Crossing a Solid White Line ?
Discussion
saaby93 said:
Look at this one found the other day
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
It's a roundabout with solid hatching around it. Since the photo so many drivers have a wheel or 3 over it's becoming worn away.
Is anyone doing that in for a 3 pointer too?
They are ridiculous - there is one here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a... which makes a mockery of taking the roundabout in a safe manner, so that other vehicles can see your intentions clearly.http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
It's a roundabout with solid hatching around it. Since the photo so many drivers have a wheel or 3 over it's becoming worn away.
Is anyone doing that in for a 3 pointer too?
If you swing wide outside the circle, nobody knows whether you are coming off at the next exit, or continuing round, unless they spot your indicators - and what are the chances of that, when they are gunning the throttle for a quick exit - they have one eye on THEIR exit, not your blinking indicators!
Result? Nobody bothers trying to avoid the line, they just go where common sense dictates!
Apologies for taking it off to another thread and discussion of verges etc
Thye were chevrons leaving a DC rather than entering?
I dont know why they dont make them dashed - they must expect someone to cross them sometime
Here was the best response ( I think) but waiting clarification
Thye were chevrons leaving a DC rather than entering?
I dont know why they dont make them dashed - they must expect someone to cross them sometime
Here was the best response ( I think) but waiting clarification
vonhosen said:
SS2. said:
The markings in the picture look like a Diagram 1042 to me.
If so, and courtesy of reg.10 TSRGD 2002, those markings are a traffic sign to which s.36 Road Traffic Act 1988 applies.
And an offence contrary to s.36 RTA 1988 (failing to comply with a traffic sign) carries 3 points, discretionary disqualification and a fine of up to £1000 upon conviction.
It is also an offence which can be dealt with by fixed penalty (3 points & £60).
It'll be a list 1 offence though, not a list 2 & therefore not endorsable, no ?If so, and courtesy of reg.10 TSRGD 2002, those markings are a traffic sign to which s.36 Road Traffic Act 1988 applies.
And an offence contrary to s.36 RTA 1988 (failing to comply with a traffic sign) carries 3 points, discretionary disqualification and a fine of up to £1000 upon conviction.
It is also an offence which can be dealt with by fixed penalty (3 points & £60).
screem said:
Is it endorsable? or FPN? or Both?
Failing to comply with a traffic sign (on an 'A' road) contrary to s.36 RTA 1988, but not one for which endorsement applies. Accordingly, it could be dealt with by non-endorseable FPN.
The markings fall into the same category as Give Way and Keep Left signs, for instance.
saaby93 said:
ok so in this thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
where
The codes, as have been said are local codes, but in the linked thread it was on a motorway, which the offence is crossing a verge and carries 3 points and £60, so was issued correctly.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
where
the ticket said:
Fixed Penalty Notice and Offence 393 Drive across verge / central reservation. Which carries a £60 fine and three points.
are we saying thatvonhosen said:
It should be a specific non-endorsable ticket on an A road (endorsable on motorway) for crossing those chevrons or a max level 3 fine at court.
the wrong code may have been issued ?Landshark said:
The codes, as have been said are local codes, but in the linked thread it was on a motorway, which the offence is crossing a verge and carries 3 points and £60, so was issued correctly.
Not convinced, unless there's a new definition of verge for motorways 
Verge is the bit at the side, central reservation the bit in the middle, the chevroned area I'd call the bit between lanes
which brings in Von's ignoring traffic signs penalty
vonhosen said:
It should be a specific non-endorsable ticket on an A road (endorsable on motorway) for crossing those chevrons or a max level 3 fine at court.
What worries me too is whether there is now an offence of driving on the verge of a normal road 
SS2. said:
saaby93 said:
Verge is the bit at the side, central reservation the bit in the middle, the chevroned area I'd call the bit between lanes..
The motorway regulations define a 'verge' as being 'any part of a motorway which is not a carriageway, a hard shoulder or a central reservation'.saaby93 said:
SS2. said:
saaby93 said:
Verge is the bit at the side, central reservation the bit in the middle, the chevroned area I'd call the bit between lanes..
The motorway regulations define a 'verge' as being 'any part of a motorway which is not a carriageway, a hard shoulder or a central reservation'.But on non-motorways, there is no definition of verge. So you first link isn't necessarily a precedent for this thread.
tvrgit said:
No the motorway regs define carriageway as the road surface delineated to be regularly used for the passage of motor vehicles - that bit isn't for the regular passage of motor vehicles, so is not part of the carriageway - nor is it central reservation or hard shoulder, so by default, it's verge under motorway regs.
But on non-motorways, there is no definition of verge. So you first link isn't necessarily a precedent for this thread.
out of interest what's the non-motorway definition of carriageway But on non-motorways, there is no definition of verge. So you first link isn't necessarily a precedent for this thread.
Just to move away from all this technical arguing...
I once got pulled by a copper on the motorway becuase I had crossed a white line as I came down the slip road onto the main cariageway.
He pulled me over and stormed up to my window and was incredibly aggressive and confrontational. I was absolutely gobsmacked and genuinely had no idea what his problem was until he eventually threatened me with losing my license because I had crossed a white line. He made me move my car further up the carriageway away from the junction and then came storming back for another bout of abuse at me.
I then explained that I was too busy trying to gauge the speed differential of the caravan and 5 vehicles in front of me on the slip road with the speed of the busy motorway we were all attempting to join and that I had seen a gap beside me, moved over and then allowed the caravan and 5 cars to join in front of me in a safe manner. During which I MAY/MUST have crossed a white between the slip road and main carriageway by a few feet.
He still ranted on and eventually told me to be on my way.
It was only afterwards that it crossed my mind that I should have taken his number and reported him, his behaviour was truly appalling, I could only assume he'd had a particularly bad day or something. Maybe someone owning a Galaxy like mine was tupping his missus? Anyways, never an excuse to use that attitude and language to anyone in any walk of life. t
t!
I once got pulled by a copper on the motorway becuase I had crossed a white line as I came down the slip road onto the main cariageway.
He pulled me over and stormed up to my window and was incredibly aggressive and confrontational. I was absolutely gobsmacked and genuinely had no idea what his problem was until he eventually threatened me with losing my license because I had crossed a white line. He made me move my car further up the carriageway away from the junction and then came storming back for another bout of abuse at me.
I then explained that I was too busy trying to gauge the speed differential of the caravan and 5 vehicles in front of me on the slip road with the speed of the busy motorway we were all attempting to join and that I had seen a gap beside me, moved over and then allowed the caravan and 5 cars to join in front of me in a safe manner. During which I MAY/MUST have crossed a white between the slip road and main carriageway by a few feet.
He still ranted on and eventually told me to be on my way.
It was only afterwards that it crossed my mind that I should have taken his number and reported him, his behaviour was truly appalling, I could only assume he'd had a particularly bad day or something. Maybe someone owning a Galaxy like mine was tupping his missus? Anyways, never an excuse to use that attitude and language to anyone in any walk of life. t
t!saaby93 said:
tvrgit said:
No the motorway regs define carriageway as the road surface delineated to be regularly used for the passage of motor vehicles - that bit isn't for the regular passage of motor vehicles, so is not part of the carriageway - nor is it central reservation or hard shoulder, so by default, it's verge under motorway regs.
But on non-motorways, there is no definition of verge. So you first link isn't necessarily a precedent for this thread.
out of interest what's the non-motorway definition of carriageway But on non-motorways, there is no definition of verge. So you first link isn't necessarily a precedent for this thread.
Piersman2 said:
Just to move away from all this technical arguing...
Hey we're not arguing - it's a learning experience Piersman2 said:
I then explained that I was too busy trying to gauge the speed differential of the caravan and 5 vehicles in front of me on the slip road with the speed of the busy motorway we were all attempting to join and that I had seen a gap beside me, moved over and then allowed the caravan and 5 cars to join in front of me in a safe manner. During which I MAY/MUST have crossed a white between the slip road and main carriageway by a few feet.
Definite nono 
from threads on hereThere are some places where they dash the lines instead to make it obvious to Joe Ordinary where it's safe to cross the lines and where not
saaby93 said:
Piersman2 said:
Just to move away from all this technical arguing...
Hey we're not arguing - it's a learning experience Piersman2 said:
I then explained that I was too busy trying to gauge the speed differential of the caravan and 5 vehicles in front of me on the slip road with the speed of the busy motorway we were all attempting to join and that I had seen a gap beside me, moved over and then allowed the caravan and 5 cars to join in front of me in a safe manner. During which I MAY/MUST have crossed a white between the slip road and main carriageway by a few feet.
Definite nono from threads on hereThere are some places where they dash the lines instead to make it obvious to Joe Ordinary where it's safe to cross the lines and where not
)... but on this occasion I was more pre-occupied an ensuring myself and the everyone else could join the busy motorway safely and my attention was on looking at the cars/caravan in front of me and in my wing mirror watching for a gap in the inside lane traffic rather than staring at a white line on the road. I guess we were all lucky to have made it out alive!
Just on this white lines thing.... why has everyone gone mad with painting them everywhere.
Obvioulsy it's done to control traffic flow, but it seems mainly to be to slow it down.
I'm thinking about the M3 and M4 junctions I use everyday. 5 years ago I used to head out on the M3, whizz under the M25 junction and head out to civilisation. Now, someone has decided that the M3 must be limited to one lane as it goes under the M25, queue traffic jam as three lanes all squeeze down to one.
Then, if I take the M25 to M4, they've painted out the peel off lane to the M4 to just one lane as well. So no more whizzing up there and peeling round, now it's a queue to get onto the M4 everytime.
And I can think of loads of other limitations that have been imposed similarly, where multiple lanes have been reduced with the addition of a bit of white paint.
Is white paint cheap at the moment?
Obvioulsy it's done to control traffic flow, but it seems mainly to be to slow it down.
I'm thinking about the M3 and M4 junctions I use everyday. 5 years ago I used to head out on the M3, whizz under the M25 junction and head out to civilisation. Now, someone has decided that the M3 must be limited to one lane as it goes under the M25, queue traffic jam as three lanes all squeeze down to one.
Then, if I take the M25 to M4, they've painted out the peel off lane to the M4 to just one lane as well. So no more whizzing up there and peeling round, now it's a queue to get onto the M4 everytime.
And I can think of loads of other limitations that have been imposed similarly, where multiple lanes have been reduced with the addition of a bit of white paint.
Is white paint cheap at the moment?
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