Crap ford/vag cars/engines
Discussion
shoehorn said:
legless said:
The chain-drive 2.0 is a Ford 'Puma' engine - no PSA input. It was developed as part of the MK4 Transit vehicle programme.
No you are wrong,The first 2000-2003/4 Mondeo tdd/tdci`s and the Transits ran with 2 engine ecus,one a Delphi or Bosch 3 plug unit(Citroen/PSA)under the n/s headlight on the Mondeo and on the n/s bulk head on the transit which ran the fuelling,timing etc,the Ford(Black Oak unit for petrol engines on earlier Mondeo)ecu ran fans,cruise,a.c etc.Because when Ford adopted this engine they didnt have an ecu which could be reconfigured to run the PSA systems on the engine(until a bespoke unit was developed @ 2003/4).
The engine has Citroen badges stamped into some internals(cam sprockets spring to mind),there is a prominent PSA cast into the block on some ford versions and there are thousands of Citroen Relay and Peugeot vans with these engines fitted.
Citroen/PSA don`t buy diesel engines,they sell them and Ford are hardly likely to develope their own engine without any way of controlling it.
I ran 2 sets of 8 Mondeos,tddi and then tdci for my wifes company for years,I look after 3 Relay vans with these engines in for a dairy and could probably furnish you with a list of bits that are slightly different between the Citroen and the Ford version.
I reckon I could even probably recite many of the torque settings off the top of my head,if you like.
I have a few Mondeos myself and have changed,rebuilt and repaired many of these engines,there is one of the festering turds not ten foot from me on the floor,from one of my wifes old cars and I have probably forgot more about them than you will ever learn.
Citroen Relay engine 2.0/2.2
Mondeo/transit version.
It first appeared in the Transit and Mondeo in 2000.
Tell me, what year did it first appear in any Citroen? I would say around 2007 in the Relay.
BrownBottle said:
Yes all very interesting but legless is right, the original Puma engine was developed by Ford.
It first appeared in the Transit and Mondeo in 2000.
Tell me, what year did it first appear in any Citroen? I would say around 2007 in the Relay.
Indeed. I'd like to think that I speak with some authority here - I was a development engineer at Dagenham Diesel Centre in the early 2000s. It first appeared in the Transit and Mondeo in 2000.
Tell me, what year did it first appear in any Citroen? I would say around 2007 in the Relay.
The products we designed and engineered there with no PSA input were the 1.8 Lynx, the 2.0/2.2/2.4 chain-drive Puma, the 3.2 5-cyl Puma and the 2.7/3.0/3.6/4.4 Lion V6/V8 unit (although the Lion was a Ford/JLR joint effort)
Rickyy said:
I'm a fan of Ford, but like for like their engines always seem to have poor economy compared with their rivals.
.
Last two Mondeo ( think they were 2.0 L ) Diesels i hired were great on fuel , but poor acceleration even at 70 in sixth on the motorway. But then again, first Insignia was good on fuel and responsive. Last one was poorer on fuel and sluggish in the higher gears. .
It seems that the later marques of most diesels are getting away from the ideal .
legless said:
BrownBottle said:
Yes all very interesting but legless is right, the original Puma engine was developed by Ford.
It first appeared in the Transit and Mondeo in 2000.
Tell me, what year did it first appear in any Citroen? I would say around 2007 in the Relay.
Indeed. I'd like to think that I speak with some authority here - I was a development engineer at Dagenham Diesel Centre in the early 2000s. It first appeared in the Transit and Mondeo in 2000.
Tell me, what year did it first appear in any Citroen? I would say around 2007 in the Relay.
The products we designed and engineered there with no PSA input were the 1.8 Lynx, the 2.0/2.2/2.4 chain-drive Puma, the 3.2 5-cyl Puma and the 2.7/3.0/3.6/4.4 Lion V6/V8 unit (although the Lion was a Ford/JLR joint effort)
Sorry for slagging your engine
I'm not a fan although it was mostly the injection system that let them down IMO.BrownBottle said:
A load of old f
king bks
THE 2.0 LITRE CHAIN DRIVE DIESEL ENGINE IS DESIGNED,DERIVED OR DEVELOPED BY PSA/CITROEN,WORD IT HOWEVER IT SUITS YOU,THE FACT THAT IT APPEARED IN THE PEUGEOT/CITROEN VANS LATER THAN THE FORDS HAS THE SQUARE ROOT OFF fking bksk ALL NOTHING TO DO WITH IT,ABOUT THE SAME AS YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THESE ENGINES.AND YES IM SHOUTING!
OR ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT FORD BUILT AND DEVELOPED A DIESEL ENGINE AND THEN & YEARS LATER PSA DID ONE ALMOST IDENTICAL AND NO ONE RAISED AN EYEBROW AT FORD,GET A GRIP!
smart arse yeah,jog on prick!
shoehorn said:
THE 2.0 LITRE CHAIN DRIVE DIESEL ENGINE IS DESIGNED,DERIVED OR DEVELOPED BY PSA/CITROEN,WORD IT HOWEVER IT SUITS YOU,THE FACT THAT IT APPEARED IN THE PEUGEOT/CITROEN VANS LATER THAN THE FORDS HAS THE SQUARE ROOT OFF fk ALL NOTHING TO DO WITH IT,ABOUT THE SAME AS YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THESE ENGINES.
AND YES IM SHOUTING!
OR ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT FORD BUILT AND DEVELOPED A DIESEL ENGINE AND THEN & YEARS LATER PSA DID ONE ALMOST IDENTICAL AND NO ONE RAISED AN EYEBROW AT FORD,GET A GRIP!
smart arse yeah,jog on prick!
You should read Legless' reply before you make yourself look a bit silly.. oh. k ALL NOTHING TO DO WITH IT,ABOUT THE SAME AS YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THESE ENGINES.AND YES IM SHOUTING!
OR ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT FORD BUILT AND DEVELOPED A DIESEL ENGINE AND THEN & YEARS LATER PSA DID ONE ALMOST IDENTICAL AND NO ONE RAISED AN EYEBROW AT FORD,GET A GRIP!
smart arse yeah,jog on prick!
shoehorn said:
BrownBottle said:
A load of old fking bks
THE 2.0 LITRE CHAIN DRIVE DIESEL ENGINE IS DESIGNED,DERIVED OR DEVELOPED BY PSA/CITROEN,WORD IT HOWEVER IT SUITS YOU,THE FACT THAT IT APPEARED IN THE PEUGEOT/CITROEN VANS LATER THAN THE FORDS HAS THE SQUARE ROOT OFF fking bksk ALL NOTHING TO DO WITH IT,ABOUT THE SAME AS YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THESE ENGINES.AND YES IM SHOUTING!
OR ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL ME THAT FORD BUILT AND DEVELOPED A DIESEL ENGINE AND THEN & YEARS LATER PSA DID ONE ALMOST IDENTICAL AND NO ONE RAISED AN EYEBROW AT FORD,GET A GRIP!
smart arse yeah,jog on prick!
It was agreed between them in the mid 2000s that the Ford Puma engine would be the joint strategic engine for commercial vehicles, and the DW series to be used for passenger cars.
Yes shoehorn. There is a Ford engine in PSA vans. Sorry that it doesn't fit with your view of the world.
legless said:
It might have escaped your attention that Ford and PSA have a joint venture agreement for diesel engines.
It was agreed between them in the mid 2000s that the Ford Puma engine would be the joint strategic engine for commercial vehicles, and the DW series to be used for passenger cars.
Yes shoehorn. There is a Ford engine in PSA vans. Sorry that it doesn't fit with your view of the world.
Do you still work in the same field?It was agreed between them in the mid 2000s that the Ford Puma engine would be the joint strategic engine for commercial vehicles, and the DW series to be used for passenger cars.
Yes shoehorn. There is a Ford engine in PSA vans. Sorry that it doesn't fit with your view of the world.
Do you know if they are planning a DW/Puma replacement and whether it will be a 50/50 effort or will one company have more input on the design?
The PSA 2.0 HDI replaced the 1.9 XUD engine in the 306 around '99.
The 2.0 (DI?) appeared in the new shape Transit in 2000, replacing the old 2.5 from the smiley face Transit.
I don't know too much about the engines, but I can't imagine PSA would design two similar engines within a year of each other.
The 2.0 (DI?) appeared in the new shape Transit in 2000, replacing the old 2.5 from the smiley face Transit.
I don't know too much about the engines, but I can't imagine PSA would design two similar engines within a year of each other.
Rickyy said:
The PSA 2.0 HDI replaced the 1.9 XUD engine in the 306 around '99.
The 2.0 (DI?) appeared in the new shape Transit in 2000, replacing the old 2.5 from the smiley face Transit.
I don't know too much about the engines, but I can't imagine PSA would design two similar engines within a year of each other.
The joint venture came about because Ford needed a small capacity (1.4/1.6) diesel engine and PSA needed a large capacity V6 diesel engine. PSA was developing the DV4/DV6 engine and Ford was developing the Lion V6/V8/V10. Both had something the other wanted so the marriage was born.The 2.0 (DI?) appeared in the new shape Transit in 2000, replacing the old 2.5 from the smiley face Transit.
I don't know too much about the engines, but I can't imagine PSA would design two similar engines within a year of each other.
The fact remained though that they had both independently developed an engine in the 2.0L class. PSA's came from their EW/DW family, designed primarily for cars and having appropriate NVH characteristics. Ford's came from the new Puma family, designed as part of the Transit vehicle programme, having appropriate torque and durability characteristics (hence the 'DuraTorq' name).
So, Ford had an engine more suited to vans and PSA had an engine more suited to cars, hence the decision to extend the joint venture to include these engines.
The V10, sadly, was canned at the design stage.
BrownBottle said:
Do you still work in the same field?
Do you know if they are planning a DW/Puma replacement and whether it will be a 50/50 effort or will one company have more input on the design?
I do still work in the same field, but unfortunately it's for a manufacturer that is neither Ford nor PSA. I left Ford in 2008, so I'm not really sure what's on their roadmap any more.Do you know if they are planning a DW/Puma replacement and whether it will be a 50/50 effort or will one company have more input on the design?
The Ford "Puma" diesel was simply a Ford engine. The Citroen/Peugeot 2.2 is simply a Ford engine bolted into a PSA product. You dont think PSA spent millions developing the Puma diesel to sell it exclusively to Ford? I've been on more Ford courses about the Puma diesel than you have and as someone used to build them I think we can back up its a Ford diesel.
All Ford diesel engines are named i.e. the 1.8 TDCi in the Focus/Connect/Galaxy etc is a Lynx. The PSA engines are DV6, DW10 or DW12 etc.
I have to agree though the Puma diesel sucks!
All Ford diesel engines are named i.e. the 1.8 TDCi in the Focus/Connect/Galaxy etc is a Lynx. The PSA engines are DV6, DW10 or DW12 etc.
I have to agree though the Puma diesel sucks!
white_goodman said:
I thought the VAG and PSA diesels were pretty much the best "affordable" diesels out there. Certainly better than the Renault and Vauxhall diesels that I have experienced. I'm sure BMW diesels are pretty good too but not much experience of those.
Maybe BMW sixes, but the 2.0 N47 is horrible, I have to live with it every day 
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