Any thoughts on tenancy in common?

[UTH]

paulrockliffe said:

UTH said:

The Moose said:

And what happens if there’s a loss in value?

Then I guess she loses nothing as she's put nothing in and I lose some money? But like my flat now, I've actually lost £75k on what I paid 6 years go.....that's the way it goes?

Or is that not how it works? She can't exactly lose money on £0 can she?

Of course she can, I'd think you're sailing pretty close to the limit of reasonableness though, I can't imagine many women marrying men who ask them to sign up to a hypotthetical debt obligation, it hardly says, "I'll love you forever" does it!

HAHA yeah so that would mean me saying "if 'we' start taking a loss, you actually owe me money out of your pocket"? Yeah, that very much would be a d1ck move I would have thought!

[The Moose]

paulrockliffe said:

UTH said:

The Moose said:

And what happens if there’s a loss in value?

Then I guess she loses nothing as she's put nothing in and I lose some money? But like my flat now, I've actually lost £75k on what I paid 6 years go.....that's the way it goes?

Or is that not how it works? She can't exactly lose money on £0 can she?

Of course she can, I'd think you're sailing pretty close to the limit of reasonableness though, I can't imagine many women marrying men who ask them to sign up to a hypotthetical debt obligation, it hardly says, "I'll love you forever" does it!

Nor does the alternative that benefits her! All the reward with minimal risk. Nice if you can get it!

[UTH]

The Moose said:

Nor does the alternative that benefits her! All the reward with minimal risk. Nice if you can get it!

Also true. I think she needs to realise she's doing pretty well out of all of this. End of the day she is going to start accruing equity in her name without laying a single £ down, as well as living in a very nice house! I'm sure the solicitor will make her see this and we'll be back on track.

God, this whole thing does make it already sound like a bitter divorce battle instead of the start of our exciting lives!

[Jakg]

This shouldn't be complicated for a conveyancer?

Many unmarried couples have unequal deposits and want to protected that.

I had one - we both owned the property equally (well the mortgage company owned most of it, but you get the jist) - it wasn't more one person's house than the other.
The contact was - one person put in £x, the other put in £y. When the house is sold, we both got back our respective £x & £y, and then we divided the equity equally. It didn't factor in inflation or anything but it was very simple to explain.
The term was "Deed of Trust".
Were married now so I doubt it means anything any more, but it was a sensible precaution at the time.

[UTH]

Jakg said:

This shouldn't be complicated for a conveyancer?

Many unmarried couples have unequal deposits and want to protected that.

I had one - we both owned the property equally (well the mortgage company owned most of it, but you get the jist) - it wasn't more one person's house than the other.
The contact was - one person put in £x, the other put in £y. When the house is sold, we both got back our respective £x & £y, and then we divided the equity equally. It didn't factor in inflation or anything but it was very simple to explain.
The term was "Deed of Trust".
Were married now so I doubt it means anything any more, but it was a sensible precaution at the time.

Yeah again I think this is how my situation will end up, only difference is that her £x she's putting in is zero, so she'd get zero back if we sold it at the same price as we bought it for example. But yes, I think me and her have over complicated it by not totally understanding what it all means, but this thread has helped a lot, certainly for me to understand. I might not show it to her though, she'll probably find some way of being upset about it ha ha.

[The Moose]

UTH said:

this whole thing does make it already sound like a bitter divorce battle instead of the start of our exciting lives!

You should also try to take the emotion out of it. It sounds like she is!!

You're making a big investment. You're buying an extremely expensive asset - the likelihood is that it'll be the most expensive asset you've bought to date.

Real life isn't all rainbows and unicorns ( unless you're part of pride I guess ). Don't worry about it "loosing it shine" etc.

I came into my marriage with substantially more assets than my wife. As I said before on PH, I brought up a prenuptial agreement. At first, she was shocked however we then talked through the pros and the cons like adults and she came to the decision that it was actually a good idea.

Her reasoning was that it sets out what happens in the event of a separation/divorce. Clearly it's not a pleasant thing to think about, but that's life - life happens. Having an actual road-map to work from if life were to happen actually ended up being a positive to both my wife and I.

[The Moose]

UTH said:

Yeah again I think this is how my situation will end up, only difference is that her £x she's putting in is zero, so she'd get zero back if we sold it at the same price as we bought it for example.

Just to be clear, you are aware that the property has to increase in value to break even, right?

UTH said:

I might not show it to her though, she'll probably find some way of being upset about it ha ha.

If this isn't tongue in cheek, think twice...and good luck!!

[UTH]

The Moose said:

UTH said:

Yeah again I think this is how my situation will end up, only difference is that her £x she's putting in is zero, so she'd get zero back if we sold it at the same price as we bought it for example.

Just to be clear, you are aware that the property has to increase in value to break even, right?

UTH said:

I might not show it to her though, she'll probably find some way of being upset about it ha ha.

If this isn't tongue in cheek, think twice...and good luck!!

How do you mean, in terms of break even?

I meant show her this thread? No need to really is there?

[SmoothCriminal]

If you are getting married next year why is she bothered about what profit she will get out of the house if you split, I'm pretty sure the declaration of trust will be overridden by any divorce settlement

[UTH]

SmoothCriminal said:

If you are getting married next year why is she bothered about what profit she will get out of the house if you split, I'm pretty sure the declaration of trust will be overridden by any divorce settlement

I imagine this is 100% because neither of us understood/understand the ins and outs of this......which is why I think we have both blown it up into a bigger thing than it needs to be, because like you say, a divorce settlement, if ever it did happen, would make this all pretty irrelevant.

[paulrockliffe]

UTH said:

paulrockliffe said:

UTH said:

The Moose said:

And what happens if there’s a loss in value?

Then I guess she loses nothing as she's put nothing in and I lose some money? But like my flat now, I've actually lost £75k on what I paid 6 years go.....that's the way it goes?

Or is that not how it works? She can't exactly lose money on £0 can she?

Of course she can, I'd think you're sailing pretty close to the limit of reasonableness though, I can't imagine many women marrying men who ask them to sign up to a hypotthetical debt obligation, it hardly says, "I'll love you forever" does it!

HAHA yeah so that would mean me saying "if 'we' start taking a loss, you actually owe me money out of your pocket"? Yeah, that very much would be a d1ck move I would have thought!

You could always double-down and charge her the proportion of the open market rent the house would command that your deposit covers too.

I assumed I'd missed something about divorce over-riding this, I thought that was right. If that's the case then I wouldn't bother with any of this complicated stuff.

[tight fart]

You don't sound ready to get married, she should run a mile, now.

[85Carrera]

tight fart said:

You don't sound ready to get married, she should run a mile, now.

+1

[roadsmash]

No offence OP, but she’s horrendously ungrateful. You’re effectively giving her the privilege of becoming a home owner without her having to cough up any money for the deposit.

Has she not got ANY savings?

100-0 obviously isn’t the way to go, that would indeed be unfair on her... but if she won’t agree to 50/50 with a declaration of trust protecting your investment, she’s a cow.

"I won't sign yet. What about the mortgage?!” Jesus Christ. Marriage material right there.

I would be steering well clear of marriage. She sounds utterly dangerous.

[Johnnytheboy]

roadsmash said:

100-0 obviously isn’t the way to go, that would indeed be unfair on her... but if she won’t agree to 50/50 with a declaration of trust protecting your investment, she’s a cow.

[PostHeads123]

I would try and find the cash to keep her off mortgage. I had a declaration trust with an ex based on %, got messy as she held off signing papers when we sold after the split in the hope I would just give her more to get over and done with, in the end I gave her £5k more just so it was done.

[M3333]

We used a declaration of trust.

My partner had no way to contribute to our current house and I had a £40k deposit.

The DOT has protected my deposit. We both contribute to the mortgage equally.

Worst case if we split is I get my deposit back, plus any of my contributions and accumulated equity and she also gets her fair share of what she has contributed to the mortgage and accumulated equity.

Seems fair to me and she was fully understanding, was actually very appreciative to own her own house as had always rented.

Its all 'nuclear option' stuff anyway. When we grow old together we will share the wealth together or if I snuff it early she can have it all anyway for her and the little one while i grow daisies.

But if she ever goes full on wobble mental at least I can salvage something to press the reset button and start again and she would also walk away with probably enough for a deposit for her own place. We both would come away better with the 'nuclear option' but realistically after a decade together perfectly happy it shouldn't ever happen.

A few previous extremely terrible relationship experiences made me very protective of my hard earned deposit!

Edited by M3333 on Saturday 19th September 19:37

[roadsmash]

Well done OP and thanks for updating.

[UTH]

roadsmash said:

Well done OP and thanks for updating.

I’ve not updated yet

[roadsmash]

UTH said:

roadsmash said:

Well done OP and thanks for updating.

I’ve not updated yet

Haha whoops. Sorry.