Highway code changes for cyclists and I'm concerned
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
Mave said:
Welshbeef said:
Totally agree.
A question though - as the car is stopped engine off they are exiting the car as a pedestrian are they not? Or are they still considered to be “driving” /car user.
At what point does their tier 4 car move to tier 0 pedestrian and therefore everyone above pedestrian has a responsibility for their safety?
Note I’d assume once the car doors are closed but an interesting question none the less
And its exactly this kind of "interesting" question that leads to more and more rules / clarifications being introduced. If people thought more about what happens when i cyclist hits a door at 20mph (or is it 30+?) rather than what tier they were in, then there wouldn't be a need for tiers... A question though - as the car is stopped engine off they are exiting the car as a pedestrian are they not? Or are they still considered to be “driving” /car user.
At what point does their tier 4 car move to tier 0 pedestrian and therefore everyone above pedestrian has a responsibility for their safety?
Note I’d assume once the car doors are closed but an interesting question none the less
Welshbeef said:
Now the rules have changed and cyclists are responsible for pedestrians don’t you think lawyers on an accident would try every route to put the blame onto the cyclist.
Responsibility = accountability which means when something goes wrong an accident an injury responsibility turns into compensation.
You do comprehend that don’t you.
fResponsibility = accountability which means when something goes wrong an accident an injury responsibility turns into compensation.
You do comprehend that don’t you.
k me. Do you think we’re all just currently riding into pedestrians and this will now make us realise where we’ve been going wrong? We don’t ride I’m the door zone precisely for reasons like this. Yet people like you want us to do that so you have more space to make serene progress like there is no other traffic. So which is it?
Those of us who are competent road users have always looked out for more vulnerable road users.
While you’re here - as you were so exercised by this yesterday - do tell us how many times you’ve been late for your oh-so-important appointments because of a cyclist.
One for Welshbeef...
You're a pedestrian walking down the road with a scaffold pole on your shoulder.
You go to cross the road, and as you turn to cross you decapitate an oncoming motorcyclist.
Is that
a) your fault, your responsibility?
or
b) 'Nothing to do with me mate, he's 3 tiers above me FFS.'
You're a pedestrian walking down the road with a scaffold pole on your shoulder.
You go to cross the road, and as you turn to cross you decapitate an oncoming motorcyclist.
Is that
a) your fault, your responsibility?
or
b) 'Nothing to do with me mate, he's 3 tiers above me FFS.'
Gweeds said:
fk me.
Do you think we’re all just currently riding into pedestrians and this will now make us realise where we’ve been going wrong? We don’t ride I’m the door zone precisely for reasons like this. Yet people like you want us to do that so you have more space to make serene progress like there is no other traffic. So which is it?
Those of us who are competent road users have always looked out for more vulnerable road users.
While you’re here - as you were so exercised by this yesterday - do tell us how many times you’ve been late for your oh-so-important appointments because of a cyclist.
Sorry you seem like a shouty cyclist. k me. Do you think we’re all just currently riding into pedestrians and this will now make us realise where we’ve been going wrong? We don’t ride I’m the door zone precisely for reasons like this. Yet people like you want us to do that so you have more space to make serene progress like there is no other traffic. So which is it?
Those of us who are competent road users have always looked out for more vulnerable road users.
While you’re here - as you were so exercised by this yesterday - do tell us how many times you’ve been late for your oh-so-important appointments because of a cyclist.
Where have I stated I want cyclists to cycle in any different zone of the road? I have not and specifically not done so.
monthou said:
One for Welshbeef...
You're a pedestrian walking down the road with a scaffold pole on your shoulder.
You go to cross the road, and as you turn to cross you decapitate an oncoming motorcyclist.
Is that
a) your fault, your responsibility?
or
b) 'Nothing to do with me mate, he's 3 tiers above me FFS.'
Wow. You're a pedestrian walking down the road with a scaffold pole on your shoulder.
You go to cross the road, and as you turn to cross you decapitate an oncoming motorcyclist.
Is that
a) your fault, your responsibility?
or
b) 'Nothing to do with me mate, he's 3 tiers above me FFS.'
Firstly I’ve never seen or heard of that situation.
But extremely dangerous.
Really you should have correct signage so that pedestrians and road users are aware of the works.
Realistically the only people doing this would be scaffolding companies who have clear correct training on how to or not to do this and I would refer to their expertise.
Clearly in any situation no one wants to hurt or damage something and also not to hurt themselves or their own property.
Welshbeef said:
monthou said:
One for Welshbeef...
You're a pedestrian walking down the road with a scaffold pole on your shoulder.
You go to cross the road, and as you turn to cross you decapitate an oncoming motorcyclist.
Is that
a) your fault, your responsibility?
or
b) 'Nothing to do with me mate, he's 3 tiers above me FFS.'
Wow. You're a pedestrian walking down the road with a scaffold pole on your shoulder.
You go to cross the road, and as you turn to cross you decapitate an oncoming motorcyclist.
Is that
a) your fault, your responsibility?
or
b) 'Nothing to do with me mate, he's 3 tiers above me FFS.'
Firstly I’ve never seen or heard of that situation.
But extremely dangerous.
Really you should have correct signage so that pedestrians and road users are aware of the works.
Realistically the only people doing this would be scaffolding companies who have clear correct training on how to or not to do this and I would refer to their expertise.
Clearly in any situation no one wants to hurt or damage something and also not to hurt themselves or their own property.
I own scaffolding poles, I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
Will you answer the question though?
Vipers said:
As pedestrians or cyclists, and not many motorists will ever bother to read the new Highway Code, Will it make any difference except when they throw it at the motorist when he is in an accident.
Very much this. Also for the cyclists in this thread before now if you injured a pedestrian the fault would be whoever caused the issue now it is your fault regardless - how do you feel about that? There may well be a tiny minority of idiots who dislike cyclists or just plain as I who may go out of their way for a “claim” as you hurt them & are responsible.
I’m just expecting ambulance chasers against cyclists as everyone else is and always has been liable
monthou said:
Signage to walk down the road carrying a pole?
I own scaffolding poles, I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
Will you answer the question though?
Sorry your not talking about someone erecting scaffolding - rather an individual walking down the streets carrying a scaffolding pole? I own scaffolding poles, I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
Will you answer the question though?
I have one short scaffolding pole which the scaffolders left accidentally when we had our extension (a call to them not interested in picking it up). It’s sat in the shed ever since - years.
Now there would never be an instance when I would put that on my shoulder and walk down the road street or anywhere.
However looking at the rules - unless the pedestrian timed it deliberately to hit the cyclist then the rules we have now appear to be it’s the cyclist is responsible.
What happens if something a. Cyclist does causes a driver to die ? Same logic
What if a horse rider caused a motor cyclist to die
Welshbeef said:
Very much this.
Also for the cyclists in this thread before now if you injured a pedestrian the fault would be whoever caused the issue now it is your fault regardless - how do you feel about that? There may well be a tiny minority of idiots who dislike cyclists or just plain as I who may go out of their way for a “claim” as you hurt them & are responsible.
I’m just expecting ambulance chasers against cyclists as everyone else is and always has been liable
If that is what you think, then you clearly misunderstand the new rules.Also for the cyclists in this thread before now if you injured a pedestrian the fault would be whoever caused the issue now it is your fault regardless - how do you feel about that? There may well be a tiny minority of idiots who dislike cyclists or just plain as I who may go out of their way for a “claim” as you hurt them & are responsible.
I’m just expecting ambulance chasers against cyclists as everyone else is and always has been liable
I suggest you read this, as it is specifically designed to explain and clarify the new rules, for people who are confused:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/24/c...
monthou said:
Welshbeef said:
Also for the cyclists in this thread before now if you injured a pedestrian the fault would be whoever caused the issue now it is your fault regardless[
No it isn't.Pedestrians are top of the tree
Cyclists are tier 1 and are responsible and accountable for pedestrians. … did you miss this change in the rules… whoops
Welshbeef said:
Sorry I must have read the new rules wrong
Pedestrians are top of the tree
Cyclists are tier 1 and are responsible and accountable for pedestrians. … did you miss this change in the rules… whoops
Nope. Pedestrians are top of the tree
Cyclists are tier 1 and are responsible and accountable for pedestrians. … did you miss this change in the rules… whoops
There is no concept of strict liability in any of these cases.
Go and do some reading.
Welshbeef said:
monthou said:
Signage to walk down the road carrying a pole?
I own scaffolding poles, I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
Will you answer the question though?
Sorry your not talking about someone erecting scaffolding - rather an individual walking down the streets carrying a scaffolding pole? I own scaffolding poles, I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
Will you answer the question though?
I have one short scaffolding pole which the scaffolders left accidentally when we had our extension (a call to them not interested in picking it up). It’s sat in the shed ever since - years.
Now there would never be an instance when I would put that on my shoulder and walk down the road street or anywhere.
However looking at the rules - unless the pedestrian timed it deliberately to hit the cyclist then the rules we have now appear to be it’s the cyclist is responsible.
What happens if something a. Cyclist does causes a driver to die ? Same logic
What if a horse rider caused a motor cyclist to die
At least you've made that clear.
Welshbeef said:
Sorry I must have read the new rules wrong
Pedestrians are top of the tree
Cyclists are tier 1 and are responsible and accountable for pedestrians. … did you miss this change in the rules… whoops
The new rules merely clarify the the existing 'give way' system. It is not the Dutch system of 'strict liability', which is what you are suggesting.Pedestrians are top of the tree
Cyclists are tier 1 and are responsible and accountable for pedestrians. … did you miss this change in the rules… whoops
If a pedestrian was careless, didn't look, and stepped out in front of a bicycle who was unable to avoid them, it would still legally be the fault of the pedestrian.
If a cyclist rode straight out of a junction without looking and was hit by a car, it would legally be the fault of the cyclist, not the car driver.
As below:
"The Department for Transport says the changes are designed to make the roads safer for more vulnerable users but do not mean that pedestrians and cyclists have no responsibility"
this whole thread is hilarious. I think anyone who has been on a bike for a good amount of time and ridden on different types of roads will agree that these changes are good but deep down know well enough that majority will ignore them.
I used to commute in London every day by bike, from south Croydon to Paddington and did it for 4 years straight, saw the bad and the good. Any change improving vulnerable users safety is good. The number of drivers that think "teaching a lesson" to a vulnerable road user is OK is insane, I've been cut off, nearly hit etc multiple times because they felt I was in their way.
Funny enough I seem to have no problems getting around cyclists, waiting 20s behind one on a country lane etc. It's just part of being a careful decent human being. You wouldn't push an old lady out of the way in the supermarket if she was walking slower in front of you to teach her a "lesson" would you ? but it's ok to do it to someone who is on a different form of transport? Weird logic.
end of day you have idiots everywhere, on cycles, on bikes, pedestrians, cars, lorry drivers etc. Part of sharing the road with different types of people.
some of you just need to chill out behind the wheel and accept that roads are shared and not exclusive to you. Imagine hitting a cyclist and killing them or seriously injuring one? you'd have to live with it. It's crazy the amount of cars I see in front of PUSH/SQEEZE by a bicycle to just get in front of them to literally save a few seconds and then get stuck at a traffic light in front of them or at a junction.
rethink you driving, give it a go and take it easy and it'll soon click, it takes me little effort to be safe around cyclists. Lucky enough for me I've been exposed to "both" sides and know the dangers. I think a few of you would do good by jumping on the bike for a few miles a week and riding around, you'd soon learn to appreciate that extra 2-3 feet and do the same.
I used to commute in London every day by bike, from south Croydon to Paddington and did it for 4 years straight, saw the bad and the good. Any change improving vulnerable users safety is good. The number of drivers that think "teaching a lesson" to a vulnerable road user is OK is insane, I've been cut off, nearly hit etc multiple times because they felt I was in their way.
Funny enough I seem to have no problems getting around cyclists, waiting 20s behind one on a country lane etc. It's just part of being a careful decent human being. You wouldn't push an old lady out of the way in the supermarket if she was walking slower in front of you to teach her a "lesson" would you ? but it's ok to do it to someone who is on a different form of transport? Weird logic.
end of day you have idiots everywhere, on cycles, on bikes, pedestrians, cars, lorry drivers etc. Part of sharing the road with different types of people.
some of you just need to chill out behind the wheel and accept that roads are shared and not exclusive to you. Imagine hitting a cyclist and killing them or seriously injuring one? you'd have to live with it. It's crazy the amount of cars I see in front of PUSH/SQEEZE by a bicycle to just get in front of them to literally save a few seconds and then get stuck at a traffic light in front of them or at a junction.
rethink you driving, give it a go and take it easy and it'll soon click, it takes me little effort to be safe around cyclists. Lucky enough for me I've been exposed to "both" sides and know the dangers. I think a few of you would do good by jumping on the bike for a few miles a week and riding around, you'd soon learn to appreciate that extra 2-3 feet and do the same.
Edited by grudas on Thursday 27th January 09:57
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