spend quite a bit of !money on a Nova GTE to make it as fast as these 2, as my friend took his brand new GTE to Courtney for a gas flow head, and it shill couldn't touch the little Gtti I had or the Polo G40 another mate had.
The Nova SR was the car we all wanted when we passed our test, and the GTE when we could afford insurance. The problem was compared to Daihatsu Charade Gtti and Suzuki Swift Gti at the time for the same money or less, they were 2nd rate not only in terms of performance, but the quality of the interior. You had to spend quite a bit of !money on a Nova GTE to make it as fast as these 2, as my friend took his brand new GTE to Courtney for a gas flow head, and it shill couldn't touch the little Gtti I had or the Polo G40 another mate had.
Not sure they were ever brilliant.
The Nova SR was the car we all wanted when we passed our test, and the GTE when we could afford insurance. The problem was compared to Daihatsu Charade Gtti and Suzuki Swift Gti at the time for the same money or less, they were 2nd rate not only in terms of performance, but the quality of the interior. You had to spend quite a bit of !money on a Nova GTE to make it as fast as these 2, as my friend took his brand new GTE to Courtney for a gas flow head, and it shill couldn't touch the little Gtti I had or the Polo G40 another mate had.
The Nova SR was the car we all wanted when we passed our test, and the GTE when we could afford insurance. The problem was compared to Daihatsu Charade Gtti and Suzuki Swift Gti at the time for the same money or less, they were 2nd rate not only in terms of performance, but the quality of the interior. You had to spend quite a bit of !money on a Nova GTE to make it as fast as these 2, as my friend took his brand new GTE to Courtney for a gas flow head, and it shill couldn't touch the little Gtti I had or the Polo G40 another mate had.
white_goodman said:
Just watched the 1st episode of the latest series of Top Gear (I'm a bit behind) and although the Golf GTi (at the start at least) was by far the nicest of the three cars, I feel strangely nostalgic for a Nova SRi/GSi. Are there actually any tidy ones of these left?
(
I've got a set of genuine 8 spoke 14 inch GSI alloys in my shed. If the owner of that car, would like them, I'll happily GIVE them to him, as long as he promises to get rid of the laguna front spoiler 'splitter' (
The only issue is the perception of the brand.
I've had people tell me how terrible Vauxhalls are, discussing it a bit further we get back to the early Vectras. Yes they were s
te when they came out, made all the worse by the fact that the cavalier was a very good car. But, we're talking 20 years ago! get over it!
I even had one guy tell me how rubbish Vauxhalls are, which got attributed to a relatives cavalier, a mk1 cavalier from the late 70s! What the feck that has to do with anything nowadays I don't know.
The attitude prevails, every thread about a Vauxhall on PH you'll get unfounded derogatory remarks and they haven't even clapped eyes on the car, let alone sat in or driven one. One of our dear members was criticising build quality and interiors on another thread, yet drives a late 90s Peugeot 106, hardly the shining light of build quality or interior style itself..
Looked at objectively the cars are no worse than their peers - Fords, Volkswagens, the French stuff etc. Maybe even the "premium" brands in some cases. They might not be head and shoulders above anything else but certainly they aren't the complete heaps that some would have you believe.
Changing the badge to Opel is pointless.. just imagine the Top Gear sofa and Clarkson saying "Big news! Vauxhall are no more! they're going to rebrand themselves as Opel! So thats completely pointless then!". Cynics will always be cynics.
The badge on the front doesn't need to change, people's preconceptions do.
The question is how does that happen ? well, the cars are ever improving and reaching in to new markets, like the cascada and the adam, thus giving buyers an option they didn't have before. Ok they might not be a massive success on this iteration - no surprise, the car market is very crowded nowadays. The astra bi-turbo fits in here too.
For the VXR stuff they started a community some years ago and there are regular events for owners, some (specifically track days) are available to all, it lets people get to see the cars and evaluate what they think. I've heard many comments at these events where people have been pleasantly surprised by the cars.
Coverage in the press too - Evo have always been fairly complimentary about the cars they've had. Top Gear, whilst typically play dirty tricks and/or very negative about the cars are still a viewing platform.
Biggest of all is to have customers that are happy and start creating interest in their friends/family.
The cars aren't perfect and will have problems/faults, but thats no different to any other brand. The car market has closed up nowadays, there are few real stinkers out there - the great unwashed just need to view all brands objectively rather than subjectively (with their preconceptions).
I've had people tell me how terrible Vauxhalls are, discussing it a bit further we get back to the early Vectras. Yes they were s
te when they came out, made all the worse by the fact that the cavalier was a very good car. But, we're talking 20 years ago! get over it!I even had one guy tell me how rubbish Vauxhalls are, which got attributed to a relatives cavalier, a mk1 cavalier from the late 70s! What the feck that has to do with anything nowadays I don't know.
The attitude prevails, every thread about a Vauxhall on PH you'll get unfounded derogatory remarks and they haven't even clapped eyes on the car, let alone sat in or driven one. One of our dear members was criticising build quality and interiors on another thread, yet drives a late 90s Peugeot 106, hardly the shining light of build quality or interior style itself..
Looked at objectively the cars are no worse than their peers - Fords, Volkswagens, the French stuff etc. Maybe even the "premium" brands in some cases. They might not be head and shoulders above anything else but certainly they aren't the complete heaps that some would have you believe.
Changing the badge to Opel is pointless.. just imagine the Top Gear sofa and Clarkson saying "Big news! Vauxhall are no more! they're going to rebrand themselves as Opel! So thats completely pointless then!". Cynics will always be cynics.
The badge on the front doesn't need to change, people's preconceptions do.
The question is how does that happen ? well, the cars are ever improving and reaching in to new markets, like the cascada and the adam, thus giving buyers an option they didn't have before. Ok they might not be a massive success on this iteration - no surprise, the car market is very crowded nowadays. The astra bi-turbo fits in here too.
For the VXR stuff they started a community some years ago and there are regular events for owners, some (specifically track days) are available to all, it lets people get to see the cars and evaluate what they think. I've heard many comments at these events where people have been pleasantly surprised by the cars.
Coverage in the press too - Evo have always been fairly complimentary about the cars they've had. Top Gear, whilst typically play dirty tricks and/or very negative about the cars are still a viewing platform.
Biggest of all is to have customers that are happy and start creating interest in their friends/family.
The cars aren't perfect and will have problems/faults, but thats no different to any other brand. The car market has closed up nowadays, there are few real stinkers out there - the great unwashed just need to view all brands objectively rather than subjectively (with their preconceptions).
Studio117 said:
I've driven (and owned one) many vauxhalls since passing my test.
I can't comment on the vxr range, classic or rwd cars but by and large they have been utter rubbish.
Poor engines, crappy interiors and very dull to drive, I struggle to see any redeeming feature apart from the low price.
Even the new astra was crap.
Ford has them licked in every area especially driving dynamics.
I agree with the post above particularly the line "Ford has them licked in every area especially driving dynamics". I have nothing against Vauxhall's except that all the ones I have driven have, as Sudio117 suggested above, "Poor engines, crappy interiors and very dull to drive, I struggle to see any redeeming feature apart from the low price." I can't comment on the vxr range, classic or rwd cars but by and large they have been utter rubbish.
Poor engines, crappy interiors and very dull to drive, I struggle to see any redeeming feature apart from the low price.
Even the new astra was crap.
Ford has them licked in every area especially driving dynamics.
Just not a car I have ever enjoyed driving personally nor one therefore that I would consider owning. I do think they have lost their way as a brand. I also think there are currently too many car manufacturers and therefore competition is increasing overall. Vauxhall seem to me to be gradually but irresistibly, losing out.
XJ Flyer said:
Why is it that the old school RWD Opels,which is what the Senator and Carlton were,seem to be considered as being Vauxhalls but the VXR8 isn't.The fact is Vauxhall has just been a badge put on different cars built around Europe since around the days of cars like the old Vivas,Victors and Ventoras etc.Which just leaves the question of the product range since.The Carlton and Senator were reasonable enough cars in their day then added to by the Lotus Carlton.Then the VXR8 took over where that left off.If there has been a problem it's that there hasn't been a range of RWD products to take over from the previous RWD Opel range.
However having said that I've been driving the Zafira in 1.8 manual form as a daily driver for some years now and on a like with like comparison with it's Ford competition it's at least as good,if not better,car for it's purpose.Which just leaves the question what has Ford got that can compete with the VXR8.Answer nothing.While at best the Granada was never a threat to the Senator or Carlton as the police seem to have agreed.
Some good points made. I admit that the car market has changed since the early 90s and no-one is going to buy a big Ford/Vauxhall when they can have a BMW/Audi/Mercedes for similar money. However, Ford were making pretty bad cars in the early 90s but have evolved, concentrated on their smaller cars and generally now make cars that look good, drive well and are better quality (although personally, I'm still not a fan of their plastics). This has come at price though, as they're not as cheap as they used to be.However having said that I've been driving the Zafira in 1.8 manual form as a daily driver for some years now and on a like with like comparison with it's Ford competition it's at least as good,if not better,car for it's purpose.Which just leaves the question what has Ford got that can compete with the VXR8.Answer nothing.While at best the Granada was never a threat to the Senator or Carlton as the police seem to have agreed.
However, they have maintained their number one spot in the UK. Yes, Vauxhall may still be hanging on in the number 2 spot but my point was it appeared at one time that they had what it takes to knock Ford off the number 1 spot (wasn't the Cavalier the top seller for several years). I'm not suggesting that their cars have got worse, they're just average though and haven't made the same jump that Ford have. Yes, Peugeot, Citroen, Renault and Fiat are also struggling (don't know where Fiat would be without the 500).
Yes, Ford have no equivalent to the VXR8 but it's only one model, not a range of models and is only good value compared to the Germans if you want V8 power. Besides, it's really a Holden, which is Australian. I'm sure Ford could import a large RWD saloon from Australia (Falcon) if it wanted to but it wouldn't sell in significant numbers. They sell a large saloon (Taurus) in North America but not sure if it's RWD.
I don't think changing the name to Opel would help, does it really have any more cachet than Vauxhall. Yes, they did used to have Saab as a premium brand, just as Ford had Volvo and Jaguar, so perhaps this is why they didn't bother.
What's the answer. Well in North America, they have Buick and Cadillac as their premium brands. Buick may not have much value as a brand to European customers but they do make some nice cars including some SUVs (which Vauxhall lacks) and the Insignia is the Buick Regal, albeit a bit more upmarket (still wouldn't spend the equivalent of 30000 pounds on an Insignia though)! GM tried to market Cadillac in Europe before without much success but the product has improved. They have a nice range of RWD and AWD saloons with better quality than before and I think would be more than a match for BMW/Audi/Mercedes. The only thing they lack is a decent diesel engine to put in them!
Sorry, I can't agree on the mk5 Escort being better than the mk3 Astra. I test drove a mk5 facelift Escort of similar age and mileage before I bought my Astra. It was a 1.8 but no quicker than my 1.4, noisy, gearbox like a bag of spanners, falling apart (seat frame poking through the cloth etc). Granted, by the time we got to the mk6 Escort, it may have been better than the mk3 Astra but then we were on the mk4 Astra, which was better again, albeit dreary to look at!
I also agree that the Zafira is significantly smaller than the Galaxy, which wasn't a bad car (it just stayed in production for too long). Would have an S-MAX over a Zafira any day of the week!
hondafanatic said:
Your mate didn't write off said Nova on the M6 by forton/Lancaster junction did he?
No, different red Nova. The body count was obviously quite high! I took out another red Nova on a roundabout in Bury St Edmunds with my mk3 Astra (it pulled out in front of me). I only needed a new front wing on the Astra, I don't think the Nova made it back onto the road!I don't even know what cars Vauxhall (Opel) makes at the moment.
Except some variant of the Corsa and Astra, inevitably. Automotive custard and mash potato. And the Lotus derivative, if it is still in production.
That must be telling.
And yes, Vauxhall as a name is so blue rinse and comfy slippers.
Opel all the way, and some of the (undeserved) "German" hype may rub off (or on).
Except some variant of the Corsa and Astra, inevitably. Automotive custard and mash potato. And the Lotus derivative, if it is still in production.
That must be telling.
And yes, Vauxhall as a name is so blue rinse and comfy slippers.
Opel all the way, and some of the (undeserved) "German" hype may rub off (or on).
I spent the second half of last year working in Glasgow. I hired a car every week for quite a few months. In that time I had the following:
VW Polo
VW Golf Mk 7
VW Golf Estate
Kia Rio
Ford Focus Ecoboost
Vauxhall Astra Turbo
Vauxhall Astra CDTi
Vauxhall Astra Estate CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia Estate CDTi
Not one of those stood out better than the other overall. The Golf drove well but was bland inside. The Polo was just dire, so plasticky, trim falling apart, slow. The Focus was slow and noisy. The Kia was OK. The best of all of these were the Vauxhalls, particularly the diesels, they were quick, economic and well spec'd compared to the rest.
Personally I don't think they are really any worse than the other brands.
However, overall the Golf impressed me the most for driveability, but once I started to spec one up, man did the price rocket, and it wasn't that much better than the VX's.
Stef
VW Polo
VW Golf Mk 7
VW Golf Estate
Kia Rio
Ford Focus Ecoboost
Vauxhall Astra Turbo
Vauxhall Astra CDTi
Vauxhall Astra Estate CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia Estate CDTi
Not one of those stood out better than the other overall. The Golf drove well but was bland inside. The Polo was just dire, so plasticky, trim falling apart, slow. The Focus was slow and noisy. The Kia was OK. The best of all of these were the Vauxhalls, particularly the diesels, they were quick, economic and well spec'd compared to the rest.
Personally I don't think they are really any worse than the other brands.
However, overall the Golf impressed me the most for driveability, but once I started to spec one up, man did the price rocket, and it wasn't that much better than the VX's.
Stef
StefanVXR8 said:
I spent the second half of last year working in Glasgow. I hired a car every week for quite a few months. In that time I had the following:
VW Polo
VW Golf Mk 7
VW Golf Estate
Kia Rio
Ford Focus Ecoboost
Vauxhall Astra Turbo
Vauxhall Astra CDTi
Vauxhall Astra Estate CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia Estate CDTi
Not one of those stood out better than the other overall.
Seriously?VW Polo
VW Golf Mk 7
VW Golf Estate
Kia Rio
Ford Focus Ecoboost
Vauxhall Astra Turbo
Vauxhall Astra CDTi
Vauxhall Astra Estate CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia Estate CDTi
Not one of those stood out better than the other overall.
John145 said:
StefanVXR8 said:
I spent the second half of last year working in Glasgow. I hired a car every week for quite a few months. In that time I had the following:
VW Polo
VW Golf Mk 7
VW Golf Estate
Kia Rio
Ford Focus Ecoboost
Vauxhall Astra Turbo
Vauxhall Astra CDTi
Vauxhall Astra Estate CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia Estate CDTi
Not one of those stood out better than the other overall.
Seriously?VW Polo
VW Golf Mk 7
VW Golf Estate
Kia Rio
Ford Focus Ecoboost
Vauxhall Astra Turbo
Vauxhall Astra CDTi
Vauxhall Astra Estate CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia CDTi
Vauxhall Insignia Estate CDTi
Not one of those stood out better than the other overall.
My GF ŵas a manager for a spaceship rent a car company, so had almost every model on sale home for the weekend.
I found the Astra and Insignia better cars than the equivalent Mondeo and Focus and bloody miles ahead of SEAT.
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