Marriage - protecting pre-marital assets
Discussion
OP - having just gone through an expensive divorce, I can tell you that the courts interpret the law in shades of grey and it is very difficult to protect your assets as the financially stronger party especially if your wife is not working at the time of divorce and you have kids.
It starts at 50/50 and if that's not sufficient to provide, then the financially weaker party's 'needs' trump 50/50, I know someone that had to hand over 80%.
If you really want to protect your assets pay the £650 and get some proper advice.
As an example, when I met my now ex wife I had a business that turned over in excess of £20m and made around £1m / year. I tried to get that viewed by the court as a non marital asset. Unfortunately it didn't fly despite my ex wife never having anything to do with the business and having never contributed to it. I had a significant amount of paper money that was used in calculating the 50/50 but because it was illiquid I ended up having to remortgage my house (bought in my sole name before we married) to pay her out. In addition to this, she still got a % of my business.
The worst bit for me was my pension which you don't mention, I started it when I was18 and had to hand over several hundred thousand. Because of the laws on what you are allowed to pay in, I can never legally replace that money before I retire (even if I could afford to which is debatable based on the £5k / month I have to pay her)
Having bought her a house, a car and the monthly money I give her, she has a higher disposable monthly income than me!
I'm sure you're not going into the marriage thinking of failure, I know I didn't, but it does happen and if you've worked hard for your assets I suggest you do try to protect them - pay for professional legal advice.
It starts at 50/50 and if that's not sufficient to provide, then the financially weaker party's 'needs' trump 50/50, I know someone that had to hand over 80%.
If you really want to protect your assets pay the £650 and get some proper advice.
As an example, when I met my now ex wife I had a business that turned over in excess of £20m and made around £1m / year. I tried to get that viewed by the court as a non marital asset. Unfortunately it didn't fly despite my ex wife never having anything to do with the business and having never contributed to it. I had a significant amount of paper money that was used in calculating the 50/50 but because it was illiquid I ended up having to remortgage my house (bought in my sole name before we married) to pay her out. In addition to this, she still got a % of my business.
The worst bit for me was my pension which you don't mention, I started it when I was18 and had to hand over several hundred thousand. Because of the laws on what you are allowed to pay in, I can never legally replace that money before I retire (even if I could afford to which is debatable based on the £5k / month I have to pay her)
Having bought her a house, a car and the monthly money I give her, she has a higher disposable monthly income than me!
I'm sure you're not going into the marriage thinking of failure, I know I didn't, but it does happen and if you've worked hard for your assets I suggest you do try to protect them - pay for professional legal advice.
This is why you have to be 100% comfortable that the person you are marrying is not going to take the money and run.
If you are not, then don't get married and certainly don't have kids.
You could literally end up on your @rse with virtually nothing esp if you have kids with her.
Many would say this is the right thing, and I agree. However there are women out there who know how to work the law and they will use it for their own gain very cold and ruthless - personally I think if any intent could be proved it should be a criminal offence. I have personally seen women who seek out high net worth individuals and then get pregnant and ker-ching….
If you are not, then don't get married and certainly don't have kids.
You could literally end up on your @rse with virtually nothing esp if you have kids with her.
Many would say this is the right thing, and I agree. However there are women out there who know how to work the law and they will use it for their own gain very cold and ruthless - personally I think if any intent could be proved it should be a criminal offence. I have personally seen women who seek out high net worth individuals and then get pregnant and ker-ching….
R33FAL said:
If everything goes t!ts up... is it not possible to just
a) turn all your assets into cash (might be tricky with £650k)
b) send money offshore
Then claim you are skint with the courts? Genuine question.
You have to hand over 12 months bank statements so this will be flushed out in seconds and will be viewed dimly by the court. If you don’t provide details of the offshore money, you’d be in contempt of court and face 6 months in prison.a) turn all your assets into cash (might be tricky with £650k)
b) send money offshore
Then claim you are skint with the courts? Genuine question.
Not a good plan.
Questions like the OP’s intrigue me, the whole planning for failure thing. Bet it’s a fun conversation with the fiancée.
One of my friends got divorced, met someone new who moved in with them, they set up a rent book. At what point in the relationship do you go actually I trust you/can see my life with you, lets bin the rent book. Or do you live that way ‘just in case’ for ever...
One of my friends got divorced, met someone new who moved in with them, they set up a rent book. At what point in the relationship do you go actually I trust you/can see my life with you, lets bin the rent book. Or do you live that way ‘just in case’ for ever...
Henners said:
Questions like the OP’s intrigue me, the whole planning for failure thing. Bet it’s a fun conversation with the fiancée.
One of my friends got divorced, met someone new who moved in with them, they set up a rent book. At what point in the relationship do you go actually I trust you/can see my life with you, lets bin the rent book. Or do you live that way ‘just in case’ for ever...
I agree, most people who get married aren’t planning a divorce but people / circumstances change and it happens. You can live with someone for 30 years and they have no claim over your individual assets, the second you get married they do.One of my friends got divorced, met someone new who moved in with them, they set up a rent book. At what point in the relationship do you go actually I trust you/can see my life with you, lets bin the rent book. Or do you live that way ‘just in case’ for ever...
I didn’t even know joint life spousal maintenance existed until I went through a divorce. It’s not right that you may have to pay someone a monthly amount of money for the rest of your / their life. What happened to personal responsibility?
I think you should have to have a session on the legal obligations of marriage before you do it. They are massively onerous.
JulianPH said:
I would strongly recommend you have a prenuptial agreement put in place in any event. You can call this by any name you wish (Financial Undertaking Agreement, for example) and cover what you seek to protect by 3 simple statements:
1) All pre-marital assets (and any future income or growth derived from them, whether reinvested in other assets or not) shall without exception always remain the property of the relevant owner prior to the marriage.
2) All marital assets accrued by both parties upon commencement of the marriage shall be deemed as being equally owned by both partners in perpetuity.
3) All assets whatsoever (whether pre-marital or marital) shall in the event of the death of one partner during the marriage be deemed as belonging solely to the surviving partner and shall only be inherited by the children of both partners.
This is just a simple guideline, but whatever you have drawn up please ensure you both seek separate legal advice prior to signing.
I would remove point 3 and get a decent Will made with protective trusts to ring-fence assets to prevent sideways disinheritance.1) All pre-marital assets (and any future income or growth derived from them, whether reinvested in other assets or not) shall without exception always remain the property of the relevant owner prior to the marriage.
2) All marital assets accrued by both parties upon commencement of the marriage shall be deemed as being equally owned by both partners in perpetuity.
3) All assets whatsoever (whether pre-marital or marital) shall in the event of the death of one partner during the marriage be deemed as belonging solely to the surviving partner and shall only be inherited by the children of both partners.
This is just a simple guideline, but whatever you have drawn up please ensure you both seek separate legal advice prior to signing.
1. If you have significant assets and are thinking of getting married you would be well advised to get a pre-nuptial agreement properly drawn up.
2. Once you've been married for 10 years and the other half has given up their job to look after your three children you can't expect to get away scot-free.
2. Once you've been married for 10 years and the other half has given up their job to look after your three children you can't expect to get away scot-free.
LimaDelta said:
Marry someone you trust?
Everybody who marries, marries someone they trust. That doesn't stop things going South later on down the line. I totally trusted my first son's mother up until the point she cheated. To the OP, I've never been married (never will) but cohabitation and kids change things.
My partner and I have a document drawn up from a solicitor which states that in the event of a split, we each get our initial house deposits back (I put in a lot more) and everything else is split 50:50. I'm not sure how much use it would be if things turned ugly and of course I don't have the legal restrictions of being married.
If you're worried about it, I'd definitely talk to a solicitor.
Robertj21a said:
Sounds rather like money is the most important issue in your life. The fiancee would do better looking elsewhere.
Not really.If someone has worked hard over 30 years for something and the other partner brings very little to the table it's only a natural reaction to want to protect your personal wealth.
We have all read too many horror stories on this site where some guy goes from a 5 bed semi to a bedsit in Harrogate because of a nasty divorce.
I would just get a pre-nuptual agreement certainly if she has already mentioned this then it's surely not going to be a problem to sign.
xjay1337 said:
Robertj21a said:
Sounds rather like money is the most important issue in your life. The fiancee would do better looking elsewhere.
Not really.If someone has worked hard over 30 years for something and the other partner brings very little to the table it's only a natural reaction to want to protect your personal wealth.
We have all read too many horror stories on this site where some guy goes from a 5 bed semi to a bedsit in Harrogate because of a nasty divorce.
I would just get a pre-nuptual agreement certainly if she has already mentioned this then it's surely not going to be a problem to sign.
Just look at Jeff Bezos...
you'll get rinsed as soon as she pulls the 'I'm not happy card'.
£600k in net assets will be reduced to a garden hut by the time she (and her lawyers) is finished with you.
I could be wrong though
But I could be right too... just witness countless testimonies with men get divorced r_ _ ped.
you'll get rinsed as soon as she pulls the 'I'm not happy card'.
£600k in net assets will be reduced to a garden hut by the time she (and her lawyers) is finished with you.
I could be wrong though
But I could be right too... just witness countless testimonies with men get divorced r_ _ ped.
If you have this view of marriage why wouldn't you rent the house you live in together!?
Guessing the laws are different if you don't own your family home?
As for the cash you have in your current house, use it for a few rental properties under a Ltd company? Maybe partner with someone else in that company to ensure if the marriage goes sour someone else will be fighting your corner?
Alternatively, liquidate everything now, get it offshore and start from scratch financially and hope your marriage last 13 months+
I just wouldn't have got married with your outlook on life!
Guessing the laws are different if you don't own your family home?
As for the cash you have in your current house, use it for a few rental properties under a Ltd company? Maybe partner with someone else in that company to ensure if the marriage goes sour someone else will be fighting your corner?
Alternatively, liquidate everything now, get it offshore and start from scratch financially and hope your marriage last 13 months+
I just wouldn't have got married with your outlook on life!
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