Can I sue the dvla?
Discussion
Oilchange said:
As long as the neuro surgeon said go ahead and drive then I would carry the doctors paperwork with me until the DVLA can be bothered to post a letter, as long I had re-applied for the licence based on this medical evidence.
What would happen if I was quizzed by the police? I suspect it would be just a case of awaiting a piece of paper arriving in the post as opposed to not actually having a licence. Could be wrong but it makes sense to me.
If I went in front of a magistrate I would argue that the dvla can't restrict me from driving based on medical evidence as they aren't qualified in the field/haven't seen me/my records and I have medical evidence from a consultant stating I'm fit to drive.
I'm sure you mean well, but assuming his licence has been revoked (I'm sure he said he has), that is very poor advice.What would happen if I was quizzed by the police? I suspect it would be just a case of awaiting a piece of paper arriving in the post as opposed to not actually having a licence. Could be wrong but it makes sense to me.
If I went in front of a magistrate I would argue that the dvla can't restrict me from driving based on medical evidence as they aren't qualified in the field/haven't seen me/my records and I have medical evidence from a consultant stating I'm fit to drive.
Edited by Oilchange on Sunday 5th October 17:02
Not advice, just what I think I'd do.
If the licence is revoked on medical grounds and the doc has said he's fit what can the dvla say to counter it?
Can they continue to revoke it despite the Neuro surgeons recommendation? Are the DVLA Neurosurgeons? How would they justify revoking it otherwise? These are the questions I would ask, that's all.
If the licence is revoked on medical grounds and the doc has said he's fit what can the dvla say to counter it?
Can they continue to revoke it despite the Neuro surgeons recommendation? Are the DVLA Neurosurgeons? How would they justify revoking it otherwise? These are the questions I would ask, that's all.
Oilchange said:
Not advice, just what I think I'd do.
If the licence is revoked on medical grounds and the doc has said he's fit what can the dvla say to counter it?
Can they continue to revoke it despite the Neuro surgeons recommendation? Are the DVLA Neurosurgeons? How would they justify revoking it otherwise? These are the questions I would ask, that's all.
It is revoked until they re-issue it.If the licence is revoked on medical grounds and the doc has said he's fit what can the dvla say to counter it?
Can they continue to revoke it despite the Neuro surgeons recommendation? Are the DVLA Neurosurgeons? How would they justify revoking it otherwise? These are the questions I would ask, that's all.
I've been here, twice, I know what you mean, but driving whilst your licence is revoked is worse than driving whilst disqualified.
The medical people at the DVLA are the one's that will decide if/when your licence is to be returned, his, mine, or your, medical team(s) have a very large input to that, but the decision rests with either the courts or the DVLA panel.
So the DVLA have medical teams? I just wondered how they can legally/medically make the call to withhold the licence. It's like them not sending your licence through (for a while) after a ban, it's not like they can extend a court ban after all.
Edited by Oilchange on Sunday 5th October 19:53
Oilchange said:
So the DVLA have medical teams? I just wonder how they can legally/medically make the call to withhold the licence. It's like them not sending your licence through (for a while) after a ban, it's not like they can extend a court ban after all.
I have a friend they did that to, seriously.Anyway, it is DVLA's responsibility to issue the licence (I am truly not defending them here, they are/can be an absolute pain in the arse).
If their medical panel choose to go against the wishes the recommendations of your/mine/anyones medical team, you cannot just drive.
Once your licence is revoked on medical grounds you mustn't drive again until DVLA say you can, your only redress that I know of is through the courts.
crikey said:
grumpy52 said:
I think people continue to drive because nobody , especially the medical profession, have told them not to.
I'm pretty sure the medical profession can't tell anyone not to, they can only advise. They're also not allowed to tell the DVLA anything, which is where the problem is with regards to those that shouldn't be on the road.It's all done in Swansea's time frame which can be glacial. As far as I can see the final decision rests with a DVLA 'manager' who may not be medically qualified. He/she doesn't have to accept the findings of your GP/consultant either.
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthr...
http://www.motordefencelawyers.co.uk/motoring-offe...
I am all for getting potentially unfit drivers off the road but I don't have a lot of confidence in any process this unaccountable Agency has jurisdiction over.
Red Devil,
DVLA have their own panel of medical experts made up of doctors who make the decision to revoke based on medical evidence and any questionnaire provided by the driver or their doctor.
Hi Chilli,
First of all, sorry to hear about this. In my experience getting your MP involved is the best thing you can do to speed up the process at the DVLA. Despite an 'eight week backlog' that you will be told about if you phone Drivers Medical Group, I reapplied on 19/8 and wrote to my MP on the same date. DVLA wrote to my neurologist promptly and he had responded by 15/9. I rang DVLA on 22/9 who told me my licence was in the post and I received it back by 24/9. Having your MP involved makes a massive difference.
As far as risk of any episode of seizure is concerned, the 12 month waiting rule will apply and DVLA are following their prescribed guidelines. That said, there is a way forward for you. You need to ask your neurologist to consider the per annum risk of seizure. If the neurologist's professional opinion is that you have a good prognosis and are low risk then the DVLA in line with their own guidelines may allow an earlier reapplication.
See here https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
From page 10
"The following features are consistent with a person having a good prognosis:
No relevant structural abnormality of the brain on imaging;
No definite epileptiform activity on EEG;
Support of the neurologist;
Seizure risk considered to be 2% or less per annum for vocational licensing
and 20% or less per annum for ordinary driving licensing."
You need to qualify all four statements above with your consultant. Good luck and I hope this helps you
DVLA have their own panel of medical experts made up of doctors who make the decision to revoke based on medical evidence and any questionnaire provided by the driver or their doctor.
Hi Chilli,
First of all, sorry to hear about this. In my experience getting your MP involved is the best thing you can do to speed up the process at the DVLA. Despite an 'eight week backlog' that you will be told about if you phone Drivers Medical Group, I reapplied on 19/8 and wrote to my MP on the same date. DVLA wrote to my neurologist promptly and he had responded by 15/9. I rang DVLA on 22/9 who told me my licence was in the post and I received it back by 24/9. Having your MP involved makes a massive difference.
As far as risk of any episode of seizure is concerned, the 12 month waiting rule will apply and DVLA are following their prescribed guidelines. That said, there is a way forward for you. You need to ask your neurologist to consider the per annum risk of seizure. If the neurologist's professional opinion is that you have a good prognosis and are low risk then the DVLA in line with their own guidelines may allow an earlier reapplication.
See here https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
From page 10
"The following features are consistent with a person having a good prognosis:
No relevant structural abnormality of the brain on imaging;
No definite epileptiform activity on EEG;
Support of the neurologist;
Seizure risk considered to be 2% or less per annum for vocational licensing
and 20% or less per annum for ordinary driving licensing."
You need to qualify all four statements above with your consultant. Good luck and I hope this helps you
Edited by texasjohn on Sunday 5th October 20:58
The Secretary of State for Transport acting through the medical advisers at the Drivers Medical Group, DVLA, has the responsibility to ensure that all licence holders are fit to drive. The DMG are apparently all fully qualified - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
The issue is whether they agree with your GP/consultant. They don't have to. You know how high-and-mighty some in the medical profession can be. It could depend on how persuasive (and qualified) the faceless ones think the person arguing your case is. At the end of the day the DVLA has the final say whether you get your licence back. The only way of overturning their decision is to go to court. If your entire livelihood depends on it and you have a compelling enough case you may think it is worth the candle.
The issue is whether they agree with your GP/consultant. They don't have to. You know how high-and-mighty some in the medical profession can be. It could depend on how persuasive (and qualified) the faceless ones think the person arguing your case is. At the end of the day the DVLA has the final say whether you get your licence back. The only way of overturning their decision is to go to court. If your entire livelihood depends on it and you have a compelling enough case you may think it is worth the candle.
Red Devil said:
The Secretary of State for Transport acting through the medical advisers at the Drivers Medical Group, DVLA, has the responsibility to ensure that all licence holders are fit to drive. The DMG are apparently all fully qualified - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
The issue is whether they agree with your GP/consultant. They don't have to. You know how high-and-mighty some in the medical profession can be. It could depend on how persuasive (and qualified) the faceless ones think the person arguing your case is. At the end of the day the DVLA has the final say whether you get your licence back. The only way of overturning their decision is to go to court. If your entire livelihood depends on it and you have a compelling enough case you may think it is worth the candle.
Quite well put, although they will listen to the opinion of your consultant and review their position as and when additional medical evidence is presented they don't have to change their decision.The issue is whether they agree with your GP/consultant. They don't have to. You know how high-and-mighty some in the medical profession can be. It could depend on how persuasive (and qualified) the faceless ones think the person arguing your case is. At the end of the day the DVLA has the final say whether you get your licence back. The only way of overturning their decision is to go to court. If your entire livelihood depends on it and you have a compelling enough case you may think it is worth the candle.
They didn't in my case, FWIW.
Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts and input, it really is appreciated
The MP seems genuinely helpful and has wrote to Mr S Thomas, (head of dvla medical dept) expressing his concerns over my case, and the decision to overrule my neuro consultant. Fingers crossed I guess, but this is my best hope currently.
If this fails, I would consider the magistrates route but am sure this would be costly and after 5 months now of no work sadly the money tree is showing signs of autumn.
I just want to go back to the job I love and earn my own money again.
The MP seems genuinely helpful and has wrote to Mr S Thomas, (head of dvla medical dept) expressing his concerns over my case, and the decision to overrule my neuro consultant. Fingers crossed I guess, but this is my best hope currently.
If this fails, I would consider the magistrates route but am sure this would be costly and after 5 months now of no work sadly the money tree is showing signs of autumn.
I just want to go back to the job I love and earn my own money again.
Chilli - Might be if some relevance/use to you:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37703036
Major failings n DVLA medical fitness to drive cases
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37703036
Major failings n DVLA medical fitness to drive cases
elanfan said:
Trixxz said:
Threads been dead since 2014 folks
What's that got to do with anything Chilli has still not got his licence back!
Todays news does throw a new slant on it, and although not particularly hopeful I will certainly have another go at them, its not like I have anything to lose. I've seen the BBC link and Daily Express links posted here, if anyone has any others I'd be grateful if they would post them here. The following comments are from Oliver Morley the DVLA Chief Exec. "We are very sorry for the way we handled the customers cases highlighted in the report. These 8 very high complex cases however date back to 2009 and since then the vast majority of the four million cases we've handled have been dealt with swiftly and correctly. We have already made a number of improvements including more effective ways of managing cases, taking on more staff and introduced a new online service where drivers tell us more about their medical conditions."
Hmmmmm, I doubt anything he, or anyone at the medical board says. Prior to today's findings, they had always appeared to be nothing but antiquated and pathetic in all areas and their lack of understanding of individuals cases, or their ability to communicate "swiftly" if at all in relation to an individuals case proves that today's findings do finally seem to carry some weight.
So where do I go with it now? I will spend the next couple of nights trying to get anymore info I can on the ombudsman's findings and then I will again contact my MP for another crack at this as well as writing to the Minister of Transport, Oliver Morley and the DVLA Medical panel, for what they are worth? Are there any other avenues that people think I should try?
It still frustrates me so much the actual specific reason that they use to keep my licence revoked. They say that because of the injuries I sustained they feel I am more than a 2% seizure risk, and until a medical professional can guarantee that they can 100% prove I fall below the 2% risk, my licence will stay revoked. Both my GP and my neuro consultant disagree with the panel, but the panel over rules them every time. Ironic that still to this day, I have never had a seizure in my life and have been clear of any brain injuries for over 2 years now. Amazing really considering how many times I've banged my head against a brick wall when dealing with these idiots.
They have no idea, and I'm sure wouldn't care on the impact on my life their decisions and rulings have had.
Oh well, still breathing so grateful for that, but a bit of justice would be very, very nice.
Slidingpillar said:
skatty said:
I was always under the understanding that after your licence was revoked, you were not allowed to drive until you had the licence back in your hand!
Which is why, if you need to, you should voluntarily surrender your licence, as then I believe you can re-start driving as soon as the application is made. Now they've cancelled the licence, you need the replacement in your hand before you can restart.My guess is this is either a time-line thing, or they've mis-understood what the consultant said. Do you have an email path to the consultant? Do you know the name of his secretary etc? Because resolving this the first steps are either finding out the time line, or what he actually said.
Just to cover myself, I attended a local police station, and asked them to run a check on my license to see if the computer had been updated - which it had... if it was ever altered in the first place.
In both cases, the letter revoking my license arrived 12 months after the alleged cause of it being revoked, which led me to suspect they only updated their systems every twelve months!
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