The Official Manchester United Thread [vol 7]
Discussion
desolate said:
This may be seen as an attempt to troll but isn't meant that way.
Would you rather see this batch of players given a chance to go for it under a new manager?
Results are better than performances - probably indicates there's a few decent players there.
not at all.Would you rather see this batch of players given a chance to go for it under a new manager?
Results are better than performances - probably indicates there's a few decent players there.
some of the players we have currently are not at the right level, we've known this for a while, i named a few earlier. the odd strong attacking midfielder, and a rethink of attacking options are needed, with a more defined game plan. tweaks, not a major change. we won 2 or 3 trophies last year, and are currently 2nd in the Prem, and in the FA cup semi, with as good a chance as anyone of winning it. many teams would die to be in this position, with money available as and when required. Jose has i reckon 2 seasons max to push on and sort it, but the team also bear some responsibility for the up and down performances, albeit while still winning at times.
in any normal year, we would all be talking about the last 5 or 6 games and who will win, as the points gained so far by Utd and Liverpool generally have you in contention.
Challo said:
One thing you can say about the Spuds, Pool and City is they have a team and play as one. Everyone knows their role and if they make a change more often the player coming in plays the same way.
We do seem to have a lot of individuals at times.
They all play in a less complicated manner in the final 3rd. I agree wholeheartedly with what Mourinho said after the West Brom game.We do seem to have a lot of individuals at times.
I still have faith that Mourinho can get us up to the top. Not prepared to give up on him just yet.
Getting knocked out by Seville was s
te. We need to learn from that experience.
Other than that the season hasn't gone too bad at all (so far), sure there's been some sketchy perfomance's and crap results but that's football (and Manchester United) for you. We've no god given right to win anything but I do think we have the manager and coaches in place to get a tune out of this lot.
te. We need to learn from that experience. Other than that the season hasn't gone too bad at all (so far), sure there's been some sketchy perfomance's and crap results but that's football (and Manchester United) for you. We've no god given right to win anything but I do think we have the manager and coaches in place to get a tune out of this lot.
anniesdad said:
Getting knocked out by Seville was ste. We need to learn from that experience.
Other than that the season hasn't gone too bad at all (so far), sure there's been some sketchy perfomance's and crap results but that's football (and Manchester United) for you. We've no god given right to win anything but I do think we have the manager and coaches in place to get a tune out of this lot.
Seville was the icing on the cake though. Since the beginning of December we’ve payed crap. We drew loads over Christmas and have never recovered from that. We haven’t put in a decent 90 mins this calendar year and nobody has been soundly beaten by us. That isn’t a good sign for the future. Even moreso when Liverpool and to an extent Spuds can sweep a team aside 3, 4 or 5 nil with minimal effort. te. We need to learn from that experience. Other than that the season hasn't gone too bad at all (so far), sure there's been some sketchy perfomance's and crap results but that's football (and Manchester United) for you. We've no god given right to win anything but I do think we have the manager and coaches in place to get a tune out of this lot.
Gavia said:
Calls for a clear out are wide of the mark, but some players need to go. Sadly, I include Martial in that. I agree with others that he’s a miserable tt, face, body language, the lot just make him come across as a sulky teenager and I don’t see that changing.
Our big problem though is holding on to some players, especially DDG. He must be getting pissed off now and if he goes then we’ve got a real problem.
Mourinho should’ve built a spine through the team by now and then use this transfer window to fill in the gaps. Instead we’ve got a bit of a clusterfk going on. Defence? Relying on SAF signings 5 years after he left, or Lindelof (very ropey) / Bailey (real potential, but seems to be made of glass)
Midfield: Pogba, two years in and he barely scores. Whilst he can control a game, it’s often all down to him as others don’t perform, or he just can’t be arsed. Matic- the ultimate bipolar player. Either superb, or a disaster
Attack - Lukaku, seems to have lost his way again. He seems to either score goals, or set them up, but never both in a match. He also seems to disappear more than he does either of those, it that could easily be down to no service.
With this lack of a spine, I’m struggling to see what value there is dealing with the left / right of defence and wings.
It seems like we’ve got a bitsa team, justblike in the Ron Atkinson days, rather than a cohesive team that understands how to play as a team.
It's all down to st, face, body language, the lot just make him come across as a sulky teenager and I don’t see that changing. Our big problem though is holding on to some players, especially DDG. He must be getting pissed off now and if he goes then we’ve got a real problem.
Mourinho should’ve built a spine through the team by now and then use this transfer window to fill in the gaps. Instead we’ve got a bit of a clusterf
k going on. Defence? Relying on SAF signings 5 years after he left, or Lindelof (very ropey) / Bailey (real potential, but seems to be made of glass)Midfield: Pogba, two years in and he barely scores. Whilst he can control a game, it’s often all down to him as others don’t perform, or he just can’t be arsed. Matic- the ultimate bipolar player. Either superb, or a disaster
Attack - Lukaku, seems to have lost his way again. He seems to either score goals, or set them up, but never both in a match. He also seems to disappear more than he does either of those, it that could easily be down to no service.
With this lack of a spine, I’m struggling to see what value there is dealing with the left / right of defence and wings.
It seems like we’ve got a bitsa team, justblike in the Ron Atkinson days, rather than a cohesive team that understands how to play as a team.
t service and he's having to drop deeper to get on the ball. If Lukaku had good service he would score goals for fun. We all know his first touch is ropey but he's come on a long way already this year and is a more complete striker. With good balls he would easily bang in 30 a season.I do feel for Pogba, he's carrying the weight of the team and any error is blamed on him by the press etc due to his price tag, which wasn't down to him.
For me this summer we go for Alderweireld, Sessegnon, Mahrez and Julian Weigl
Given the quality of some of our players, there are only two possible explanations for why we are often so poor going forward:
(1) either some of the players are very poor and so contribute nothing much;
(2) the team is coached badly or otherwise not prepared properly to play together as an effective attacking unit.
I think it’s mostly (2). We have a few players who lack basic technical ability, but I don’t think that’s fatal to an effective attack. My view is that the players are good enough to play much better.
To play devil’s advocate, though, I do think there is a problem with having quite a few players who cannot do very basic things. The great sides usually have very few weak links, if any.
(1) either some of the players are very poor and so contribute nothing much;
(2) the team is coached badly or otherwise not prepared properly to play together as an effective attacking unit.
I think it’s mostly (2). We have a few players who lack basic technical ability, but I don’t think that’s fatal to an effective attack. My view is that the players are good enough to play much better.
To play devil’s advocate, though, I do think there is a problem with having quite a few players who cannot do very basic things. The great sides usually have very few weak links, if any.
My thoughts are that the approach is to pass it about aimlesssly in midfield, particularly two players at any time passing it back and forth between them, or one player passing the ball then whoever he passes it to plays it back to him immediately.
I think the idea is to try to draw the opposition out, but they don’t fall for it, so we stand still with the ball. All our players off the ball stand and watch and the opposition hold their position.
Then we have a hopeful punt or someone tries to take on all 11 of them.
That is how they’re being coached and that’s what’s wrong. City are constantly on the move, players making runs forward pulling the defence all over. That’s where Ronnie and Rooney were exceptional when we were arguably the best team around (excluding Barca). That’s what we need more of. Simple movement and it’s what we’re getting less and less of.
I think the idea is to try to draw the opposition out, but they don’t fall for it, so we stand still with the ball. All our players off the ball stand and watch and the opposition hold their position.
Then we have a hopeful punt or someone tries to take on all 11 of them.
That is how they’re being coached and that’s what’s wrong. City are constantly on the move, players making runs forward pulling the defence all over. That’s where Ronnie and Rooney were exceptional when we were arguably the best team around (excluding Barca). That’s what we need more of. Simple movement and it’s what we’re getting less and less of.
Gavia said:
My thoughts are that the approach is to pass it about aimlesssly in midfield, particularly two players at any time passing it back and forth between them, or one player passing the ball then whoever he passes it to plays it back to him immediately.
LVG would have been so proud... 
Scoring from distance would be a start, always a good way to open up a packed defence. The key is getting a lead, then the game opens up. We need to start doing that sooner on in games.
anniesdad said:
LVG would have been so proud...
Scoring from distance would be a start, always a good way to open up a packed defence. The key is getting a lead, then the game opens up. We need to start doing that sooner on in games.
Seriously, watch it when we’re playing a team who aren’t pressing us and you’ll see us do that umpteen times in a match. Scoring from distance would be a start, always a good way to open up a packed defence. The key is getting a lead, then the game opens up. We need to start doing that sooner on in games.
Gavia said:
anniesdad said:
LVG would have been so proud...
Scoring from distance would be a start, always a good way to open up a packed defence. The key is getting a lead, then the game opens up. We need to start doing that sooner on in games.
Seriously, watch it when we’re playing a team who aren’t pressing us and you’ll see us do that umpteen times in a match. Scoring from distance would be a start, always a good way to open up a packed defence. The key is getting a lead, then the game opens up. We need to start doing that sooner on in games.
anniesdad said:
Oh I know, I've seen it alright. What started off this season as promising has definitely petered out somewhat and I do think it's at least partly due to the pressure that City put us under to not drop any points.
Absolutely. The thing is, they put pressure on by having confidence in their play and went for the jugular, we simply choked and went for 1-0 grinds, without realising that that played straight into the hands of the opposition. Unless we’re prepared to play football, then we’ll continue to trail City and potentially others. If we hadn’t had such a positive start we’d be battling with Chelsea and Arsenal now over 4th and watching the others vanish into the distance. Until we get back to playing the way we started this season I’ll continue to criticise us and Mourinho for s
t football. desolate said:
I think city being so far ahead almost right from the start has made this a strange season.
Everyone has more or less accepted they will the title from about October.
It leads to an unusual dynamic at the top of the table.
It also means Mourinho has been at his grumpiest for months.
They weren’t that far ahead. When we played them in early December a win for us got us within 3 or 4 points IIRC, instead we choked and that was the end of it, as we then drew three on the bounce in the run up / during the Christmas period Everyone has more or less accepted they will the title from about October.
It leads to an unusual dynamic at the top of the table.
It also means Mourinho has been at his grumpiest for months.
Gavia said:
They weren’t that far ahead. When we played them in early December a win for us got us within 3 or 4 points IIRC, instead we choked and that was the end of it, as we then drew three on the bounce in the run up / during the Christmas period
Fair enough Seems like a long time anyway.
anniesdad said:
desolate said:
This may be seen as an attempt to troll but isn't meant that way.
Would you rather see this batch of players given a chance to go for it under a new manager?
No, Mourinho has improved the team but there is still work to do. Changing the manager again now would be a big mistake I think. Would you rather see this batch of players given a chance to go for it under a new manager?
desolate said:
Fair enough
Seems like a long time anyway.
This is the table before we played City. What was clear was that you and Spurs were miles adrift, with Chelsea looking strong. The fact they dropped away and you and the Spuds picked up the pace is moot. We were theoretically the only challengers at this point and well in with a shout, but fell apart after losing at home to City and have never recovered. We played good football up until this point, albeit with the odd freak result (which we all get). Seems like a long time anyway.
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