111/30 - dangerous driving?
Discussion
keith2.2 said:
If it's still on the driving record (ie ban in the last 5 years or points in the last 3) then it shows form and character.
I was sufficiently told off a few years ago for "quite fast" in a 60. I was advised by my lawyer on the morning of the hearing that;
"The maximum penalty for the crime of "Speeding" is 56 day ban or 6 points. Should they decide on the day that they believe the speed and conditions warrant more than 6 points, or a ban greater than 56 days, then they can upgrade the charge to Dangerous Driving. This gives them much greater scope for punishment and can even include a custodial sentence."
Really? You can be charged with one thing, go to court and have your charge changed (upwards) on the day?I was sufficiently told off a few years ago for "quite fast" in a 60. I was advised by my lawyer on the morning of the hearing that;
"The maximum penalty for the crime of "Speeding" is 56 day ban or 6 points. Should they decide on the day that they believe the speed and conditions warrant more than 6 points, or a ban greater than 56 days, then they can upgrade the charge to Dangerous Driving. This gives them much greater scope for punishment and can even include a custodial sentence."
I'm aware that it can be downgraded (dangerous to careless) but not upgraded, which is why the CPS ten to be quite conservative - going for the prosecution they believe they can secure.
Vaud said:
Really? You can be charged with one thing, go to court and have your charge changed (upwards) on the day?
I'm aware that it can be downgraded (dangerous to careless) but not upgraded, which is why the CPS ten to be quite conservative - going for the prosecution they believe they can secure.
No, the charge can't be upgraded on the day. Most likely a misunderstanding of what was said.I'm aware that it can be downgraded (dangerous to careless) but not upgraded, which is why the CPS ten to be quite conservative - going for the prosecution they believe they can secure.
There's also no maximum length of ban for speeding. The sentencing guidelines do suggest a ban of up to 56 days when the speed falls into certain ranges, but the magistrates are free to impose a ban of longer than 56 days if the speed is higher than those bands (eg more than 110 in a 70 limit), or if there are other particularly strong aggravating factors.
Sorry, to clarify, I read hearing and thought trial/sentencing. I don't believe you can turn up on the day of trial and have the charge changed from speeding to dangerous driving and it go ahead that day.
What are the conditions under which the charge can be upgraded post plea hearing?
What are the conditions under which the charge can be upgraded post plea hearing?
agtlaw said:
tenpenceshort said:
No, the charge can't be upgraded on the day. Most likely a misunderstanding of what was said.
Wrong.tenpenceshort said:
Sorry, to clarify, I read hearing and thought trial/sentencing. I don't believe you can turn up on the day of trial and have the charge changed from speeding to dangerous driving and it go ahead that day.
What are the conditions under which the charge can be upgraded post plea hearing?
By hearing, i presumed the first hearing or not the trial. It's quite rare but i've seen it happen where CPS think the offence was under-charged and lay a new information at court. Defendant usually less than happy.What are the conditions under which the charge can be upgraded post plea hearing?
I had a client tell me that in a previous case, he was charged with careless, pleaded not guilty, then pros had a re-think and charged dangerous. He was then convicted of dangerous!
agtlaw said:
By hearing, i presumed the first hearing or not the trial. It's quite rare but i've seen it happen where CPS think the offence was under-charged and lay a new information at court. Defendant usually less than happy.
I had a client tell me that in a previous case, he was charged with careless, pleaded not guilty, then pros had a re-think and charged dangerous. He was then convicted of dangerous!
Ouch! I had a client tell me that in a previous case, he was charged with careless, pleaded not guilty, then pros had a re-think and charged dangerous. He was then convicted of dangerous!
ging84 said:
Is there a table like that for someone pleading guilty ?
All magistrates court sentencing guidelines are for a first time offender who pleads not guilty then is found guilty after trial. Plainly, a sentencing guideline wouldn't be needed for someone who is found not guilty.Separate guideline (tables) do not exist for first time offenders who plead guilty, 2nd, 3rd time offenders etc. There is a sentencing guidleline document for "reduction in sentence for a guilty plea" but the tables are not included.
In any event, the ancillary order (points or disqualification) isn't subject to a discount / credit for an early guilty plea. The sentence part (i.e the fine) is. The SGC position might not quite reflect what actually happens in court and it may be different in Scotland.
The scene of the crime.
The telephone exchange is on the left. Rotate 180 degrees and you can see the right hand NSL sign just beyond the last lamp standard. Go a bit further towards Menai Bridge and you will find speed camera warning signs in both directions. O'Grady is a local lad from Caernarfon, so he would know full well that he was going to get caught at some point. Idiot.
The telephone exchange is on the left. Rotate 180 degrees and you can see the right hand NSL sign just beyond the last lamp standard. Go a bit further towards Menai Bridge and you will find speed camera warning signs in both directions. O'Grady is a local lad from Caernarfon, so he would know full well that he was going to get caught at some point. Idiot.
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